Township Council Minutes
September 10, 2002
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council
was called to order at 7:31 pm by Council President Scapicchio
with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
MOMENT OF REFLECTION
President Scapicchio: If everyone would just join us. At
these Public Meetings, we now do a moment of reflection
of the men and women fighting terrorism and defending the
freedom that we all enjoy.
OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT ANNOUNCEMENT
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice
of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle
and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted
at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting
ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum,
Mrs. Miller (left at 10 pm), Mr. Perkins, Mr. Spino, President
Also in attendance: Mayor Licitra, Cynthia Spencer, Business
Administrator, John Dorsey, Township Attorney, Lisa Lashway,
President Scapicchio: That brings us to the first public
comment period of this evening. For those of you who aren't
frequent attendees at these public meetings, we have two
public portions, one at the beginning and one at the end.
Is there anyone wishing to address the Council or the Mayor
on any issue?
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD
Pat Fiedler, 24 Flanders Rd., Budd Lake: A while back,
about 18 months ago or maybe 2 years ago when they were
talking about how they were going to irrigate the fields
at Turkey Brook, I came in and I asked how they were going
to do it and they said that they were going to use the wells
down behind the Chester Stephens School which was going
to be their source of water to irrigate. Now, about four
weeks ago, they placed an 827 foot well right up towards
Sunset Drive and Flanders Road. This was okayed by everyone
on the Council with the exception of Mrs. Miller, I believe.
There is 50 foot of casing in it and I think it is a 20
inch hole. I talked to several well drillers in the last
week and they asked me how the wells were in that area and
they told me that this will significantly affect the water
especially if they are going to irrigate a number of fields.
I tried to find out through different sources how much water
it would take to do a soccer field. They would say on the
order of 20,000 gallons a day for one field. On the 15th
of September they are supposed to sod and I don't know if
this has been changed or not. This is putting us in a very
precarious situation. My wife, just like everyone on Sunset
Drive and Flanders Road are winding up at the washeteria.
We are doing things that don't take water. We are taking
our air conditioners and putting a little hole in it and
letting it drip in to get a bucket of water so we can water
our plants. I called the EPA this past week twice. I talked
to two different people there and they said that no new
construction should be using that much water or any kind
of water. If you had the football fields and the baseball
fields, you should be able to water them because they are
already in existence. I don't believe the sod is down. I
was over there yesterday and the sod is not down yet on
the fields from what I can see. It is on the apron around
the pond and that sod is dying. You are putting us in a
very precarious situation. I know this is not going to stop
but what I'm asking for is this, that you as a Council have
to come up with either another type of plan if in fact we
lose all the water that is on Sunset Drive. Most of the
wells are under 100 feet, mine is 65, a lot of them are
around 69, 70, 80 feet. I haven't heard of anyone who has
a 100 foot well up there. I had well work done two weeks
ago because my pump burned out. I had the guy check it and
he said that I was getting water at about 32 feet. That
is what he told me so if you are going to be pumping that
much water, which I'm only going on figures that I researched
on by talking to different people who do sodding and we're
talking about big fields. We're not talking about a lawn.
They're telling me that that is going to significantly change
the water level in all of those wells. Those wells were
fine when they were dug. We are in a different situation.
We are in a drought and we're asking for you to use your
heads and use common sense. If we have to conserve, then
you guys are going to have to find some way of either putting
this off or seeding it and waiting for the rains to come
or something like that because I'm not going through what
I went through with my septic system. I put in my septic
system two years before the sewers came in because I couldn't
get an approval from the Town to just run a leech field.
I'm not going through this again. If we have no water, that
means you can't stay in your house. It's a health issue.
People have to address this. Obviously it wasn't thought
about, it wasn't addressed. Anybody's legacy should not
hang on this.
Mr. Guenther: Mr. Fiedler, I live right down the block
from you. I live on Carson Road. I have a well and I'm very
concerned about it. This is the way it was explained to
us. The Engineer is here and our Director of Public Works,
correct me if I'm wrong about anything I'm going to say.
The well that is being drilled is how many feet deep? 850
feet deep. If the wells are of that depth, 50, 60, 70, 80,
100 feet, you are drawing off the top. That well that is
being drilled, in fact, if anything, you are going to be
effecting possibly the well down below but 800 feet below
you are drawing from a different aquifer.
Mr. Fiedler: It has to do with the casing. The casing is
Mr. Guenther: I'm not an expert so I'll let Mr. Buczynski
Mr. Buczynski: Can I address the concerns? I was aware
of the concerns today and let me just address a few things,
sir. First, you mentioned about a 20 inch hole. I don't
know who gave you that information. It is a six inch hole,
six inch diameter. Just to get that straight. It is 872
Mr. Fiedler: I was given the figure of 827 feet.
Mr. Buczynski: It's 872 feet deep. The first 27 feet, when
they drilled the well, it was stony and sandy clay material.
From 27 to 872 feet there was granite. Water does not enter
that well until a depth of 125 feet. There is rhyme or reason
why they did what they did. By DEP regulations you are supposed
to have at least 50 feet of casing. Water can't get in and
doesn't enter that well between 15 and 125 feet. There is
no reason why you would put additional casing and drill
additional casing into that well since it is solid granite
rock and there are no fissures, no water is entering that
area. Water doesn't enter that well until a depth of 125
feet deep and it is a trickle. The next time water comes
in is at 295 feet and then water comes in at 447 feet. The
static level of the water in the well is 35 feet, and that
is because the hydrostatic pressure, capillary action, because
the water there starts pushing up. The well pump is going
to be set at a depth of 350-400 feet. That's where the pump
is going to be set. What happens, you're really in a different
base where you are getting water. You are getting water
in an upper area in the neighborhood of 30-40 feet. That's
where a lot of people are getting their water. That's probably
where a lot of people have their pumps set at. This water
is going to be at a whole different location. We did ask
also regarding the wells behind Chester Stephens School.
The concern there was mainly to transfer that water up to
the detention basin area and the cost involved in that.
It would make a lot more sense to get the water closer by.
They've drilled the one well, and as you know, they only
got 35 gallons per minute. There is another well going to
be drilled on the other side of the park by the football
field and hopefully we'll get more water there. If we get
55 gallons, that's what we need, we won't even utilize the
well adjacent to Sunset Drive next to the detention basin.
So there is a good possibility in two or three weeks, we
might not have to use that well at all. As far as we are
concerned, speaking to our well driller also, and looking
what is happening out there, we don't really see where there
would be a problem. I understand the concern. I know you've
had problems over the years with the shallow wells on Sunset
Mr. Fiedler: Most of the wells, that was sufficient at
that time. That was the standard, my house was built back
in 1939. The thing is, why, I talked to three well drillers
and they all told me the same thing, that it will, over
a period of time, it will markedly affect it, especially
if they are using a lot of water because there is going
to be a certain amount that goes into the air, some of it
is going back into the ground but the situation that we
are in right now, it is dry.
Mr. Buczynski: I'm not sure what well drillers you spoke
to, I'm not sure if they saw the log and they knew how this
well was constructed because you can't really comment on
how you are going to get the water and how the well is going
to perform if you haven't seen the well logs.
Mr. Fiedler: I'm just going by the phone calls that I made.
What about the question of watering, about new construction.
What are the regulations.
Mr. Buczynski: Lawn watering is allowed between 5 to 9
am and 5 to 8 pm on new sod or seed. New construction may
water daily for 45 days after planting. That is per DEP
regulations, current drought regulations.
Mr. Fiedler: Current drought regulations say you can water
for 45 days?
Mr. Buczynski: Yes, sir, that is what I'm telling you.
Mr. Fiedler: I'm telling you right now, what's your name?
Mr. Buczynski: My name is Gene Buczynski. I'm quoting the
regs from the internet.
Mr. Fiedler: Okay, I'm going to write that down.
President Scapicchio: Charlene, you wanted to comment?
Mrs. Miller: Yes. I'd like to ask our Administration if
indeed the residents on Sunset or Flanders Road do have
a problem with wells going dry, I think it is going to be
pretty obvious if someone's well goes dry, one or two people,
we've got a problem and what kind of plan do we have in
place if this does indeed happen? Obviously they are going
to need some type of community support.
Mr. Dorsey: Let me say this. We understand, we at the table
understand that we have to and in good faith are guided
by the advice that we receive from Mr. Buczynski and I know
that other Council meetings this issue has been addressed.
We have all been led to believe, I think it's a fair statement,
that the drilling of these wells to service the new Turkey
Brook athletic complex would not interfere with adjoining
wells and there is certain logic to the statements that
were made but we know that even the best hydrologist may
err and if they err, I would be very much inclined to say
that if, as a result of the pumping of significant amounts
of water from these wells that have been drilled at Turkey
Brook Park, the Township would have a responsibility to
these homeowners if indeed it essentially causes their wells
to go dry. That will be an interesting analysis in and of
itself because as I understand it, a lot of these homeowners
have had problems with their wells before the wells at Turkey
Brook were drilled but I assume that if we get into significant
pumping of water and suddenly we have a whole series of
these wells go dry, that's going to be the proof in the
pudding and at that point I would think that the Township
would have to respond in one fashion or another because
it seems to be equitable that one property owner can destroy
the value that the adjoining property owners have by simply
sucking out all the water in that particular aquifer. We
don't believe that that is going to happen. You've heard
Mr. Buczynski. He's been with the Township for almost 20
years and we rely upon him for a lot of things and we do
believe that there is certain logic in what he says. The
proof in the pudding would be what happens when the water
commences to be pumped out.
Mr. Fiedler: But to date, you have no alternate plan if
that does happen?
Mr. Dorsey: Excuse me. No water has yet been pumped out.
I think in the interim the Administration is going to have
to come up with an alternate plan, at least, a temporary
plan as to what they would do immediately if these supposed
adverse effects occur. It probably would be a short term
response and in the end it would have to be a long term
response in terms of providing water for you people. Maybe
a whole new water system up there connected to these very
deep wells. I think that is where we are and I think you
are right to ask the Administration to begin to develop
a response if everything goes wrong.
Mr. Fiedler: I think that before all this was even looked
at maybe there should have been a call to come up with some
auxiliary plan or some kind of emergency fall back plan
if this did, in fact, happen. Not everyone has an 150 foot
well or a 200 foot well. Most of them in that area up there
of older homes are all around 65 to 70 foot range.
Mr. Dorsey: I understand what you are saying and I'm sure
the Administrator has heard what I've said and is how about
to begin to prepare that alternate plan.
Mr. Fiedler: Okay, as long as it is on the record.
Mr. Buczynski: One possibility for us would be to stop
pumping out of that well. It would recover and then the
question is what would you do at that point. I really don't
think that is going to happen but
Mr. Dorsey: I don't think you should try and give the answer
now. I think they are entitled to you giving this some analysis
to how you would respond and not try and do it right off
the top of your head now. It's a serious matter and you
should give it some thought.
Mr. Rattner: Gene, when we talked about this a month or
two ago and we were talking about the wells, I was asking
at what point to we get an approval from the DEP to actually
use it because there are certain tests. Remember I asked
about when we do the draw down test because there is a 24
hour period where you have to heavily pump, or some period,
that you heavily pump the water and then you check the other
wells close by to see if there was a draw down to see if
there were any problems.
Mr. Buczynski: There is no DEP approval required for the
amount of water that we are going to be pumping out. It
is less than 100,000 gallons. There is no allocation permit.
There is no 72 hour pump tests required for this type of
situation. What they did do, they pumped it for four hours
to determine what the pumping rate would be. That's what
they've done. We did not require them to do a 72 hour pump
Mr. Dorsey: That's correct, Steve. If you are not pumping
more than 100,000 gallons, you don't have to get an allocation
Mr. Rattner: We have a lot of wells, in fact, I believe
a well behind my house was dug, Country Oaks, how deep is
Mrs. Miller: About 500 feet.
Mr. Rattner: That was right in my back yard and there was
the same fear. Remember they did the test because they also
put in the standpipe and I'd imagine that around town most
of the wells, and in fact, that is probably a requirement
for developer's that they have to go down that far because
what you are trying to avoid is hurting anyone else's water.
I'm on a well. Everyone around me has a water system that
they are taking all the water out so I have the same concern.
Mr. Buczyski: Country Oaks had a different situation because
it was a non public community water system and it requires
certain permits from DEP. It's a little different situation.
Mr. Rattner: I'm just saying about the point about other
wells going that deep. Most of the developers that are putting
in well are putting in those deep wells and that is a requirement
so that it doesn't effect shallower wells but I can understand
the people on the street and we've discussed this before,
their general concerns because I know I live on Goldmine
Road. I have the water tower in my back yard. I'd love to
hook into it but it's the same thing, wondering what is
going to happen. My well is only about 65 to 70 feet.
Mr. Greenbaum: Very briefly, I think what John said really
sums up what needs to be done and what was done. I think
you should know that all of the Council members were concerned
when this issue was raised as to how it would affect the
adjacent homeowners. It was something which was discussed
at length and we took as much information as we could before
we made the decision to move forward with it and I agree
with everything that John said with regard to coming up
with a contingency in the event that whoever gave us the
information was wrong, which I don't believe will happen,
but this was an issue which was discussed and which was
of the utmost importance to everyone on Council.
Mr. Fiedler: The thing is that we are conserving right
now. We are conserving and if we have to conserve, the Council
has to conserve too. It doesn't stop with us. We are not
serfs. Thank you.
David Pariseau, 7 Sunset Dr.: I think something that could
very easily take care of a lot of the questions or concerns
where you mentioned about the static level. Is the Township
opposed to conducting static level tests on a few of the
surrounding wells? I was also in contact with a couple of
well drillers this morning and they said that the static
level would be affected quite quickly if the draw down from
a significantly deeper well would affect it. This is something
that is basically measuring the standing water where it
sits right now. This well is approximately 400 feet from
my well and believe me, I listened to it for four days when
they were drilling it. You said that the static level was
35 feet. The static level of my well as of today is 32 feet.
Our well is 69 feet deep. The pump is set at 41 foot. I
got a brand new pump about two years ago. It is something
that is very simple to do, not very expensive but I think
it would show if a well does show signs during the first
preliminary pumping, it would behoove the Township to do
that and it would also enforce
Mr. Dorsey: Well the first thing that you have to understand
is that your static level has nothing to do with the static
level that is in the wells drilled at Turkey Brook Park.
It may be at the same distance down but they are not related.
At least the experts would say that they are not related.
Gene, can you make that test?
Mayor Licitra: I don't know if I was sitting on Sunset
Drive if I would feel comfortable. I would question what
we are doing because, face it, you need your water. There
is no doubt about it but we are going to try and make you
as comfortable as we possibly could. The fact is that what
Mr. Buczynski said is true. We will try and do everything
we possibly could, not to alleviate your fears, but to make
them a little less. At that point we will come back to you
within the next week or two with a plan.
Mr. Buczynski: Let me just add, Mayor, we are going to
investigate the possibility of getting someone out there
to do a test if you'll give us permission to observe your
well and maybe we'll try and get a couple of more wells.
We'll just investigate getting somebody out there and the
cost and see if we can look into that.
Mayor Licitra: I think after that maybe what we should
try and do is not to have misinformation given out is, what
we will do at that point is we will put Mr. Buczynski's
statements in writing and try and give it out to as many
people around the Sunset Drive area and our findings at
Mr. Pariseau: This was the first time I heard where water
enters the well, which I was never familiar with until this
morning. It's definitely not my trade.
President Scapicchio: Gene, you'll certainly make the results
of that test and that analysis available at a Council workshop
or Council public meeting?
Mr. Buczynski: Yes, we just have to find out who we can
get to do it as far as the well driller or pumping firm
and see what the cost is and get back to the Administration
and see when we can schedule it.
Dave Tomb, 84 Sandshore Road: As you all very well aware,
we had another sewer spill. As a matter of fact, we had
two of them within a given week and I'm not sure of all
of the facts and causes of all this. I just want to draw
your attention to a letter that was written on behalf of
the Lake Association. I personally wrote the letter but
the entire committee is the ones who stood behind it. It
is dated August 21, 1999, and it addresses the concerns
that we had. In general, we feel that the public doesn't
know when we have a problem with the Lake. We suggested
that not only signs be put out where the problem is but
they be put out throughout the entire Lake, at Marinas,
the property owners, where the launching ramps are. There
were people out there this past weekend after all this spill
that had no idea what was going on. When somebody stops
them and tells them, hey, by the way, they are grotesquely
appalled. It's a blunt way to put it. Something needs to
be done. Apparently we did not learn. There are some of
you that were on the Council at the time in 1999 and then
there are others of you and certainly we've switched Administrations
at that point. We also asked that ongoing testing be done
periodically throughout the Lake, not just certain areas,
for instance, where the beach is. That is the primary concern
because it is open to the public, but guess what, so are
the Marinas. It is my understanding that when we had the
spill, that the testing was done in the local area where
the spill came into the Lake, not the rest of the Lake.
So they only posted signs near where the spill entered the
Lake. Well, it enters the Lake in one spot and it's got
to go out in another spot which means that stuff travels
with it. It's going to effect people all around the Lake.
Is there any preventative maintenance, booms, I don't know,
I'm not qualified in this area but is there something that
can be done when we have a problem, people who are on call
who can react instanteously. I'm on call 24 hours a day
7 days a week. That's the profession I chose to be in. Somebody
.we chose to have sewers around the Lake, why
collect all of the sewage out of the entire down so that
we can dump it in the Lake? We are having more pollution
on a concentrated effort here then if you had little bits
seeping in around with the septic tanks we had. I know there
is an alarm. Several times I've heard the alarm go off because
I live near that last pump house and I've called the Police
Department and most of the time they are aware of it. Some
of the time, they are not. What's wrong with the alarm system?
Again, I don't know what the causes were of what happened
this past week but nonetheless, we need immediate action.
When there is a problem, we need someone to come out there,
figure out what to do, what to remediate so that it doesn't
enter the Lake or control it so that very little enters
the Lake and then you don't have to post the signs. We have
some of our other members here. Doesn't anybody else want
to add anything?
Mayor Licitra: Could we deal with something? You made two
statements so maybe we'll deal with each one of them. Frank,
would you come here and deal with that, please? Come up
and sit over here.
Mrs. Miller: This is the public portion. Why do we have
our experts taking up the public portion? I think the public
should have the
President Scapicchio: Charlene, I think the public will
have an opportunity to speak on any issues as long as they
like. The Mayor would like our Health Officer to address
some of the questions addressed by the public and I think
that is appropriate.
Mrs. Miller: I would like to hear all the public first
and then listen to our professionals on this particular
President Scapicchio: We have a member of the public who
has posed a question to the Administration. This is the
first, tonight is the first official notification that this
Council has received in regards to the specifics of this
sewer back up and blockage and leakage into Budd Lake. I
think it is appropriate that we hear from the Health Officer.
Frank? Mayor, is that what you want?
Mayor Licitra: Absolutely. I don't want to get convoluted
with four or five other questions. I don't want to answer
two at a time. You don't mind do you? Okay, thank you.
Frank Wilpert, Health Officer: Well in order to understand
what happened, there is a report that was filed by Mrs.
Spencer regarding the incidents. We had a meeting about
it, Dave, and you are right. There are certain things that
we've identified as being deficient and one of those is
that we need to get a better handle on our communication
network. We need to really develop that. A lot of things
were discussed in terms of developing an early warning system
or some type of a flagging system. Quite frankly, the Town
doesn't have in place, or Mr. Wilpert(cont'd): doesn't have
the capability to do a mass communication network, notification.
It becomes very difficult and it breaks down because one
of the problems is that we need to identify the players
in that communication network. In Mrs. Spencer's report,
she outlines that very specifically as to what we discussed.
Maybe that is something that we need to put into the record
in terms of how this incident occurred, who responded at
what point and deficiencies were, what we found to be and
what recommendations we would make from the Administrative
point of view as to how we could correct that and how we
start interfacing a more comprehensive network. That's the
best way that I can look at, based on what happened before
to what happened now. That communication network still needs
to be put in place.
Mr. Tomb: Again, I go back to the first big spill that
we had and that, specifically, was addressed in the letter
and I do remember comments were made that we need to put
a communication network together. Realizing that the Administration
has changed, people have changed offices and whatever have,
apparently we didn't learn from that one and here we go
again. There are comments since the sewer system was put
in, since the efforts to clean up the Lake, that the Lake
is getting better. It is getting clearer. The fish are coming
back. They are stocking it again and now all of a sudden
we have a series of problems. This one we are addressing
right now is a sewer problem and we didn't learn from the
first one. We didn't take action. That is probably a better
term. We didn't take action from the first time that it
happened. What does it take before we do take that action?
That is my concern. What are we going to learn from it and
what are the changes that we are going to make. Okay, I
guess agree. You've identified the actions that you've taken.
You've identified the deficiencies that you have but I'd
like to see, on behalf of the Association, the changes that
you are going to put in place to address those concerns
and the action plan that is going to enforce that and I'd
be more than happy if you would send that to my home address.
Mr. Wilpert: I think what we need to do now, Cindy, is
refer to your report because you provide that in that report
based on our meeting and discussions in terms of the deficiencies
and what needs to be done. I think if you hear this report
and get a copy of it, I think it will begin to start to
allay some of your concerns, address some of your concerns
and plus, start moving the ball forward because by and large
the communication now, although not 100 percent perfect,
was better than it was three years ago because there was
zero communication at that point. There is some communication
that is going on now, albeit, it's not up to the level that
it should be and I think that is where we need input from
the Association and your membership as to how you want to
present that and make it something that can be a model to
Mr. Tomb: I'd welcome the opportunity to do that.
Mr. Wilpert: You might want to read the report or if you
have a copy of that report, you can certainly highlight
Mrs. Spencer: Dave, would you be willing to sit down with
us one afternoon and talk about identifying who would be
the contacts. There is no way we have the resources to go
home by home nor to post every single establishment when
one of these things occurs. With the spill on Labor Day,
we did do some posting but it was only in certain establishments
within where the Health Officer had determined that the
spill was contained. Obviously, you have concerns about
that and I can understand that everyone would like to know
what went on and then you can make your own independent
judgments about whether or not you are going to do boating
or whatever but we do need the input as to who could be
the points that we could get the information out to because
we do have limited resources and we cannot go door to door
advising people along the Lake.
Mr. Tomb: As I said, the Association would welcome the
opportunity to work with the Town. Our biggest issue is
the time with scheduling with trying to meet with you to
go over this. If we can work out something that is amicable,
I'd be more than happy to give you my work number, even
my work email, my home email, whatever, but on a regular
basis it is very difficult for a lot of us to get here during
business hours. We do most of our work on the evenings and
Mr. Wilpert: That's not a problem. We need to just identify
some dates in the future.
Mr. Tomb: I don't think that would be a problem and our
President over there is shaking his head, yes, we can go
Mr. Wilpert: Just a comment. Over the course of the past
few years and particular subsequent to the dredging that
went on and the revitalization of the Lake and so on. Our
beach has been in really phenomenal shape as compared to
I say beach, I mean the municipal beach, but obviously we
are talking about expanding the monitoring but over the
past at least two years now since we've been sampling, those
samples have been well within, well below the State standard.
We had one situation where we had a heavy rain and we had
an overage but it was not that far over but the following
day when we took samples again, it was fine. We've been
Mr. Wilpert (cont'): averaging anywhere between 10 to 70
on a hot day. Given the fact that we've had a drought condition,
where very little water is coming from the surface into
the Lake to move this. It's been phenomenal.
Mr. Tomb: And I agree but all of a sudden we have this
influx. One little incident is going to destroy all the
records that we've made so far.
Mr. Wilpert: I might add also that we did do some sampling
yesterday following up as a result of the spill and the
samples, I have the results here. I can certainly give you
a copy. I think I gave the membership some information and
I went over it briefly with them. The numbers look good.
What we talked about too was briefly expanding our sampling
locations. Perhaps do some kind of monitoring, put together
a plan so that for next year when we start the sampling,
we'll get a baseline of information on the Lake that would
be available to everyone. Key to this is developing an early
warning system or warning mechanism and getting it in writing
so that everyone is on the same page.
Mr. Tomb: I agree.
Mr. Perkins: I appreciate the Association's willingness
to help especially in something like this and updates of
the Township's emergency response plan should always include
some of the associations that may have a little more expertise
than some of our professionals that are there. I'm not sure
where the emergency response plan fell apart or was not
followed in this instance, if in fact it was or wasn't.
Again, it happened. I know that I was personally out there
on the Labor Day weekend. I went out with the Health Officer.
I'm confident that our people did do what was required.
The right people were notified, albeit, not in some sequential
order. It should have been done but they were done and,
again, I appreciate the Association's willingness to help
Mr. Greenbaum: I think that this is of such critical importance
that we need to have some type of tickler system put in
place as Council members to make sure that this issue gets
addressed to everyone's liking, to everyone's satisfaction
now as opposed to two years from now when we have this problem
again. So Dave doesn't come back in two years and say, I
was here in 99, I was here in 2002, so I think what we need
to do is relist it.
President Scapicchio: In Cynthia's report here that is
dated September 10 or stamped as received on September 10,
there is no formal standard operating procedure put in place
and I guess the recommendation is that we formulate one.
Rob would you want to have a Council subcommittee work with
the Administration and either the Lake Association or some
residents to put together a standard operating procedure
to be followed.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don't know if we necessarily need a subcommittee
as opposed to a liaison, one person from Council just to
make sure, I agree that we need a written standard operating
procedure and I agree that we need to get it done now. This
can't be an issue that just falls through the cracks again
which is likely to happen unless we place the proper importance
on this issue that it deserves. I agree with that. I think
we should get it done within the next month and bring it
back to Council and just get the policy in place so that
everyone is satisfied that everything that can be done is
being done and it is being done in accordance with the policy
that everyone has agreed with.
Mrs. Miller: My question is more from my own personal observations.
Today when I came home at 4 o'clock, I could smell something
that did not smell. I don't know what raw sewage really
smells like because I haven't had any problems with my septic
tank in a long time but it really did smell. It was a very
strong smell. It was around the Pavilion area. I was coming
home today around 4 o'clock so if everything has been done,
why do we still have a smell there?
Mr. Tomb: The possibility for that is, as you know we are
in a drought situation and the Lake has lowered a little
bit as a result of that. There is probably still going to
be, there is where a lot of the effluent has entered the
Lake. There is probably still going to be a concentration
there and it is very stagnant water especially with no flow
from stream runoff or whatever. So you probably will smell
it there. It was a particularly warm day today. It was very
sunny baking on it. That might be what it is. I'm not making
excuses for it and maybe even there is a way we can clean
that up. I don't know. If you were around the Pavilion area
that is probably what you smelled.
Mrs. Miller: I'd like to hear from our professionals too
rather than the Lake Committee's assumptions. I'd like to
hear what our professionals comments are, why it should
be smelling at this late date.
Mr. Wilpert: Just so you know, Dave, and you probably don't
have this, we did do testing. I think I mentioned that earlier
yesterday and those results came back well below or within
State standards. In that area where Mrs. Miller is questioning,
it was a count of 40 as opposed to the 200 standard so it
was well below the State level. In Mr. Wilpert (cont'):
addition, it was even below the original testing of 840
that we had gotten just above the Chapel area and the Boat
House. I have a map here. I'm sorry I didn't get it to you
sooner. The gentlemen have it there. I explained it to them.
I wish I'd have know about the odor. We could have responded
and maybe done a sniff test out there or something.
Mr. Guenther: I'd like to volunteer to be the Council liaison
to that Committee that Rob suggested.
President Scapicchio: Bernie, you can if you want. I was
sort of thinking that Ray, as the Board of Health Chairman,
may be in a better position to do that, Ray?
Mr. Perkins: That is fantastic with me, Dave, I'd like
to work together with Frank and the rest of the folks there
to come up with some SOP for this.
President Scapicchio: Bernie, is that okay with you?
Mr. Guenther: That's fine. You are right.
President Scapicchio: I'm going to have Lisa put this on
the Agenda under Council reports, Ray, so you can update
us on a weekly basis based on whatever progress the Administration
Mr. Rattner: I want to put everything in the proper perspective.
I did write a memo and part of the reason for the memo was
to put down the things I observed and where I think things
probably went right. The notification is something and I
did have a lot of concerns without because when you have
any big system, there are going to be break downs, it could
be electrical, it could be a storm, it could be a lot of
things, it could be vandalism that we've had before. I do
want to say that I happened to pass by around 11:30. I got
called out. There were already plenty of spectators around
and when they told me the different concerns and everything
else, I came down around 11:30 to the Municipal Building
and I asked the dispatcher what had been going on. They
told me that the first call was received about 10:40, that
they dispatched a patrol car that went down there and looked
at the situation and said call out Water and Sewer, which
we had somebody on. I guess they were called and were there
within about 5 minutes. They told me that they had already
called and the Public Works Director was already on his
way. They were attempting to contact, they had already gone
down the list on the Health Department. I did come back
down to the site around noon. This time the Public Works
Director was there and he told me that he'd already notified
the DEP. He was trying to get the Health Officer down so
they could evaluate that. He expected his whole crew and
his equipment to be there momentarily and it arrived while
I was there and I would imagine they had the flow stopped
within about 10 minutes. Something like that. I know from
talking to other people, they saw them on the site later
on sanitizing the road. That part, I think they responded
appropriately. Obviously, the concern was that day, thank
god it was bad weather, that on the Oasis Beach they probably
had 300 people that was right down in the area where it
was coming because it was Labor Day weekend. There would
have been a lot of other people. We know we have a lot of
beaches down there. I think that is really what we have
to do. Every other place that has different problems, they
are able to get notification out whether it is bright placards
that are just immediately on saw horses or something but
other places seem to be able to get people out of the water.
If people are on the Lake, I don't know how we are going
to do that. We'll have to put up a flag or some other type
of code but we have to be able to get out there immediately
if we see something to get people out of the water. I heard
the counts were pretty high in a couple specific locations
from the Tuesday test so obviously there could have been,
if it was nice weather, a health issue and that is what
we have to make sure we avoid. That is the purpose of government,
to protect the population and something like that may be
difficult but we have to find a way to do it. I think that
Mark's department responded and, in fact, the last sentence
in my report, I left to let him do his work because it looked
like everything was under control and when I looked at the
timing and everything else, they got there fairly quickly.
President Scapicchio: Mark, since the Council really hasn't
had any official report on this incident, can you give us
that since you are here tonight, please?
Mark DiGennaro, DPW Director: I can have copies made for
you. They have this one?
President Scapicchio: Just give us a general overview?
Mr. DiGennaro: As Mr. Rattner indicated, the police were
notified at approximately 10:40 in the morning. We had on
Monday, it was Labor Day, we had a regular scheduled employee
on staff to do the rounds of our facilities for water and
sewer that day so he was quick to respond to the site and
he had gotten there within 5 to 10 minutes. At 11 am, he
had called me and apprised me of the situation and we also
called in from the Holiday to come in to assist. I had called
the Department of Environmental Protection and notified
them of the situation and then I responded to the site where
I evaluated it. Once I saw the conditions, I called the
DEP once again and requested DEP assistance in cleaning
up this matter. About a half hour afterwards, the section
chief from the
Mr. DiGennaro (cont'd): DEP called me on my cell phone and
he guided me accordingly and I gave him the information
that was taking place on the clean up and basically he was
satisfied with the actions that we had taken. The sewage,
unfortunately, did enter a catch basin that was adjacent
and into the brook which was a direct line to Budd Lake,
however, there were no visible solids which would require
any type of containment or booming that you had indicated.
We had also investigated the outfall at the Lake and we
inspected that as well and there was no visible signs of
papers and solids whatsoever. I had called the DEP once
again at his home and I asked him if he had any reservations.
The wind was in my face. The water seemed to stay within
the channel. It was really moving out. It was somewhat stagnant
in nature and I had asked if he had any concerns or if he
had a desire for me to introduce any type of chlorine to
that channel to try to help disinfect and he advised against
that. They used to follow that procedure and they've change
their protocol. At that point, it was about 2:30 and we
packed up and we left the site. I've prepared a report that
was submitted to the DEP as they require on Thursday. I
forwarded a copy. I assume Council has it as well that explains
in more detail. As far as our response, I feel that it being
a Holiday and being able to get the guys in in the timely
fashion that we did, I'm confident that we did respond properly.
I can't say that there was anything on my end, as far as
the Public Works Department and the guys in the Water and
Sewer Department that they could have done in addition to
contain this matter. It was sewage that was flowing roughly
10 to 20 gallons a minute in to the storm drain. It is difficult
to contain that volume of water. I don't know how we could
do that. If I may, address Mr. Tomb's concern with regards
to on call. We do have a rotating list and there is a procedure
written for the police dispatch units to call our water
and sewer personnel. If there are seven members in that
water and sewer department, not including myself, if at
any point they cannot be reached, they reach me. I'll then
be able to get in touch with somebody. With regards to alarms,
we have set up temporary alarms in each one of our pump
stations. We've increase the amount of audible and visual
devices so that when the alarm does sound, it will be an
annoying sound, somebody will see it, somebody will hear
it. In addition, there is an alarm dialer which is programmed
in to each pump station. That dialer, once there is an alert
condition, that dialer dials a series of phone numbers,
one of which is my cell phone. That continues to dial until
authorized personnel from the sewer department can acknowledge
the alarm. If one of us doesn't acknowledge the alarm, the
alarm continues to ring. The Police Department will get
the call and they will call the proper on-call water and
sewer individual for that week and that individual will
acknowledge the alarm and respond. If that doesn't happen,
the call comes to me. If I can't get somebody, I'll acknowledge
the alarm and respond myself. There is a procedure in place
with regards to emergency responses to the pump stations
and the alarms. It's been working very well for them. It's
been very reliable to date.
Mayor Licitra: This is all subject to change any way when
you meet with this committee, this is all going to be discussed
Mr. DiGennaro: I had a conversation. I'd spoken to Herb,
I don't know your last name. I know we talked out there
on site and also Mr. Thiele. I don't know if he is in the
audience anywhere. We had a pleasant conversation twice
this past week and I look forward to being able to work
with you and try to tighten up where we can where our operation
is concerned so that we can avoid this type of situation
so that everyone can be notified properly. You folks are
out there. You see things. We are in a position to respond
to problems and if you have a situation where you need my
assistance, I'm always available. I'd be happy to meet.
When you have your committee meetings, I'm not sure when
you have those but I'd be happy to attend and discuss some
of those issues with you.
Mr. Wilpert: Just one other thing that I might add to that.
This is still not over. This is still under investigation
in terms of what the cause is and who is responsible. There
are some enforcement issues that may be going on in terms
of the blockage itself. We are working very closely with
NJDEP, our office to try and come up with and identify the
Mr. Tomb: Which is fine.
Mr. Wilpert: I think part of that problem too, Dave, is
that we need to do whatever enforcement is necessary to
insure that these types of things don't happen.
Mr. Tomb: That's definitely part of it. I think we need
to address the early response.
Mr. Wilpert: I want to assure you that when we come upon
these situations, it just doesn't stop there. This investigation
is on going in concert with DEP.
President Scapicchio: We are in recent of two letters that
are signed by you to local restaurants indicating that they
are in violation of certain requirements to clean some grease
traps which you've indicated in your letter seem to be the
primary cause of this back up. Can you add?
Mr. Wilpert: I don't really want to discuss that.
Mr. Dorsey: It's in the enforcement phase now.
Mr. Wilpert: We are looking at some areas of interest and
President Scapicchio: I think the important lesson that
we learn and I'm certain that the Administration and the
Mayor's Department Heads who are involved in this understand
that each time and occurrence happens like this, they improve
the response and the reaction. I think that is what you
see happening here now.
Dave Thiele, 24 Spring St.: At this last incident, I was
one of the observers and I feel that the Town did a very
good job controlling it at the time they arrived. I guess
a lot of it was that maybe we didn't really call sooner.
People were just to busy to recognize that there was a problem.
As an Association we've been trying to be more observant,
kind of like the watch dogs of the neighborhood, you might
say. Any way we can work together with the Town to reach
a common ground and make the Lake a safer place for the
future and everyone who likes living here. We'd like to
take our hand out and try and work together because the
Lake is a very important resource and we've got a lot of
responsibility to the future of the Lake and our families
and generations to come. Thank you.
Mayor Licitra: You've worked with me before so you know
that this is going to get attention and we'll get you the
answers. You also know that there were a lot of holes in
the dike and working with you people from the beginning.
We'll never get it perfect but let's get it better than
what it is. I think you deserve that and I think the Lake
deserves that because we've done so much to try and improve
the quality of the Lake. Your Association has always been
gentlemanly to us, at least to this Administration, we definitely
want to work with you not only for the betterment of the
Lake but also to help your Association. We will, I promise
Mr. Thiele: Thank you Mayor.
Mr. Tomb: May I continue on a different item while I'm
up here? I noticed on your Agenda, Letters from Residents,
the first one is a letter that I wrote regarding the fuel
spill. I apologized in the letter that I might have raised
a few eyebrows and some concerns. I never intended to do
that. Again, I was something that was an unfortunate incident
and I want everyone to learn from that and move forward.
If there is something that we can, that was written as an
individual because it was directly affecting me but I'm
sure the Association would welcome the opportunity to work
on that. If not, I'll do it on my own but since it is on
the Agenda and it is after the public portion, if there
are any questions or not? I don't know if this is proper
or not, Mr. President, but if there are questions on that,
I'd be more than happy to answer that now. Thank you.
Mayor Licitra: 7:00 tomorrow night, I give the invitation
to everyone and everyone in the audience on our, not a Memorial
Mass, our service. We had 600-700 people last time. I would
hope that we at least have that many this time and the weather
holds out. The invitation is extended to the Council
and the public. The same court yard as we used the last
President Scapicchio: In the court yard in front of the
Mayor Licitra: And the Clergy will be putting on a service.
Mr. Guenther: Actually, it's the back of the Municipal
President Scapicchio: Mayor, Lisa has informed me that
if it rains that it will be held at the Middle
PUBLIC HEARING ON MORRIS COUNTY OPEN SPACE APPLICATIONS
" Baptist Church, Block 7801 Lot 8
" Vasa Park, Block 8103 Lot 1, portion
Kathy Murphy: Good evening. We have two applications in
which we need to have a Public Hearing. We have actually
discussed them at some length previously but for the record
the Township is applying for two applications, one for the
Baptist Church property. Across from the Baptist Church
which is next door to us, they own a vacant lot across the
street. It is sort of diagonal from this property. It is
about 40 acres of wetlands and there is a second piece of
property at this point that they are going to be also selling
to the Town in a one package deal. That is the little old
Baptist Church and the little school next to it with the
cemetery, which is all part of this whole deal that we are
trying to conclude. So we are going to apply for that using
Open Space funds. We are requesting that we get some funding
from the Morris County Open Space Fund and also money Mrs.
Murphy(cont'd): from Green Acres to help us conclude the
purchase. The second application is to purchase a conservation
easement on a portion of Vasa Park. Vasa Park is 122 acres
in size. Of course there are about 90 homes back there and
they have public community buildings. What we are proposing
to do is purchase a conservation easement which would protect
mostly the rear and southern portion of the property from
future development and protect the wetlands and river corridor.
A conservation easement allows the owners to retain ownership
of the property but they would forfeit any rights to develop
the property for housing, etc. They would have to keep it
as a conservation area. With that we would look to gain
public access for a trail along the river. So those are
our two applications. A third one is also for the Church
of Light which we have previously discussed. If there is
any questions from the public or comments from the Council
I will be willing to discuss those.
Mr. Perkins: Kathy on the conservation easement for Vasa,
will that preclude any utilities utilizing that conservation
Mrs. Murphy: As far as for example well drilling or whatever?
Mr. Perkins: For water distribution, and sewers etc
Mrs. Murphy: That is usually a negotiable point.
Mr. Perkins: Can we get language in there that it would
be exempt and that they would not be able to utilize that.
Mrs. Murphy: We could certainly bring that up.
Mr. Perkins: It isn't is nice to have a conservation easement
if somebody starts ripping it up to put water and sewer
lines through there for a development that is adjacent to
Mrs. Murphy: I don't believe you would be able to then
putting water and sewer lines in it, but
Mr. Dorsey: She has given the right answer. It is all negotiable
and depends on how it is written. So if that is what you
Mrs. Murphy: If that is a priority piece for negotiation
we could certainly include that, okay.
Mrs. Miller: I just want to comment that both of these
properties I think are worthy of the Open Space applications.
First of all the Baptist Church, having property close to
the Municipal Building I think is going to benefit our little
hub or center that we are trying to create here and I Mrs.
Miller especially like having the old church and the graveyard
and the old school house in and I believe that will allow
us to also have funding from the historic funding sources
so I think that this is a marvelous opportunity that we
would be crazy to bypass. The Vasa Park, I think that is
important because we have conservation easements like you
say that means that no development would happen on that
portion yet they would still be the caretakers of that property.
So that sort of relieves us from maintenance and I think
it is important because it just so happens that around that
area there's a developer's that would probably very much
like to get a hold of that property. I think it is a step
in the right direction to preserving portions of the Raritan
River and it would be the first really big chunk I think
along the Raritan River between Washington Township and
Mrs. Murphy: Until you get all the way to the Tarn, there
is virtually no Open Space protected along the South Branch.
Mrs. Miller: This is sort of like getting our foot in the
door and hopefully, especially if the developer next to
that ever comes before Planning Board, something we could
certainly encourage a corridor from this area in either
direction. So I think it is a very important first step.
Mrs. Murphy: Governor McGreevy has passed an executive order
basically directing Green Acres to prioritize the acquisition
of stream corridor. So this would be very high on their
list to try to protect and as far as the Baptist Church
property it has stream corridor for a trout production stream
and the Town does own some property next to that, so it
would build on that stream corridor and hopefully connect,
eventually between Wolfe Road over to Mt. Olive Road with
additional open space that we potentially may acquire if
Jen III is approved for development.
Mrs. Miller: These applications are definitely a win win
situation so we really have to go after it.
President Scapicchio: Anyone from the public wish to comment
on these open Space Application. Seeing none. Council, we
have a resolution that I am going to ask Mr. Rattner to
move Resolution No. 11.
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing the Submission of an Application
to the Morris County Open Space and Farmland Preservation
Trust Fund. (Baptist Church & Vasa Park).
Mr. Rattner moved for approval resolution No. 11 and Mr.
Perkins seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Anyone from the public wish to comment
on this resolution? Seeing none, Council comments?
Mr. Guenther: I just want to add my two cents worth to
sort of underline what Charlene said. Both these properties
are very important to our entire program and what we are
trying to do to preserve open space and keep Mount Olive
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
TURKEY BROOK PARK PROJECT STATUS
Mrs. Spencer: Yes, Gene is going to give us tonight's project
President Scapicchio: Is Gene going to give us those reports
from this point forward?
Mrs. Spencer: Whenever he is here.
President Scapicchio: Is it your intention for him to give
these reports at every meeting?
Mrs. Spencer: Yes.
Mr. Buczynski: As far as the park construction, it is basically
70% completed. The main issue I was going to discuss is
the well which we discussed earlier. Sod should be placed
on the field, someone said 9/15, it is really 9/20 is when
it is planned right now, weather permitting, of course.
The paving of the access road should commence tomorrow.
That is the plan. I think it is going to be on schedule.
President Scapicchio: Is that the top course?
Mr. Buczynski: Yes. The drilling of the second well probably
will commence next week. We are still waiting for the well
driller to get his permits. If anyone has been on site,
the access road adjacent to the detention basin for the
GPU poles has been installed by Town forces and that is
ready to go. We are just waiting for GPU to come on site
to install the poles. I think we could expect them probably
next week. Also, there is some clean up and regarding in
front of the site which was also done by Town forces. Overall,
we are definitely still in the right direction and we are
getting toward home base right now. Things are looking pretty
good. There are a few things we have to get right now. We
have to get the irrigation system going of course. We've
got to get the power so we can get the permanent pump in
the well. I think what is going to happen, we will probably
have the second well drilled and we'll be able to know right
away what we have for the yield in that well and we'll see
where we are going to go and if we are even going to use
the first well. That's all I have right now.
Mr. Guenther: I haven't been up there in possibly a week.
Has the fence been put up again around the Seward House,
around the back of it? Because it was taken down apparently
because of some grading that they had to do for the access
road and part of the fence is down around the one side where
they put up the sign and from that point on forward and
to the back, the fence is gone.
Mr. Buczynski: I don't the fence has been installed yet.
I don't believe so.
Jim Lynch, Supervisor of Bldgs., Grounds & Parks: I
at the site this afternoon. The fence is still not restored.
Once they complete their paving work on the access road,
I believe that is when the intend to restore it because
until then they have to maintain the integrity of the slopes
leading to the access road. I will clarify that this week
and we'll make sure that gets back up as soon as we can.
Mrs. Miller: Are we going to fence in the detention basis
since it is going to have water in it all the time.
President Scapicchio: Charlene, that is an issue for this
Council to address.
Mrs. Miller: I don't want it to fall between the cracks.
President Scapicchio: Lisa, why don't we schedule that
for the next workshop - the discussion of fencing around
that detention basin around Turkey Brook Park. Charlene,
we've got that scheduled for the next available workshop,
Mr. Greenbaum: Two issues, one, Gene, are there any change
orders out there that we don't know about or have we been
advised as to all the change orders to date.
Mr. Buczynski: The only one that we talked about and it's
not really going to be a change order, the decision has
been made already, the regarding of the two fields because
of a flaw in the design plans from Olympus. I think Mr.
Dorsey sent a letter to Council and the Administration regarding
that. Other than that, I'm sure there might be some small
ones coming in. I have nothing on the books for a change
order. I am not aware of anything at this point. I'm sure
there may be something coming up, but nothing of major importance.
Mr. Greenbaum: The other issue I had with regard to Turkey
Brook is the Seward Mansion itself. At some point the decision
is going to have to be made with what to do with that building.
I know that there has been a great push to try and find
alternative funding to restore that building and to utilize
that building. At some point Council is going to have to
make the decision that that funding is either not going
to happen, that the building is going to have to be demolished
or that we are willing to give more time to get the funding
because a lot of people have been coming up to me and asking
me what's happening, why is it still there, is it going
to be fixed up and we spent all of this money to have the
project and I'd love to be able to restore that building,
obviously we don't have the money to do it and at some point
we are going to have to make the decision. We are going
to have to draw a line in the sand and say, what are we
Mr. Guenther: I'm very much in favor of restoring. I've
talked with Thea Dunkle various times. She is in the process,
first of all she is trying to get a tarp so that they can
cover it and prevent further deterioration of the building.
It just seems like, I'm really kind of surprised that you
bring it up now, Rob, because we have to give these things
a chance. They have to put in for grants. We have to give
them some time. It is not an issue where we can expect to
get quick results. We have nothing in this Town that has
any historical significance except the Baptist Church which
doesn't have an official historic designation. There used
to be a historical zone down off River Road, there were
some cute older buildings down there and that was eliminated
in the change a couple of Master Plans ago. I guess we have
Flanders Village, but we have nothing. There is no heritage,
there are no roots. If you go to every town in this area,
Roxbury has about four or five different sections where
they have little historic areas and they have preserved
buildings. Washington Township is the same way. You go to
every surrounding community, there is a certain sense of
pride in a symbol that is there. This is a significant symbol.
I understand it is going to cost an awful lot of money but
I really think we should make an all out effort. I'm not
saying using Town funds but Kathy Murphy is sitting in the
audience and she's done wonderful things as far as getting
grants off the ground. I'm sure there is so much federal
and state money out there for things of this nature that
I think we just have to really apply ourselves to go after.
I feel very strongly about this. This is our biggest public
park with a lot of public exposure. This could be used as
a club house, a meeting house, community activities that
would be a tremendous boom to the Town as a symbol of something
which we really don't have.
Mr. Greenbaum: I agree with Bernie. I'd really like to
see it restored and that is why I raised the issue. I want
to see the game plan. I want to know what the time frame
is. If she is going to tell me that it is going to take
10 years to put the funding in place, then it helps me make
my decision. If she tells me, that Thea is going to know
where she is going in two years with regard to this project,
that she will have exhausted all of her remedies, that is
something I want to know. I would love to see the building
restored. Bernie, to the extent that you got the sense from
me that I want to knock this building down, that is not
the case. I just want to know what the game plan is. What
the strategy is in terms of trying to get funding to restore
Mr. Spino: I agree with everything that Bernie said. I
think we started it tonight by trying, we are planning to
acquire the one room school house, which I also think that
we should have an interest in restoring with the Jerseyman
Club from the High School. I would be in favor of waiting
for as long as it takes to get the money. I would put no
time limit on it. If we can get it covered and put the fence
back up and make sure it is safe so that people can't get
in there, and there is no further deterioration, the house
stays as long as it takes.
Mr. Rattner: With Seward house, I know when it first came
up, we started looking at it, oh, how much it was going
to cost to refurbish it and I got discouraged and thought
there were better things to do with the money. One of the
things that we did do was put the fence around it to stabilize
it and make sure it is safe. Now that the field has been
cleaned up, it's a gorgeous building, even the facade that
is still there. You can go around a lot of different towns
and you'll see foundations, walls, partial things, just
showing what it was and if you can fix it Mr. Rattner (cont'd):
and stabilize it, that's gorgeous. I was in Italy two years
ago and you know how they are in Europe. If there are a
couple of rocks left over from something that was built
700 years ago and people are running around the world to
go see it, circus maximus has condos that were built in
the second century A.D. that are in ruins and they left
them there and stabilized them, the market place which was
the early mall built around 50 A.D. that was destroyed in
World War II. We can do that. The other thing that we have
to look at is tonight we are going to be voting on a resolution
that is going to support the referendum that the Freeholders
have put on the ballot this fall that will allow one quarter
of a cent of the open space tax, not a new tax but just
using some of that to be used for acquiring and rehabilitation
of historic sites. We have been very successful in getting
funds for Green Acres. I have no doubt that we can be successful
in getting funds to do that. I don't think we are ever going
to rebuild it. I heard some of the numbers and unless some
benefactor comes along but I think we can stabilize it.
I think we can make it into something that we can be proud
to show off.
President Scapicchio: Gene, anything else on Turkey Brook
Park? Legal Matters, Mr. Dorsey?
Mr. Dorsey: We made the offer to Vollers. We haven't gotten
a response from them. We did send them a general release.
We gave them the choices, either settle now at Rob Greenbaum's
number or spend three years in court. The other thing is,
that has to do with an extra for Vollers at Turkey Brook.
Vollers and AIG Baker are in horrendous litigation, which
we've been removed, to the federal court. Vollers claims
it is owed $2.5 million. AIG Baker claims that Vollers stole
from AIG. In any event, one of the few times that one of
my clauses of indemnification and defense and hold harmless
has come in to play. I made a demand on AIG Baker to defend
the Township in connection with the suit brought by Vollers
and they have now accepted as their obligation. Therefore,
they are defending the Township's interests.
President Scapicchio: Thank you, Mr. Dorsey. We have the
approval of Minutes.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS:
August 20, 2002 CS Present: Mr. Guenther, Mrs. Miller,
Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins (excused himself
from discussion), Mr. Spino
Absent: President Scapicchio
May 8, 2001 Present: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Sohl, Mrs. Kelly,
Absent: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Spino, President Rattner
June 19, 2001 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Sohl, Mrs. Kelly,
Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio (8:20 pm), Mr.
Heymann (7:45 pm), President Rattner
Mr. Perkins moved for approval of the Minutes and Mrs.
Miller seconded the motion.
Mr. Rattner: One thing. You keep hearing about timing,
timing is everything. In looking over the Minutes, one of
them was rather old and they other is the passage of time
clarifies a lot of situations. Two things that I thought
were rather interesting in the Minutes if you read them.
One, in these Minutes, the Mayor was justifying why our
previous Business Administrator deserved the largest raise
in Town. I thought that was interesting, but the other and
more serious is that it was our discussion over a letter
of reprimand that was made again the Township Clerk. If
you remember, the letter of reprimand was because of an
outburst she had when was asked to sign a document that
she felt was false and I think after some of the situations
that we've just had, as I said clarifying and probably may
be now making it more plausible of the whole situation,
we should look at that situation again now because at the
time I said that I thought that was harsh for a single outburst
after 17 years for something that we've all probably said
in our own discussions, even though we know it was something
said that was probably inappropriate in a business office
of any business, however, now understanding why and some
of the other situations and just from a situation of fairness,
I think that, not tonight, I have a recommendation on that
that I would like to address at a later meeting. I suggest
that everyone reads those Minutes. I think it is very interesting.
President Scapicchio: So noted, Steve, thank you. Anyone
else on the Minutes?
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exceptions:
Mr. Greenbaum abstained on May 8, 2001 and June 19, 2001
Mr. Perkins abstained on all
Mr. Spino abstained on May 8, 2001
Mr. Guenther abstained on May 8, 2001
Mr. Scapicchio abstained on August 20, 2002
President Scapicchio: We have 28 letters of Correspondence.
Anyone from the Council?
Letters from Residents
1. Letter received September 3, 2002, from Dave Tomb (84
Sandshore Road) regarding Incidents surrounding garbage
truck fire on August 2, 2002.
Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from Other Municipalities
2. Resolution received August 19, 2002, from the Township
of South Brunswick regarding the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.
3. Ordinance received August 19, 2002, from the Township
of Chester regarding Land Use.
4. Ordinance received August 22, 2002, from Washington
Township regarding Land Use.
5. Resolution received August 22, 2002, from Palisades
Park Commission and the Highlands Coalition regarding Support
of the Highlands Stewardship Act.
6. Ordinance received August 26, 2002, from the Township
of Roxbury regarding Land Use.
7. Resolution received August 27, 2002, from the Township
of Hardyston regarding Assembly Bill 2419. (Restoring funding
to the Watershed Moratorium Offset Aid Program)
8. Resolution received September 5, 2002, from the Township
of Roxbury regarding Amendments to the Roxbury Township
Master Plan Land Plan Element and Housing Plan Element and
Fair Share Plan.
9. Resolution received September 6, 2002, from the Town
of Boonton regarding Clean Communities Bill.
League of Municipalities
10. E-mail received August 19, 2002, from the New Jersey
State League of Municipalities regarding the NJ Builders
Association - COAH Motion.
11. Letter received August 20, 2002, from the New Jersey
State League of Municipalities regarding League Policy and
Procedures on Conference Resolutions.
12. Letter received August 28, 2002, from Morris County
League of Municipalities regarding Association Land Use
Seminar - September 30th.
13. Letter received August 20, 2002, from Giordano, Halleran
& Ciesla regarding Application of Oakwood Village Sewerage
Associates, LLC for Approval of (A) Service Area, (B) Issuance
of Equity Interests, and (C) Initial Tariff Docket No. WE
14. Permit received August 22, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey regarding Stream Encroachment Permit for Informational
15. Letter received August 23, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding
Letter of Interpretation - Presence / Absence Extension
Applicant: New Jersey Foreign Trade Zone Block 202; Lot
1. (International Drive, Vacant Land)
16. Letter received August 29, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding
Letter of Interpretation: Presence / Absence Determination
for Footprint of Disturbance. Applicant: Musconetcong Sewerage
Authority Block 201; Lot 3 (10 Continental Drive)
17. Letter received August 29, 2002, from Glasson Environmental
Services Regarding Application for a Letter of Interpretation.
Applicant: Mr. Dimitri Mathews c/o Chester Hills Diner.
Lot 4 Block 6600 (370 Route 206)
18. Letter received September 3, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey, Division of Ratepayer Advocate Re: I/M/O Application
of Oakwood Village Sewerage Associates, LLC for Approval
of (A) Service Area; (B) Issuance of Equity Interests, and
(C) Initial Tariff-Revised Petition.
19. Letter received September 3, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey, Division of the Ratepayer Advocate regarding
I/M/O Application of Oakwood Village Sewerage Associates,
LLC for Approval of (A) Service Area; (B) Issuance of Equity
Interests, and (C) Initial Tariff - Revised Petition.
20. Permit received September 6, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding
Stream Encroachment for American Instants, Inc. Block 6801,
Lot 4, 5 (2,000 feet Southwesterly of the intersection of
Route 206 and Bartley Flanders Road)
Correspondence from Legislative Representatives
21. Letter received August 23, 2002, from Assemblyman Garrett
regarding a Resolution adopted by Mt. Olive to Increase
fees for the registration of all terrain vehicles.
22. Letter received August 28, 2002, from Senator Bagger,
Assemblyman Kean and Assemblyman Munoz regarding Resolution
sent to them by Mount Olive regarding Governor McGreevey's
freeze in State Aid to School districts.
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards
23. E-mail received August 20, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey regarding Administrative Order 2002-21. (Water
24. E-mail received August 20, 2002, from the State of
New Jersey regarding Administrative Order 2002-20, and 2002-18.
(Water Use restrictions)
Utilities / Cable
25. Notice received August 23, 2002, from Elizabeth Gas
regarding Public Hearings regarding Proposed Gas Base Rate
Increases and Depreciation Rate Changes.
26. Letter received August 29, 2002, from New Jersey Natural
Gas regarding enforcement of the Uniform Fire Code.
27. Letter received September 5, 2002, from Comcast Special
Programming in remembrance of September 11th.
28. Letter received September 5, 2002, from The MWW Group
/ Strategic Communications Counsel regarding YES Network.
ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING
President Scapicchio opened the hearing to the public on
the following ordinance:
Ord. #34-2002 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the
Township of Mount Olive Establishing Salaries of the Department
Heads, Supervisory and Certain Non-Union Personnel and for
the Employees of the Township Clerk's Office for the Year
President Scapicchio closed the hearing to the public.
Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ord.
#34-2002 and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception, Mr. Spino
President Scapicchio declared Ord. #34-2002 as passed on
ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd Reading/Public Hearing
October 1, 2002)
Ord. #38-2002 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Authorizing the Purchase of a Conservation Easement/Development
Rights Across Lot 16, Block 7100 and Lot 54, Block 5300
on the Tax Assessment Maps of the Township of Mount Olive
Which Property is Commonly Referred to as the Devlin Property
and Appropriating the Sum of $530,000.00. amended "An
Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the
Purchase of a Conservation Easement/Development Rights Across
Lot 16, Block 7100 and Lot 54, Block 5300 on the Tax Assessment
Maps of the Township of Mount Olive Which Property is Commonly
Referred to as the Devlin Property and Appropriating the
Sum of $142,500.00.
Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ord. #38-2002 introduced by title
and passed on first reading, that a meeting be
held on October 1, 2002, at 7:30 pm in the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive,
NJ, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading
and passage of said ordinance and Mrs. Miller
seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Mrs. Miller: I did want to make a comment but you passed
the comment period rather quickly.
President Scapicchio: I'm sorry, Charlene, did you want
to say something.
Mrs. Miller: I just wanted to say that this is another
wonderful example of partnership between the Morris
Land Conservancy and our Open Space Committee in trying
to preserve land, again, through conservation
easements whereas the property owner will continue to have
the land and management the land but no
development will be allowed on the land. I think that this
is something, another way of preserving open space
that is becoming very viable, perhaps very popular in the
President Scapicchio: Thanks, Charlene. I'm sorry for going
Ord. #39-2002 An Ordinance to Vacate a Portion of Clinton
Avenue. (Dan & Fran Nelson Subdivision)
Mr. Perkins moved that Ord. #39-2002 introduced by title
and passed on first reading, that a meeting be
held on October 1, 2002, at 7:30 pm in the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive,
NJ, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading
and passage of said ordinance and Mrs. Miller
seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA:
Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to
be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council
and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will
be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions
except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements
that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests,
any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed
from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.
MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA
Mr. Guenther: I'd like to move to take a resolution off
the Consent for separate discussion, Number 6.
President Scapicchio: I'm told that Number 5 needs some
Mr. Guenther: Number 10 was already approved so take that
President Scapicchio: No, Number 11 was already approved.
Mrs. Miller: What about 3 and 4?
President Scapicchio: They are removed. They are off.
Mrs. Spencer: We'd like to put them back on in two weeks
at the time that the Capital Ordinance is approved.
President Scapicchio: So we have Consent Resolutions Number
1, 2, 7-10..
Mr. Guenther: Number 5 is on, I asked to take Number 6
President Scapicchio: Number 5 is off. I was told in the
beginning of the meeting by the Clerk that there were several
additions related to the wording of that ordinance.
Mrs. Miller: Wouldn't it be easier if you just say, Numbers
1 through 15 excluding 3, 4, 5, 6 & 11.
President Scapicchio: Okay, Council President. Will a Council
member move that Consent Resolution Agenda, please.
Mrs. Miller moved for approval of Resolution Numbers 1
through 15 excluding 3, 4, 5, 6 & 11 and Mr. Rattner
seconded the motion.
PUBLIC PORTION ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive to Foreclose In Rem Certificates by the Township
of Mount Olive.
2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Endorsing the concept of Funds from the County
of Morris' Open Space and Farmland Preservation Trust Fund
Being Utilized to Acquire or Preserve Historic Properties.
3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing a Contract with Schoor DePalma as
Township Engineer for the Engineering Services in Connection
with the Resurfacing and Drainage Improvements to Pleasant
Hill Road. Removed till 9/24/02 when Capital Budget Bond
Ord. is adopted
4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing a Contract with Schoor DePalma in
Connection with the Route #46 Sidewalk Improvement Program.
Removed till 9/24/02 when Capital Budget Bond Ord. is adopted
7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive To Confirm the Appointment of Fred DeToro, Jr.,
to Fire Sub-Code Official.
8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive In Support of the Highlands Stewardship Act.
9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Prohibiting Parking on Certain Streets from
12:00 Noon on September 12, 2002 Through 12:00 am on September
16, 2002. (St. Elizabeth's Carnival)
10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Approving a Memorandum of Agreement Between
the Township and FOP Lodge #122. (FOP/SOP Contract)
12. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing
a Change of Amount in 2002 Current Fund Budget Appropriations
in Accordance with NJS 40A:4-85. (Salary Line Item Adjustments)
13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer's
Agreement Between the Township and Lakeview Estates (Final
14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer's
Agreement Between the Township and McDonald's Corporation.
15. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer's
Agreement Between the Township and Commerce Bank North Block
8301 Lot 14-16. (Route 46)
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
RESOLUTIONS NON CONSENT
5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing Emergency Purchase Process.
Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of Resolution Number 5
and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Ray, Lisa told me you had some questions
with regard to the way it is written.
Mr. Perkins: Thank you, Dave. During the workshop meeting
we had looked under Section A, paragraph G for emergency
conditions with estimated costs in the excess of $10,000.
Councilman Greenbaum had requested that it be added that
it be subject to the approval by the Mount Olive Township
Council which also then would have an effect to make the
change on the last statement of the declaration page where
an emergency condition was changed from $50,000 to $10,000,
that that also should be subject to the approval of the
Mount Olive Township Council. I hate for an emergency condition
to be existing out there and our Administrative staff be
hard pressed to find a quorum to get approval on $10,000.
So everything needs to be subject to the approval, it doesn't
necessarily mean that it has to be.
Mr. Rattner: I'm just trying to make sure what it says.
Subject to means that we could require but if they can't
find it, they can just go ahead and do it. That's the whole
idea because in an emergency they should be able to move
ahead, especially to clean up a sewer spill.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Opposing Assembly Bill A-2464 Which Would Require
Municipal and County Utilities to Discount Sewer and Water
Connection Fees for Affordable Housing.
President Scapicchio: Mr. Guenther, do you want to move
Mr. Guenther: No, I don't want to vote for it.
Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of Resolution Number 6
and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.
Mr. Guenther: Apparently you haven't all read what the
Bill has to say. The abbreviated version in the pile here
doesn't get a true reflection of what this Bill covers.
I'll read for you what it is. It has nothing to do with
anything that effects this Town. A County or Municipal Sewage
Authority shall establish within it's rates or schedule
a 50% reduction in the connection fee or tapping fee assessed
pursuant to Section, I won't read all of the numbers, for
connection with the Sewer System which is charged to public
housing authorities and to non profit organizations building
affordable housing projects. A County or Municipal Sewage
Authority also shall establish within it's rates or schedule
a credit against the connection fee or tapping fee assessed
for connection with the sewer system to public housing authorities
and non profit organizations building affordable housing
units in an amount equal to the connection fee or tapping
fee assessed for the connection with the sewage system for
units previously connected to the authority system that
were demolished or refurbished to allow for new affordable
housing units. This is the only new section, the rest of
the, this is an amendment to the original Act. That is the
only amended part. This is meant for public authorities
that are building affordable housing, probably in the inner
cities, it does not involve private developers. I know we
love to pillary and crucify private developers as being
scurrilous scum that do not deserve any break. This does
not involved private developers and builders in any way.
So, I don't see any reason that we should be passing a resolution
to oppose this particular legislation. This is done for
a purpose and if they are public housing authorities, non
profit organizations, it means you rob peter to pay paul.
You are taking money from one pocket to the other. If this
is not approved, one way or the other the public budget
is going to cover the expenses. So it doesn't matter because
it is not a private developer or private builder that is
involved. For that reason, I oppose us even getting involved.
Mr. Perkins: Having read back through this and lengthy
discussions with Councilman Guenther, I'm inclined to agree
with him, looking at that because it is all non profit organizations,
publically owned systems. I have no apprehension at all
with changing my vote and not supporting this.
Mr. Spino: I still don't agree, if, for example, someone
wanted to come in and hook in to, we have two municipal
utilities that we pay for sewage on. If a builder or a non
profit wants to come in, those differences in prices are
going to have to be made up by somebody. We can't force
the Musconetcong Sewerage Authority or the Hackettstown
Municipal Sewerage Authority to take half their money. Who
is going to make that up?
Mr. Guenther: The taxpayers will pay it any way, one way
or the other because they are publicly funded.
Mr. Spino: Publicly funded by whom? If it is a State Housing
Association or a County Housing Association, it spread over
the whole County not just the municipality, in Mount Olive,
not just the people on that system. I do believe that your
explanation of what you think, some of us think, developers
are is right.
Mr. Guenther: I don't have to agree but that's alright.
Mrs. Miller: The part that I don't like about it is that
kind of takes some of the municipal control away. I think
each non profit or low income, whether private or non profit,
should be considered on its own merits, not just give everyone
a blanket statement saying that all of the are exempt from
those fees. I think it should be decided individually rather
than giving a blanket approval. I oppose it.
Mr. Rattner: I continue to oppose it. One thing, whether
it be non profit, whatever, when we start talking about
the low income, the subsidized housing, we are still probably
going to have to pay for the schools like we have now. We
can't require the same road improvements because of early
statutes but the other thing and what we really have to
look at, we collect our fees through a safe liquidating
utility. We have approximately 2,500 customers. If we give
a discount, if someone comes in with 250 units, that means,
if we were going to waive those charges, we'd have to put
a surcharge of 10% only to those users. If we want to say
we support it and we're going to take taxpayer money so
that everyone shares, not just the user of the sewer, well
then maybe it's a little more powerful if that's what you
want to do. We can do those types of things under developer's
agreements on a case by case situation to what Mrs. Miller
said. If we see a project that we think is real good, we
can waive a lot of things. We have the authority to waive
construction fees, recreation fees, we can do a lot of things
but we still have to pay for it. I think Mrs. Miller is
right. We should look at it on a project by project basis
if it is something that we think is beneficial to the Town.
It will support it by giving it incentives.
ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority; Mr. Guenther and Mr.
Perkins Voted No
16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive RE: Cablevision. (No Yankee game coverage)
Mr. Rattner moved for approval of Resolution Number 16
and Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.
Mr. Guenther: This is absurd. First of all I find that
a letter from a private company and we are urging this private
company through a public resolution. Number two, this is
a private dispute between two commercial enterprises. We
have no business getting involved in it. For example, if
I all of a sudden, and I don't know why this is on the Agenda,
probably because we have a couple of Yankees fans.
President Scapicchio: Lisa, can you explain to Mr. Guenther
how this came on the Agenda.
Mr. Guenther: I don't care how it got on the Agenda, it
shouldn't be there. If I were to go, for example, there
are 300 cable channels and Cablevision only offers me 65,
I could have a special interest that I want a certain cable
channel. Anybody, you can come from the audience, anybody,
get a resolution put on here. It doesn't make sense. Government
shouldn't be involved. This is a private dispute. No matter
what you think about the two entities and their dispute
and it's been discussed enough on the radio to know that
they are both at fault. We shouldn't be getting involved
Mr. Spino: I don't often disagree with you but I'm disagreeing
with you two times in a row here. I used to watch baseball
every day. I haven't watched baseball in many, many years,
ever since George Steinbrenner fired Willie Randolph. I
think you are absolutely wrong. Cablevision is a private
concern, but it deals on the public airways, Number one.
Number two, they come to us for a franchise to run their
cable lines. They have a monopoly in this Town just about,
except for a little part that Storer has. When people come
in here and complain that they don't have cable, we write
and call the cable company. We've had them in on numerous
occasions to extend their service so why can't we ask them
now to give this service to people.
Mr. Guenther: Because they'll wind up charging every rate
user. Their position is that it should be a premium service.
I don't want to pay for it because I'm not a Yankee fan.
Mr. Spino: People know that, you pay for everything else
that we get now anyway.
Mr. Greenbaum: I am, obviously, a Yankee fan. I've raised
this issue before. I thank Lisa for putting it on the Agenda
although in the scheme of things, in what we deal with,
it is minor and I know Bernie thinks it's absurd but I wonder
if Bernie would think it was so absurd if we had a resolution
opposing certain programs that Cablevision put on. For instance,
let's assume that they decided to have a Klu Klux Klan channel
or a Nazi channel. That is something that I would think
would be appropriate for the Council to get involved with
but to say simply because this is a dispute or it is a private
company, I don't believe that is an appropriate reason not
Mr. Greenbaum (cont'd): to discuss it. Now you may not want
to have it. That's a different issue. I think this effects
a lot of people in the Township and they don't have any
recourse and that is why I think it is important to let
Cablevision know that we, as a governing body, who do regulate
them through the granting of a franchise, are not happy
with their decision making processes.
Mr. Guenther: I dispute not having any recourse. They can
get a dish and kick Cablevision out of the house if they
Mr. Rattner: This is really ludicrous. Where are we going
to stop the control. If we are going to do this, being of
a Jewish background, I want to put a resolution on demanding
that if McDonalds wants to come in to Town, then they have
to pastrami on rye with mustard, no mayo, and if they don't,
they can't come here. Where does it end where you want a
personal thing? There is competition and it will charge
everybody. YES Network wants to charge Cablevision to reregulate
Cable TV which means they can flow through increased programming
costs. It gets ridiculous. I'd rather have NASCAR and a
lot of things I'd rather have first. If I don't like it,
I'll go to the dish and I'll try that if I really had a
ROLL CALL: Defeated
No - Mr. Rattner, Mr. Perkins, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Guenther
Yes - Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
17. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount olive Authorizing the Conveyance of a Portion of
Man Avenue to Victor Carpio and Clare Carpio Owners of Lot
9 Block 3400. (deed addendum resulting from road vacation).
Mr. Rattner moved approval of Resolution Number 17 and
Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
18. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing Execution of a Developer's Agreement
Between the Township and Brinker New Jersey, Inc.
Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of Resolution Number 18
and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.
Mr. Rattner: Has anybody notified the corporation that
we are requiring them to place the building on Bartley-Flanders
Road in Flanders? It just gets frustrating. At the workshop
last week, we had two that nobody proofread. Now we have
another one. Everything else looks fine but it says that
it's on Flanders-Bartley Road. Are you from Brinker?
Mr. Dorsey: I changed that. Somebody brought that to my
Mrs. Lashway: I'll make the change.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
19. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Issuance of a Contract to
Dan Ballantine Well Drilling, Inc. in the Amount of $12,900.00.
(2nd well at Turkey Brook Park.
Mr. Perkins moved for approval of Resolution Number 19
and Mr. Spino seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception, Mrs.
Miller voted No
1. Bill List & Supplemental Bill List (Conti Constr.)
Mrs. Miller moved for approval of the Bill List (25 pages)
& Supplemental Bill List and Mr. Guenther seconded the
Mr. Rattner: Charlene just mentioned that she thought the
Conti bill was pulled.
Mr. Guenther: I thought it was pulled.
Mrs. Miller: Why is it back in here? It was added.
Mrs. Lashway: It was added. Today the Business Administrator
asked that it be put on. It wasn't in your Friday packet.
In your amended packet you see the one Bill for Kyle Conti.
That is what I am referring to as the Supplemental Bill
President Scapicchio: We have a supplemental bill in our
packet to Kyle Conti in the amount of $842,661. Cynthia,
Mrs. Spencer: This is the work that has been completed
through August 15th. The Bill had been processed properly
and it was sitting in Finance and they sent out the P.O.
for signature and it came back in and she just missed it
when she ran the Bill List so when I was reviewing it last
night and found that it wasn't on, I asked this morning.
President Scapicchio: Has this been paid?
Mrs. Spencer: No, it certainly has not been paid.
President Scapicchio: No checks have been issued?
Mrs. Spencer: No checks have been issued. As usual it has
been certified by the inspector on site as well as processed
through Olympus and this was approved 68% of the work being
completed on site.
Mr. Rattner: So 68% of the work has been completed and
what percentage has been paid?
Mrs. Spencer: We always retain 2%.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
2. Approval of Raffle Application #1043 for the Budd Lake
First Aid & Rescue Squad; Raffle Application #1044 for
the Mt. Olive High School Parents Club; and Raffle Application
#1045 for the Mount Olive High School Music Boosters.
Mr. Guenther moved for approval of the Raffle Applications
#1043 through #1045 and Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Library Board Liaison Report
Mrs. Miller: Normally we would be meeting tomorrow night
but the meeting has been changed to Thursday night.
Mr. Guenther: There was a meeting last week. It was the
first meeting after the summer. They reported a very successful
Lake program. Also, there was a lengthy discussion of the
proposal, the facts that Jim Lynch had laid out for us the
week before, the issue of using outside contractors versus
in house personnel for taking care of Turkey Brook Park.
As a result, our recommendation is to get it on the Agenda
as quickly as possible on our workshop agenda for discussion
because there are some critical issues regarding the Turkey
Brook equipment both on the part if it were the Town to
do it, the Town would have to buy the equipment, put in
the orders because of the lengthy delivery time. Also the
contractors would have to buy certain equipment and they
would be caught in the same situation so we want to try
and get this resolved as quickly as possible.
President Scapicchio: Lisa, can you note that for the next
available workshop please and I think you should allow some
time for some significant discussion on that.
Board of Health Report
Mr. Perkins: The next meeting is on Thursday. We have not
met during the summer. We do have quite a full agenda for
Planning Board Report
Mr. Greenbaum: We've been very busy. We are dealing with
the regular applications and also the Hashemi application
which has come back to five of us who did not participate
in the original application. There was one meeting held.
The applicant granted an extension beyond the September
16th date set by the Court and we are looking to reschedule
another meeting. As of today, I'm not aware of when that
other meeting is going to be. It was originally to be September
26th but then Mr. Weiss was in San Francisco and he is the
only one that can Chair the meeting as per our local ordinances.
At the last regular Planning Board meeting we dealt basically
with three main applications: Woodfield, they came in for
final approval and there were several issues which had to
be addressed. Number one, they haven't gone forward with
some of the amenities that they were required to do to get
final approval, one of which being the finishing and getting
the swimming pool and club house on line. That had to be
resolved and then there was a major issue with regards to
setbacks and decks and whether or not, it is a very interesting
issue, whether or not a setback is applicable. The applicant
has made the argument that a deck is not a building and
therefore, not subject to the setback and therefore, there
is no setback according to the applicant and Chuck McGroarty's
position was that if the setback with regard to building
is not applicable, then what a deck is is really an accessory
structure which is not allowed at all in that particular
zone so it left the applicant between a rock and a hard
place in terms of what their argument is. The problem is
is that the houses are so clustered that anyone that puts
a deck on encroaches into the deck and it becomes a real
safety issue. That has to be resolved, a very interesting
President Scapicchio: That issue arose in the development
that you presently live in and Mr. Weiss was one of the
first applicants, when I sat on the Board of Adjustment,
same thing, the houses were clustered, the houses maximize
the building envelope and nobody could put a deck on without
having to go before the Board of Adjustment.
Mr. Greenbaum: There are several decks which have gone
in which are technically in violation. They are as close
as nine feet from each other. The next application that
the Planning Board dealt with was completion of the Riad
application with regard to the A&P shopping center in
Flanders. That was approved. He is going to be adding three
additional stores. It's going to make it almost like a "Z"
from the A&P and then you are going to have a building
which is going to be wedged in between that. He is going
to knock down a portion of the existing Ames shopping center
where the Wine Rack and Pink's. The Wine Rack is still going
to be there. They are just going to move it over and have
that corner space. The main concern there was obviously
the sound and lighting issues with regard to the adjacent
homeowners. The applicant addressed those issues to everyone's
satisfaction. The last application was extremely interesting.
It filled the room with some great concerns of the residents
of Mount Olive. It's the Rassimier (spelling) application
to build off of whatever the road is that runs parallel
to Drakestown between River and Drakestown. It's actually
between River and Drakestown. It's off Drakestown, Shop
Lane. It's an environmentally sensitive piece of property.
The neighbors were out in force. It was very interesting
because the applicant got the last part of the meeting after
the first two applications were heard and put on it's engineer
but the engineer was not the same engineer that had signed
off on the engineering plans and Ed Buzak had an issue with
whether or not he could testify or what weight and effect
the testimony of the engineer who didn't actually sign off
on the plans would be before the Planning Board. It wasn't
that he couldn't testify. It was just what weight and effect
that would have.
Mr. Spino: Was he from the same company?
Mr. Greenbaum: No.
Mr. Spino: I've never seen that.
Mr. Greenbaum: Neither had Ed. It wasn't that he wouldn't
allow him to testify because obviously they can put on whoever
they want to put on. Now the engineer has testified completely
at heresay, although the rules of evidence don't apply,
it was what weight and effect should be given to it. Ed
certainly advised the Board that they could give any weight
and effect and basically nothing was accomplished with regard
to the Rassimier application. I think it's on for the next
Planning Board Meeting. A lot happened at Planning Board.
Open Space Committee Report
Mrs. Miller: I think that the Open Space Committee keeps
us so well informed that I really never have anything to
report. They do a good job.
Legislative Committee Report
Mr. Guenther: I've sent information to Guy Gregg on the
traffic issues on the highways and he was going to get in
touch with the appropriate people but I haven't heard from
him. I would like to, Earl, at the last meeting, mentioned
that he had certain issues and I believe it's Mr. Rattner,
Earl and myself that are on that Committee. If we could
have a little meeting between us and get issues out on the
table so that I can take them to Guy Gregg or Scott Garrett
or whoever. Let me know when you guys can meet.
Master Plan Report
President Scapicchio: There is no Master Plan Report.
Pride Committee Report
Mr. Perkins: The next meeting is set for the 17th of this
month. The Pride Committee generously accepted the check
that was donated by the Council members and the Mayor to
the Junior Marauders Football Association. Again, this year
I presented the check to Howie Weiss. Last year we had started,
through the Pride Committee, where we picked up the cost
of the footballs for the youth to play with. Since we had
taken that item out of the budget this year, some of us
made personal donations and gave that to the Pride Committee
to present over to the Football Association. I do know that
Liz Ouimet is in the process now of looking at some holiday
banners. We'll be working with Marilyn Ryan. I'm trying
to work together with some of the holiday decorations around
the Township and unfortunately we were unable at this point,
unless something miraculous happens to get the billboard
changed quickly enough for tomorrow. We had put the request
in but there were so many requests for so many billboards
being done throughout the State, it was next to impossible
to get it done that quickly. It is what it is right now.
Toni Ayers, Sandshore Road: I want to start out with something
positive tonight for a change. 160 Sandshore Road has finally
been torn down. It's gone and it looks lovely and it's all
clear and I'm sure the gentleman is going to be putting
up his new house. I missed a few meetings so I couldn't
bring this up sooner. This Rocco person involved with Jennies
Lanes, this is the August 1st edition of the Mount Olive
Chronicle. Builder admits to exposing tanks on property.
Was he fined? Was this man fined for not abiding by the
laws of our Town in how to dispose of oil tanks?
Peter King, Dorsey & Fisher: That would be a DEP matter.
The State would have control over that.
Mrs. Ayers: DEP was out there and they said that there
was nothing wrong. That was a while ago. The reason I'm
so concerned is because I had two inground tanks removed
this summer and they cost me a lot of money, inspectors,
permits, special contractor who had to subcontract to another
contractor and this guy walks away with nothing?
Mr. Guenther: I believe, Toni, they were determined not
to be oil tanks. I don't know all of the details but that
is what the DEP determined.
Mrs. Ayers: He admitted to them.
Mr. Greenbaum: That is a story in the Chronicle.
Mr. Guenther: Do you believe everything the Chronicle tells
Mr. Greenbaum: As far as I know, I've never heard any piece
of evidence from anybody including admission from the owner
that they were oil tanks. So whatever the Chronicle said,
it's something I've never heard before.
Mr. Rattner: I think what the issue was if I remember everything
I read on it, the DEP said that they are only concerned
if it is commercial. If it is residential, it's local enforcement.
Mayor Licitra: No.
Mr. Rattner: I've got that in writing some place.
Mrs. Spencer: DEP is responsible.
Mr. Greenbaum: Did we ever find out that they were oil
Mrs. Spencer: No, one was said to be an old tank that had
been used for feed and one was filled with sand and one
was a water tank. At least that is what I was told.
Mr. Guenther: That is what the DEP determined.
Mrs. Ayers: He acknowledged that there had been another
tank which had been removed and he was looking for his receipts
for removal of two tanks. He didn't follow whatever.
Mr. Greenbaum: Does it say oil tanks?
Mrs. Ayers: No, tanks.
Mr. Greenbaum: So it doesn't say oil tanks.
Mrs. Ayers: Not specifically. I read that and I said, ya
know, the law is for everybody. Another comment that I have.
You baseball fans, I'm sure you watched the Little League
with the Harlem kids, the ones that won all of the
Did you happen to take note of their home field, what it
looked like? It was a tad above a sand lot and we're spending
millions and millions of dollars on playing fields and those
kids are champions and we don't have a winning team.
Mr. Perkins: If I could comment on that, I would tell you
that every one of the teams in the Mount Olive Recreation
League that came out as champions would differ with you
on that statement. They're winners whether they progressed
to State championships or not is another matter. I just
want to clarify that. Those kids put their heart and soul
in to that.
Mrs. Ayers: I know they do. Little League is great but
the fact remains that our teams didn't go to the Nationals.
Mr. Spino: Toni, did you see the field that they played
on in the Championships?
Mrs. Ayers: Okay, that is not a sand lot. It was a pristine
field and the second thing is, they are from the city and
my experience has been since I've spent more time then I
care to remember working there, teaching there, involved
in athletics for awhile, the city and the county spent millions
of dollars refurbishing fields in the inner city that I
saw and our teams played on them. In a year, you wouldn't
recognize it so it's not indication on whether they spent
money on it or not. It's just the abuse and misuse that
Mrs. Ayers: Any way, when I saw that field, I almost fell
off the couch. I think that the Soccer Club ought to kick
in some money for the Seward House. That will help that
way. I have a problem. It's been explained to me many times,
when I met Steve on the way in and it still isn't clear
to me. The special assessment reminder for our sewer bills
comes once a year. I am paid for 2002 which I paid in 2001.
They started sending bills. I got my first bill for 2003
in February of 02. Every time I get these bills, it looks
like we are getting ripped off. I don't understand it. I
was told that if I paid, the interest keeps going up from
the 1st of 02 till December. The technical due date is 12/1/02.
By 12/1/02 the interest in going to be like twice. I called
the office and I said, if I pay my bill by 9/1, what would
the interest be? As of that date, it would have been $121
but if I wait until December, it's going to be $162 but
yet it is a whole year ahead. You get a phone bill and you
get an electric bill. They give you 20 or 25 days to pay
the bill. Why are we getting these a year ahead of time.
It's alterior motive. We paid our money and it builds up
Mr. Rattner: I didn't understand that it was for next year.
What you did is you screwed up the system by paying your
assessment a year in advance. Usually the reminder comes
out at the beginning of the year, as I explained to you,
they want to give people time if they want to make payments
so they can have the money or be paid in full by December
1st. The interest then is for the current year. Maybe the
system, the way it is set up, since you paid 2002, when
it sends a reminder out, it just sends you the next one
that would be due. I don't know. I don't think many people
pay a year or two in advance. Either they pay it all off
or they pay it in the current year.
Mrs. Ayers: Then you get socked with the extra interest.
Mr. Rattner: If you pay at the beginning of the year, you
get the credit for the interest.
Mrs. Ayers: Like for 2003, why don't we get a bill around
November 1st to be due by December 31st and this is the
interest period. Why generate all this paper or send out
a bill in January of 2002 and say if you pay by May 1st,
this is what you pay, you get a break, whatever. It's a
confusing system, I think.
Mr. Rattner: I think the Administration can look into that.
The reason why they do it in the beginning of the year is
because a lot of people couldn't come up with $700 all at
once. That was one of the reasons for sending it out early.
Mrs. Ayers: You still have to come up with it. What's the
Mr. Rattner: You have time or you can put away a certain
amount of money each month. For people right before Christmas,
they don't want to have to come up with $700.
Mrs. Ayers: The walking paths, any date on that. I know
we got a grant from the State for $200,000 for the walking
paths for Turkey Brook.
Mrs. Spencer: We will be working out a plan as to when
we will put those in. Some of the paths are the paths between
the fields and paving on those is supposed to start tomorrow.
Mrs. Ayers: Okay. Thank you.
Ned McDonald, Budd Lake: Just a little comment about the
Seward mansion. Some of you on the Council, I believe, have
the right idea. It doesn't matter if it takes one year or
five years or one hundred years to have something done with
that house. It stood there for a long time and there is
no reason to even consider removing it. One other member
of the Council looks at it as more of a business decision,
wants a time frame. This building is part of the heart and
soul of the community and we can't just put a number or
a date of death of the house. If you want to really start
looking at buildings in Town that maybe we should put a
time frame on, what's going on with the old municipal building?
There were lots of discussions about that some time back,
committees, mailings. What happened to that? Where do we
stand with the old municipal building now? Nobody knows?
Mayor Licitra: Ned, let me try and answer that. When that
committee was put together we took a lot of their recommendations
from that committee and put them into existence. Some things
are the pier, the beach, etc., etc. We don't have the funds
at this point to consider what we want to do with the municipal
building right now. Not only that, we don't have storage.
We are doing some storage over there. If I were to tell
you that it was on our radar screen, yes, it is on our radar
screen but we just don't have the funds. We either have
to decide if we are going to renovate it for $2 million
or we are going to, I hate to say it, like some people say
it, like blow it up. I'm for you. I think we try and preserve.
I we going to try and preserve maybe a portion of it. With
our budgetary restraints this year and next year, I don't
know if we are going to have the resources to do that. I
did talk to Marc Gellman, the Chairman of that committee,
and he was pleased with the fact that we acted on some of
their recommendations but as far as the old municipal building,
no, it's a monetary thing.
Mr. McDonald: I think that is a fair thing. I just want
to encourage all of you to look around Town and any historic
or significant structures that we may have still in existence
in this Town, we should really do our best to hang on to
what we've got because once they are gone, they are gone
forever. Thank you.
Thea Dunkle, Mt. Olive Township Historical Society: I talked
to Bernie about the tarps. Jim Smith, our President, worked
with Jim Lynch this week. They went and took measurements.
They measured again, they made adjustments for the pitch
of the roof. The Historical Society, Jim Smith, ordered,
Friday morning, three 30 x 60 tarps with UV protection,
heavy duty tarps. So as soon as they come in with the help
of Jim and his people, we'll be getting those on the mansion
and I appreciate you letting us put them on there. The Historical
Society has also put a sign up, at our own expense, designating
it as a landmark. I have just recently gone up to Upstate
New York to William Henry Seward's home. I've been working
with the Director up there. We are second cousins to him.
I have been in touch, this last week, with about four relatives
of our Seward branch here. I am still researching and I'm
finding and they are coming and they are willing to help.
A lot of them weren't even aware of the history. The more
I'm finding, the more significant this house is. Chester
has Cooper Mill. Mine Hill has a miner's home that they
are restoring. Every town has something. The Mayor asked
me to write to the New Jersey Magazine to find out why we
didn't rate higher in culture and leisure. We have no art
galleries, we have no music venues. The recreation is going
to have a whole park. Let's just leave that little piece.
Give us some time. I'd asked permission to have Kathy Murphy
help us look for a grant. She doesn't have to write the
grant. I don't have time. I'm a guardian of a brother with
a brain injury. I work full time at Picatinny and I'm running
the Historical Society. I'm doing all of this research for
free. I don't get paid a dime. I do it all for free, hours
and hours. If we could just get Kathy to point me in the
right direction and help me but I got no answer. Basically
I think it was alluded to not help us. If Kathy can help
me find some grants to find a researcher, an architect,
we have to call a few. I've heard anywhere from $2,000 to
$10,000 depending on the price. Mr. Greenbaum, I can't give
you a time frame. We've got a marker on it. We're getting
the tarps on. We have names and we are going to be calling
to find out what an assessment
Mrs. Dunkle: would cost. Next, is getting grants. Please
just give us some more time. We are working on it. It is
one of our top priority projects.
President Scapicchio: Thea, I think this Council appreciates
the time, the effort and the commitment that not only you
but everybody else has put forth with regards to that and
I think that we all supported putting the fence around it
to protect it. We were all supportive of getting those tarps
to sort of cover that to protect it from additional damage
and we put on the Agenda tonight a resolution in support
of the County's reallocation of some of those open space
funds in hopes that if that passes, that's another avenue
for us to obtain some funds.
Mrs. Dunkle: Yes, I've been working on that. I filled out
all of the paperwork for the County.
President Scapicchio: Anyway, we appreciate all the time
and effort that you put in.
Mr. Rattner: If Thea's found the family that owned the
house, I think we should go down to Zoning and get property
maintenance to give them a notice to say to clean up the
yard. I understood where Mr. Greenbaum came from. He's concerned
that we just do something because we know that house, the
way it has been sitting, and the tarps, and you just gave
us some information tonight, it would deteriorate. Just
sitting and saying that we're going to let it sit, those
walls are going to start coming down. Once you get moisture
into the concrete, we know that it just falls apart if it
wasn't real quality concrete at that time. That's really
what the real issue was. I think everybody here is really
interested in it and doing it for as little funds as we
can, mainly with volunteers and that's what we are looking
Mr. Greenbaum: The record should be clear. I'd love to
say and restore that building. That wasn't what I was saying.
As Mr. Rattner said, it becomes
Mrs. Dunkle: We only acquired Turkey Brook in 96 and we
are just building. It takes some time.
Mr. Greenbaum: I wasn't saying it didn't take time, I just
wanted to know what the game plan was and maybe I can help
out in some fashion if I know the game plan.
Mr. Rattner: Cash.
Mr. Greenbaum: The only cash I could give, it wouldn't
even help put up the sign that you just purchased. That's
Mrs. Spencer: Thea, I apologize if you did not understand
where we were coming from in the past but the day after
you spoke last time, I asked Kathy Murphy to reach out and
start doing research and to try and identify any sources
that we might be able to tap to assist you in this rehab.
Mayor Licitra: Thea, my decision hasn't changed from the
beginning with the Seward mansion. I haven't waivered on
it one bit. I advised your committee as I advise everybody
else, if we can help you find the money, one of the ways
we are going to help restore it is to find the money to
restore it and as far as I was concerned, I thought we were
working on that all along. What you are telling me now is
a surprise to me. I had thought we were assisting you in
any way we could to go after that grant and I apologize
if we haven't but I was under the assumption that we were
Mrs. Dunkle: Kathy had said, she came back to the Historical
Society, I think I'm correct in saying that you thought
we'd need matching funds and we told you that, you find
the grant and Bill said he'd help me write them up, we'll
work together, and once we see what kind of money we need,
let's find out what's available, what we need and then let's
go forward with it and that really hasn't transpired but
I'll get with Kathy and maybe we can work on that. Thank
Mr. Perkins: Thea, how much did the tarps finally cost?
Mrs. Dunkle: What did they end up being? About $239 each,
Mr. Perkins: Where are you getting the funds for those
Mrs. Dunkle: We had some funds allocated for some projects
that we are doing. We had put aside some funds. We do have
a little bit of money left over from the money the Council
gave us. We put the Veterans on the monument, so we've used
some it. There is a little bit of that money left also.
Mr. Perkins: Come see me.
Mrs. Dunkle: Okay, thank you.
Dave Jones, Route 46, Budd Lake: Mr. Greenbaum, it only
costs $40 to join the Historical Society. Plus I think they
are selling those things on the wall for $50.
Mr. Greenbaum: When did you become a member?
Mr. Jones: Yesterday.
Mrs. Dunkle: He bought one.
Mr. Greenbaum: Yes, I did. Did you buy one of those?
Mr. Jones: Not yet.
Mr. Greenbaum: So, I'm $10 ahead of you.
Mr. Jones: Just a couple of things that I wanted to say.
The Turkey Brook Park is supposed to be the jewel of Morris
County. I was hoping that we could find funding somewhere
from Morris County. I don't know if any of that has been
done. Maybe we could go to the Freeholders and possibly
ask them to sponsor some portion of the park. I know that
you want this jewel and everything like that. I don't think
it has to be a jewel. I think it is being way over done.
I think too much money is being spent on that. For it to
cost over $300,000 a year to run the park, if we could just
get some of that back from the Freeholders or whatever.
As far as the Rocco's are concerned with the tanks, we keep
hearing all of these different things and I was hoping that
the Mayor could invite Mr. Rocco here to speak to the Council
regarding the tanks. You are related to him.
Mayor Licitra: That rumor probably started with you because
it is not the truth.
Mr. Jones: What is the truth then? Is it by marriage or
Mayor Licitra: It's not the truth. I have no relationship,
I have a relationship, I know the people but I know 80%
of the people in Town.
Mr. Jones: Are you related by marriage to him?
Mayor Licitra: No. I'm not related at all.
Mr. Jones: I didn't start the rumor. I heard it. You did
appoint him to a position.
Mayor Licitra: He was appointed. He volunteered for the
Industrial Committee or the Economic Development Committee.
I also appointed nine other people.
Mr. Jones: Would it be possible to invite him here so he
could speak to the Council regarding the tanks?
Mayor Licitra: Why don't you extend the invitation or have
the Council President do it? We've done a thorough investigation.
Mr. King: The State has investigated that when the complaint
was made to the DEP which is an independent body and the
DEP looks for violators and they take their job very seriously.
So they did thoroughly investigate that.
Mr. Guenther: Let me just interject since I was nominated
by my esteemed colleague from Flanders Crossing to be the
liaison with the citizens that were complaining. She had
been here at that time making substantiation that she had
a video tape which showed them dumping the tank. We were
very interested in that and wanted to see the video. We
had a conversation with her about that. I wanted to set
up a meeting. She wanted a meeting but there was no tape.
I said, what happened to the tape? The tape was sent to
the DEP. We checked with the DEP. The DEP never received
the tape. There was no tape as far as the DEP is concerned.
As you've transmitted to me, apparently she is made at me
for some reason. I was perfectly happy to meet with her
on the basis of evidence that she supposedly had that would
incriminate the Roccos and she was not able to produce it
and I've not heard from her since. We tried everything possible.
If she has evidence, if there is something there, they should
present it and we are perfectly willing to
substantiate what our Attorney said, the DEP did go out
there and they investigated very thoroughly and there is
a detailed report. I Mr. Guenther (cont'd): believe it is
on file. Cindy showed it to me. I don't have it here now.
It's on file and you are welcome to read it. It shows exactly
what the findings of the DEP were. What's the point?
Mr. Jones: I'm not saying that any one is right or wrong
here. It's a big issue. It's going to keep coming up. How
are you going to stop it?
Mr. Guenther: No, it's not, Dave. It's not a big issue.
It's a closed issue because
it's not going to keep
coming up, Dave, because the DEP, how are we going to stop
it? We are going to stop it because we are going to stop
talking about it. The DEP has determined that there was
no issue. How clear can we make that to you, Dave? And why
isn't Mrs. Uhrman here complaining about it. She's the one
that is affected by it. If she has a further issue with
Mr. Jones: I'm not saying you are right or wrong. I'll
I'm asking is if you would invite Mr. Rocco in.
Mr. Guenther: Why should we invite him? For what reason?
Mr. Jones: Because apparently he removed some tanks.
President Scapicchio: Here is where we are at with regard
to that situation. We had certain homeowners make some allegations
with regards to that builder and some supposed contaminated
oil tanks. One of those residents had claimed that they
had video taped and proof that they were in fact oil tanks,
that they were buried on site and they were handled in an
illegal manner. When the Council heard of that, the Administration
put together a report on what happened in terms of complaints
forwarded to the Health Officer. The Council put together
a committee who met with those homeowners, who again, told
this Council that they had proof, video tape proof, of those
oil tanks. When the Council committee met with those homeowners,
they failed to produce the proof, the tape that they claimed
that they had. The issue as far as we are concerned is a
dead issue unless those residents can put forward the proof
that they claim that they have. We've exhausted all avenues
to try and help them out. Inviting Mr. Rocco here is going
to help the situation, it's going to help nothing. It will
do nothing for us. So what's the issue? What is the issue?
Mr. Jones: I'm just asking if you could invite him here
and ask him what the tanks contained.
President Scapicchio: What would you like us to invite
him here for and what questions would you like us to ask
Mr. Jones: I'd like you to invite him here. Ask him how
many tanks there were, how many he removed, what the tanks
contained and that's it.
President Scapicchio: We have a report that says there
were two tanks, I believe, and they were water tanks.
Mr. Guenther: One was for water.
President Scapicchio: The issue is a dead issue, Dave.
Mr. Greenbaum: We are not the enforcement arm of the
dealt with a citizen's complaint.
Mr. Guenther: Why do you want us to waste our time and
bring Mr. Rocco here?
Mr. Jones: I'm not criticizing the Council. I'm not even
criticizing the Mayor or anything. I'm just asking you to
bring him in. I'm sorry you feel it is a waste of time.
It would just dispell a lot of things that are going around
Mr. King: I think what the Council is saying, you have
an independent investigating body of the State who did a
thorough investigation. They have much more power than this
Council would have. They issued a report. All the facts
are there. Also, this Council cannot compel Mr. Rocco to
Mr. Jones: I'm not saying compel him, just invite. I'm
just hoping too that we can find the funds somewhere in
the $6 million to save the Seward mansion, the money you
are going to spend on Turkey Brook because I think Bernie
is right on this issue where Chester has things, Long Valley
has things, historic areas. You look at every other town
and they have some sort of historic area and it does add
to the pride of the Township and I think it would look great
too. Thank you.
No one else wishing to be heard President Scapicchio Closed
the Public Portion.
Mr. Perkins: On behalf of my family, I'd like to thank
the Council and the Mayor and the people of Mount Olive
Township that showed their sympathy and support for the
loss in my family. Thank you very much.
President Scapicchio: The Council is going to go into a
brief executive session on the MOTPEA negotiations. When
we come out of executive session, we will take no action
other than to adjourn the meeting.
Motion made and seconded to go into closed session for
the purpose of MOTPEA negotiations. All in favor, the meeting
was closed at 10:05 pm. The meeting was opened at 10:10
David M. Scapicchio
Township Council President
I hereby certify the above to be a true copy of a resolution
passed by the Mount Olive Township Council at a duly convened
meeting held on November 12, 2002.
Lisa M. Lashway
Mount Olive Township Clerk