Township Council Minutes
October 8, 2002
The regular meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council
was called to order at 7:30pm by Council President Scapicchio
with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT ANNOUNCEMENT
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice
of this meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle
and the Daily Record. Notice has been posted at the Municipal
Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road Mount Olive Township,
New Jersey and notices were sent to those requesting the
ROLL CALL Present: Mr. Guenther (8:35), Mr. Greenbaum,
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner,
Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino, Mrs. Miller (7:37).
Also in attendance: Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator;
John Dorsey, Township Attorney; Sherry Jenkins, CFO; Nicole
Whittle, Deputy Township Clerk.
MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women
fighting terrorism and defending the freedom we all enjoy.
President Scapicchio: Council Members, I had a conference
call with our DPW Director Mark and Jim and Catherine this
afternoon and they have an emergency situation that they
wanted to bring to the Councils attention in reference to
the old Municipal Building. I asked for them to come to
the meeting this evening, I told them I would put them first
on the agenda. Charlene is going to be about 15 minutes
late. When I mentioned it, Charlene has her own thoughts
on what should happen there. Do you mind waiting for Charlene
to show up?
Mark DiGennaro, Director of Public Works: Not at all.
POLICE BASEBALL TRADING CARD PRESENTATION - Chief Katona
& Officer Abrusci
Chief Katona: It is a pleasure to be here again, before
I introduce Officer Abrusci I would like to just make a
few comments about the officer and his effort for this program
and this cop card program really has exceeded all of my
expectations. It represents the effort of what one officer
does to enhance the standing of the Police Department and
we have 48 other ones who are willing to do that for Mt.
Olive. To really show what this program has done I received
an E-mail from a fifth grader, 10 years old who contacted
me through our website which was also created by one of
our officers, if anybody wants to see it, MOPD.org. In the
email she requests one of my cards, I do have my own and
after some arrangement she comes in to see me. After that
she writes this; she thanked me for the cop card and she
states that the hardest thing about getting the cop card
would be asking for it the first time but she says that
after she did that she was actually embarrassed but then
she was very happy to meet the other Police Officers. She
goes on that after that meeting; my brother was hurt on
our trampoline and my mom had to call 911 for the first
time. Well my dad called because my mom was with my brother.
It was very scary for my brother and for us waiting and
not knowing if he was going to be okay. To make it worse
my brother has a developmental disability and his speech
is not very good Officer Eric Anthony was the first one
to arrive, there were two others there but I don't know
their names. The reason I remember Officer Anthony is because
he was great with my brother. He calmed my brother and my
mom down a lot. Last week my mom brought my brother Michael
down to meet Officer Anthony because my brother would not
stop talking about him. Officer Anthony again, was so nice
to my brother. He gave him a cop card, that my brother brings
everywhere and slapped him a high five. He also told my
brother he could bring the cop car over so he could see
it one day. My brother loves cops and cop cars and now he
calls Officer Anthony his friend. When we put programs in
place we say how do you measure the outcome, what is the
outcome? This is one of those things that you really can't
measure and we are very proud of this program and Officer
Officer Abrusci: Thank you for taking a few minutes out
of your time. I know most of the Council people here have
grown up in Town for those of you who do not know me, my
name is Joe Abrusci. I know Mayor Licitra had made a brief
presentation in reference to this and I just wanted to bring
a few things out and explain to the Council the program.
I had seen the cop cards out on the west coast in California.
A Los Angeles Police Officer had befriended me and showed
me the program that they were doing and I thought it would
be something neat to bring back here to our Department.
I addressed it through the Chief and the Fraternal Order
of Police, I got their blessing. Basically I spoke to several
of the businesses in Town who underwrote the expense of
doing the program, they absorbed all the expenses through
sponsoring the program so that there was no cost to the
Town, no cost to the Police Department. Additionally the
Fraternal Order of Police backed the program to help push
the program and further it along and fronted approximately
$1500 in savings bonds so that the first 25 kids here in
Town that collect Officer Abrusci (cont'd): all 54 four
cards would be given a savings bond as an incentive to help
meet the officers and help start the program along. As the
Chief has said this thing has taken off tremendously, much
better than we thought. Basically the idea behind it was
to form Community relations between the officers and the
youth here in the Township; for them to see us and be able
to speak with us and meet with us, invoke some conversation
and talk with them and let them see that we are not out
there just to lock people up and write tickets, but we are
there as friends in the Community. This has also sparked
several other investigations; we are now speaking with the
children, parents have come forward, it has led into some
other investigations in other areas where now they are basically
speakers with the officers where they may have been reluctant
to do so before. Surprisingly a lot of adults in Town have
actually approached the officers and approached several
of our members to try and get the full sets and collect
all of the cards because they feel like it is pretty interesting
to them as well. Like I said it has taken off much greater
than we had any idea it would. What I would like to do tonight
is to give each of the Council members, I would like to
present to you for you own keepsakes or whatever a set of
the cards for each of you here. There is a card for each
member of the Police Department, and a cover card right
on the top of the original Police Department which still
stands, the building at least on the corner of Mt. Olive
Road and Route 46. There is a little history on the Department,
a little bit of background on each of the officers and again,
a program where we are just trying to help the community
help further things along with Public Relations and for
the Public to see us that we are friends here of the residents
and the Community. Thank you for your time.
Chief Katona: I would just like to say that a tremendous
amount of time was donated by Joe to get this project off
the ground. I think he went beyond what he was allotted
to get this done. As I said we have 48 officers out there
willing to do things for this community. This particular
problem that this officer solved was what do we do? How
do we remove that window between the Officer and the Public.
This was one way to do that. So everybody here I would like
you to join me to give Joe a hand for a job well done.
President Scapicchio: Joe, thank you very much.
Mayor Licitra: Joe I can't thank you enough. I know your
mom is going to be very proud of you and if she wasn't she
would let you know. The Chief and I have been trying to
find ways of outreaching but this is past everybody's expectations.
There is not a day that goes by that I don't get around
the Town that one of the kids are asking me for cards. I
tell them if you want the cards, you have to go see the
Officer. I said it is easy for me to give you the cards,
I could walk around all day the and hand out the cards but
the reason is to go see the Officers. Let me tell you something,
I get asked at least once a day. I know there are kids that
come up here all the time with lists of what cards they
want and which cards they don't. It really a great concept,
thank you very much.
Mr. Greenbaum: I found it very interesting, the few times
I have been up here, the line at the dispatcher to get the
cards. It is really quite an amazing thing. Just another
thing, having nothing to do with the cards but the police
force itself; I was in Philadelphia on a Friday night and
my wife was at home and I have an Norwegian Au par who was
trying to dial out to Norway at about 2:00 in the morning
and for some reason could not the number and she kept dialing
911, it happened two or three times. I think within two
minutes 2 police cars were at my house. I do appreciate
the efforts of the Police Department.
President Scapicchio: Okay getting back to DPW, we have
Mark and Jim. Yesterday Catherine faxed me a report. I am
assuming it was prepared by DPW. They have an emergency
situation that they wanted to bring to our attention with
regard to the old Municipal Building roof. Mark, with that
do you want to take it over?
Mr. DiGennaro: Again we apologize for such short notice
but this is something that came upon us rather quickly on
Friday. In the old Municipal building on Route 46 that the
ceiling tiles within were saturated due to the leaks and
they collapsed in several areas. Immediately we were concerned
because we do have assets in that building from various
departments and what we had done was we had placed an order
on Friday to get a storage container delivered at a very
nominal cost for Thursday and we can transfer some of those
assets to keep them dry and secure. This morning Jim and
I had an opportunity to go there and give it a more thorough
look and see what the problems were. It is clearly the fact
that it is a flat roof and it is seeing the effects of time.
The roof is ripped open in several areas. The Flashing around
the power pits has separated causing water to leak in to
the building and I did some rough estimates on size and
what we need to look for to get this thing repaired in some
sort of reasonable and useful method. You are looking at
about 11,000 square feet which is roughly $55,000 - $60,000
of re-roofing. We are here tonight for some direction. We
don't know what the best course of action is going to be
for this building since we don't know what the future is
and what the future holds for it. We are taking the steps
to try and preserve and protect our assets that we have
in there. Every department has different issues and different
materials stored in there. The Building and the Parks and
Recreation Department uses that for the beach equipment
and beach gear and naturally I don't think we are going
to fit everything in a 40 ft. container, however we can
make our best efforts to protect the more critical assets.
President Scapicchio: Mark, are we buying that trailer
for $1,500, or is that a rental?
Mr. DiGennaro: We are purchasing it. With that I would
like to get some direction as to which way we should move
to try and whether to repair the roof or move to completely
abandon the building and vacate it.
President Scapicchio: Mark, after I had that conference
call with you and Jim, I called the Administration's office
back because I had recalled that some time ago when we were
studying the idea of using that for a Senior Center we had
a report done. Did you guys have a chance to get that report
and did you look at it. What are your thoughts with regard
Mr. DiGennaro: Well the report was prepared in 1997 and
it talks about different types of repairs that the building
would need to undergo for proper renovation. In summary,
the building is in poor condition from a structural standpoints
well as from a utility standpoint for HVAC, heating, electrical.
It says here that there is inadequate ventilation supplied
to the interior spaces of the building. The building envelope
is poorly insulated and the exterior plaster finish was
failing. It also indicated what I had indicated in our phone
conversation this afternoon that the concrete slab had settled
in several areas, it is progressively worse. In a nutshell,
they had gone to prepare a cost estimate of what they felt
at that time in 1997, what it would cost to rehab the building
to bring it into standard and to quote it, it was roughly
$692,000. Then the replacement of the roofing alone was
nearly $43,000. Where we are today with our estimate is
pretty close considering we are five years down the road.
President Scapicchio: Council, these gentleman are here
looking for some sort of direction. I shared with them this
afternoon my thoughts and the facts based on this report,
based on the condition of that building. Based on just the
cost of just repairing that roof, I was of the opinion that
rather than put money into that facility, that we should
probably consider demolishing the facility and any funds
that anyone thought would go into that could probably be
better used elsewhere. Mark had talked about a small pre-engineered
building to put down at the old sewer plant in Flanders
on Route 206 that could be used to store the material, the
files and the paperwork and the documents that are in that
building now. They could then use that for the trucks down
at the sewer plant. I shared with him that we wanted to
revisit the new DPW Building and see if we can somehow get
that cost down and somehow design it so that we could build
it in three stages so that we could begin that process.
That was the general gist of the conversation that I had.
I suggested that they come before this body to get some
direction from the seven of us, and that is what they are
here for tonight.
Mr. Rattner: Well obviously the first I heard about this
was about 15 minutes ago. I will just say that I am disappointed
because I remember that first report. I remember the different
teams that were put together to look at the uses of the
building. I know at the time we can go back to the minutes
at least four or five different meetings, I brought up the
fact that we should stabilize the building and repair the
roof. We knew it was leaking at the time and I was concerned
not just with ceiling tiles falling down, but obviously
if water leaks into the concrete, that is what weakens it.
Through the last five years or so the building has been
left to set the way it has been. I think it has been brought
up a couple of times by different people that it was being
done intentionally just to watch it deteriorate so it would
have to be torn down. I know there has been a lot of different
groups that have been interested in doing fund raising to
try and make use of it. That could never be used as offices
or something like that again, however it does make sense,
it is right on the lake for some of the different committees,
some of the different organizations. I know there was one
organization that has a lot of funds in Town that has made
inquiries into being able to lease it and they were willing
to refurbish it and now I just have to look to see how much
damage. Obviously if the last five years of leakage have
deteriorated the building to the point that it becomes cost
prohibitive to try to strengthen it, then maybe it has to
be torn down. I was not in favor of tearing it down five
years ago, I think it should have been stabilized. We have
the need for a certain amount of space there. We had a developer
willing to put a sewer line in so we could hook it up into
sewers at no cost to us and we never did anything with that.
So, just to hear this right now; it's not something that
I didn't expect would be happening, but it is very disappointing
and I would like to see the current status, what we have,
compare it to the old status before I make a decision.
Mr. Greenbaum: I have to disagree with Mr. Rattner on this
issue. In campaigning through Town a year ago, the Municipal
Building and the eyesore that it presents was one of the
most discussed issues. That is a valuable piece of property
that the Township owns that the Township could possibly
make revenue on if done appropriately and also provide a
service for their beach goers through some kind of commercial
establishment that could be leased on that property. I have
been in favor of removing that building since I have moved
into Town. I have been in that building several times over
the past few years and it is a pigstye. I don't know whether
or not that has changed. Whatever was stored in there was
stored in a haphazard manner. If there are any valuable
items in there they should be removed immediately and put
in some kind of storage whether it be in rented space or
in space that the we as the Township are going to provide
but as far as putting any money into that building I think
it is a waste of money and I would not be in favor it. I
find no historical value other than the fact that the building
is several years old with regard to saving that particular
building, so I would not be in favor of spending any money
to fix that building.
Mr. Perkins: Mr. DiGennaro, the backhoe that is out there
right now on the site, what work is being performed?
Mr. DiGennaro: We are installing a sewer service lateral
from the existing cleanout on Route 46 to tie into the Budd
Lake Sewer to service that location.
Mr. Perkins: That work is being done by?
Mr. DiGennaro: It is being done by a contractor hired by
Mr. Perkins: That sewer line, should be opt not to stabilize
the deterioration of the building. Would that sewer line
be appropriately used to provide adequate sanitary facilities
for your personnel now utilizing the Road Department vehicles
Mr. DiGennaro: At some point sure. I think there was also
some talk about bringing up some mobile bathroom facilities
for the beach goers, that would be able to tie into that
Mr. Perkins: One more question. The well is still considered
abandoned, am I correct?
Mr. DiGennaro: That is correct; the Township is not using
Mr. Perkins: On your cursory review and understanding that
you may or may not have expertise in structural engineering,
were there any other noticeable structural damages other
then the ceiling tiles and concrete or any of the wall joists,
beams or anything else apparently looking toward failure?
Mr. DiGennaro: Just from our review and it was supported
also by the review of the report which was prepared in 1997.
The settling in the center of the building which I believe
was the old Municipal Court area, there is some settling
in the slab and you can see that by the separation from
the ceiling and the walls and the trim moldings. It has
dropped about three inches. Also there was another section
that was built outside on a beachside which houses the stairway
and there is a separation there, the second floor of about
two to three inches just indicates that it was not tied
in properly and that's settling over time. We could see
where we have actually sprayed foam insulation to try and
fill the gap and that has pulled away as well.
Mr. Perkins: The file system and understanding when people
take file systems and the first day everybody stacks them
up real nice and then after about eight or nine trips of
going down to try and find something they look like a pigstye
after that. All of those files, historical documents, records
for all the departments; I understand you want to get a
Mr. DiGennaro: Well, that was the quickest thought to get
something dry and secure where we could padlock it, but
that is the intent. We have been in the process where all
departments have been going through their records over the
years to archive what is important and then destroy for
others which is a process to be filed with the State and
the Clerks Office.
Mr. Perkins: Then I guess one last question, and this probably
goes over to the Mayor; the committee that was formed in
August of 1998 when we formed the Pride Committee. Is that
still a viable committee?
Mayor Licitra: I talk to the Chairman maybe once or twice
a year. Their recommendations other than most of the recommendations
of that committee as far as the beach has been completed,
but as far as the building, again it is a matter of just
trying to find the funds to either do something or not do
something with the building. What we have been doing all
these years is maintaining the building as best as we could.
Again, this roof would have been this roof no matter what.
There is nothing other than repairing the whole roof, this
roof got old and it leaked. It is as simple as that. It
is five years older than it was five years ago. The roof
and this is just a portion of the roof, it is the whole
roof and I don't see anything that we could have done except
repair the whole roof at the cost of whatever it was at
Mr. Perkins: My concern would be to see how the Historical
Society, the National Preservation Trust Fund or any other
funding that might be available should that be deemed appropriate
that we look at that. Obviously I would like to see the
records and everything else I think you gentleman are moving
in the right direction for. I wouldn't be ready to vote
for not preserving the building at this point. The building
is at a deterioration point, whether we do anything today,
tomorrow or next week it is not going to slow down the deterioration
process. So, unfortunately I can't vote to not provide the
Mrs. Miller: I find it very sad that we have to discuss
this again after so many years of discussion a few years
ago. Committees were formed and polls were taken and it
seemed to me that the Community at large was in favor of
saving this historic landmark. My biggest concern as it
was years ago when we first discussed this is if we tear
that Mrs. Miller (cont'd): building down because of lack
of funding to stabilize it, I rather doubt the DEP is going
to allow us to build another building in that exact location
because of the wetlands regulations. That building was built
before we had wetland regulation. You tear it down and you
want to build a new beach facility, but I think you are
going to be surprised that you may not be able to do that
and I seem to recall that when the discussion of what to
do when the municipal building cam up and there was so much
debate that we had asked for someone to look into the DEP
regulations that if that building was torn down, if we could
build in that location and if not how and where can we build.
I don't ever remember hearing anything about that. I would
like to hear from the DEP as to what will happen if we tear
that building down and what would be the building envelope
for building any kind of beach facility before I will vote
to tear that building down.
Mayor Licitra: We will get you an answer for that Charlene.
I don't know if you asked this Administration.
Mr. Spino: From what I could remember regarding what Charlene
had just mentioned, we did contact them I think through
Chuck McGroaty. However, they would not give us a definite
answer before the horse is out of the barn. They didn't
really know. We got the impression that it would be possible
to rebuild it but having said that I am not in favor of
that, I have never been in favor of tearing the building
down. Some people say, well it is not a historical building.
What makes it historical? We make it historical, if we feel
it is a historical building to this Township regardless
how old it is. This is part of what Mt. Olive has been whether
it is a few years old or many years old. The fact that it
was something else before it was the Town Hall and how the
Town got it. It was given to the Township from what I remember
what I was told about it anyway. I think it is something
we should keep. Having said that I think we should look
into making some minor repairs if it is possible, if it
is not possible then I am not going to beat a dead horse
and say we should do it. I do think that we should work
to the most extreme extent that we can and try to maintain
it. I am not talking about spending $600,000. I am talking
about using part of that building; to maintain part of it
as the History of the Township. Looking at other property
that is much older, down the road here, I think that is
part of what we are missing as a Township. I think Steve
has mentioned it a few times. The Mayor asked, was it last
year or maybe the year before an article came out in New
Jersey monthly and part of what we were missing were cultural
things, historical things. I think that is part of what
we have to keep. It is part of what this Township is whether
you like it or not. Whether it is an old casino where they
used to have a nightclub, that is part of what the Township
was and we should keep it.
President Scapicchio: I think the issue for the Council
is whether or not we are prepared to invest any money, some
money, or a lot of money into a facility that has no useful
Mr. Spino: I don't agree but I don't want to get into an
President Scapicchio: There is nothing to argue Earl, if
you look at the Coppelson analysis six years ago you are
looking at $650,000 and $750,000 to bring that building
into a condition where it can be used.
Mr. Spino: That is what I would argue and I don't want
to get into that.
President Scapicchio: Well how would we argue that?
Mr. Spino: That fact, is that was done at a time when the
majority of people wanted a Senior Citizen Building and
the Municipal Building out of there. That is why it was
done like that. The report we got before said we should
have built up at the Flanders Valley Tennis Courts.
President Scapicchio: I don't think anybody Earl, that,
has any idea of the cost of renovating those types of buildings
and would question the amount of money needed to rehabilitate
that to a safe useable condition. So again the question
is are we prepared tonight to authorize these gentleman,
the Administration, to spend money to either secure, protect
or fix that roof.
Mr. Rattner: Again I will say, even though I said what
my personal opinion was and what's happened up until this
point, how could I make any decision. I have know idea,
for one thing we need an estimate, how much is it going
to cost us to tear down the building and take it to the
transfer station or wherever it has to go? If we tear it
down do we have to clean it up under the brown fields and
those types of issues where we also have to do all the remediation
on the land? We also should know; can anything be built
there? Is there a way of doing it so we can preserve the
pad so then it is rebuilding rather than a new structure?
A new structure you are not going to be allowed, anybody
can read the wetlands ordinances and some of the laws that
have been passed, they are getting more strict all the time
on what you can build there. So one of the issues that has
to come up; maybe if you leave the foundation you don't
have to build on the foundation. So there are a lot of different
issues. It is going to come down obviously to economics.
We have heard a lot in the last year or two with a lot of
our projects, it is nice to have, has to have and that type
of thing. It is going to come down to can we afford to do
what we want. Can we afford to do a little less than we
want or is the only way out and it may be, that has to be
torn down because there is no way we can
Mr. Rattner (cont'd): financially afford to keep it up.
But we have absolutely no data. We got some heresay, we
got an old report, I remember that old report at the time.
Emphasizing what Mr. Spino said, we even discussed at a
couple Public Meetings that, that report was based on the
fact of the input that was given to it. That they were looking
to put everything that they could find in there because
they were trying to show that it would be cheaper to build
a brand new building back here. We know there could always
be a little bit of a slant to it that way. I said it at
the beginning, it may have gotten to the point where the
building has to come down. I have know idea. If we are told
that the roof and whatever else is not anything different
other than cost than what it was back in 1997, because in
1997 I felt we should have put a new roof on it, got the
sewer hooked up so at least we would have the bathroom and
then start looking for the different groups; the Historical
Society, the Lake Committee, the Italian Club said that
they were willing to do something because they would like
to have a place to meet on the Lake. The Knights of Columbus,
which have made a couple different inquiries into actually
leasing the building and then spending their own money to
fix it up and still leaving it open to the public. So there
are a lot of different options and we don't have anything.
I think that is a whole workshop in itself.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don't necessarily disagree with Steve
this time as not knocking the building down. I think it
really comes down to a question of whether or not we are
going to put money in at this point. We are not deciding
whether or not to knock the building down. Steve has not
told me what his position is on that yet. I know that Steve
does not have the number. You don't know what it is going
to cost to put money in to the building, but somebody has
to make a decision as to whether or not we are going to
actually go out and spend money to at least keep the building
in the same condition that it is in today. So we can't just
put off the decision because we don't have the information
because in the meantime, the building is going to sustain
Mr. Rattner: We have to get the information so that we
can make an intelligent decision.
Mr. Greenbaum: I am not in favor of spending any money
to fix that building. I agree with Steve that we need to
figure out before we knock the building down; we need to
figure out what our options are in terms of moving forward.
President Scapicchio: Mayor you heard Steve's comments
for the additional information. Can you and your Administration
somehow put together that information and come back to us
so that we could then make an informed decision based on
the information you have come back with and if you need
some help from an outside source, let us know, we'll see
if we could give you the authorization to do that. Maybe
Schoor Deplama's firm could be of some assistance. But lets
try to put the tools on the table so that Mr. Rattner and
the rest of us can make an intelligent decision.
Mrs. Miller: Also add to that information how much it would
cost just to fix the roof where it is leaking because at
a bare minimum I would like to patch the roof. The cost
he gave us was to reroof the whole thing.
President Scapicchio: I had this discussion with the both
of them this afternoon. When you get a roof that is that
old or in that condition, all you are going to do is chase
it and you will continue to chase it until you spend twice
as much as if you ripped it off and put and new one down.
So I am not sure that is a realistic option.
Mr. Perkins: Are we still directing these gentlemen to
go ahead with the trailer?
President Scapicchio: We have no choice, but I think before
we are asked to put any kind of money into that whether
it is remediation or a canvas to protect it in it's present
Mr. Dorsey: Let's itemize the questions. The first question
is, what is the estimated cost to stabilize the building?
What is the estimated cost to demolish the building? If
the building is demolished, to what extent can we get reassurances
or to what extent or how can one demolish and still get
authorization to rebuild on that site. That is a particularly
President Scapicchio: Does size matter John?
Mr. Dorsey: To build anything on the site, that is the
real trick question and obviously you are going to have
to call on Gene Buczynski to get some help there.
Mayor Licitra: The fourth option is to bring it down to
the original building if you wanted to save it something
like the original building that was put up without the extensions
and just demolish the rest of it and see what it what the
cost would be to
Mr. Dorsey: That's like 2A. First is to demolish the entire
building, and 2A would be the cost to demolish everything
except the main structure.
Mr. Rattner: From our discussions two years ago, I think
Mr. Spino may remember, I think that was really what we
wanted to do. We wanted to take down all the added on stuff
because we felt that the base building and the walls were
not going to come down and it was basically going to be
a big open area because it was a dance hall and that is
what we were going to use to take down the non-bearing walls
because they served no purpose.
President Scapicchio: Mayor, do you think about a month
is sufficient time?
Mayor Licitra: I was just talking to Jim and Mark. They
cannot stabilize that building without either repairing
it or taking it down, so I mean you can't just put tarp
over it and hope the rain does not come in. How does two
President Scapicchio: Just do the best you can. Get back
to us as quick as you can and when you are ready, tell Lisa
and we will put it on the next Workshop.
Mr. Rattner: We rather get the good information. We are
going to get the records out which have to be done. Right
now it has been sitting for five years, if it is another
month or two it is not going to make that much of a difference.
Lets be sure that when we look at the options that we are
satisfied with the information we got, and then we can make
a decision and be satisfied that we made the right decision.
Mr. Perkins: Once that snow load starts getting on that
roof that is going to be a lot heavier than any rain water
and that could be the final straw. Whatever we do, we need
to get something moving, we're in the middle of October.
Mr. Spino: I would like to bring up a point that Steve
mentioned, I don't think any of us have been in that building
in quite some time. I would like to arrange a visit so that
we can all look at it.
President Scapicchio: Mayor, you will work that out and
let us know?
Mayor Licitra: No problem.
President Scapicchio: Are you guys clear on what you think
the Council is looking for?
Mr. DiGennaro: Yes. One question; I understand that walking
on the roof alone causes more damage to it than anything
else. Should we make an attempt to try and get some roofing
cement up there to see what we can do is that worth the
Mr. Rattner: If you are talking the matter of a month,
I don't think that makes a difference.
President Scapicchio: Will have solid direction with this
in a month.
Mr. DiGennaro: Thank you. Thank you for your time.
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD
Bob Elms, Budd Lake: I don't always agree with Earl but
in this case I do. When I first moved up here in 1969 and
my parents came to visit, they reminded me that when they
were dating they used to come up and go to the casino at
Budd Lake and it took them almost a day to drive up through
Summit, Morristown and probably five tires on the car to
get here because the roads at that time were just earth
and roads. It has been there before I was born and I don't
know what it takes to get a historic building, but certainly
65 plus years should put it in that category. I also agree
with what Charlene said, when we were talking about a new
Municipal Building and they were talking about what to do
with the old Municipal Building it was said at that time
that was in DEP designated flood hazard area and if we took
it down we could not replace it with anything. If we take
that down we have I think six garages in the back of that
building that are accessory to that so if you can't have
accessory buildings on a building lot according to our zoning
ordinance we have to take everything down that is there
and I think we will be doing ourselves a big in justice
in not trying to do something with a building, even if we
spent the $600,000 that you are talking about to bring that
up to some sort of a code so somebody could rent it as a
restaurant or whatever. It is better than spending $6 million
on a new building that we seem to do pretty easily. Thank
Russ Tepper, Flanders: Good evening, my name is Russ Tepper,
I am here tonight on behalf of the Mount Olive Jr. Mauraders
Football Association. I would like to publicly thank the
Council and the Mayor for the support that they have provided
the organization and specifically recognized Jim Lynch and
his Department the Parks and Grounds Facility for what they
have done for the Football Association in helping us realign
the fields so that we can better share it with soccer. And
as for the condition update kept it in maintaining it this
year. They have done an
Mr. Tepper (cont'd): outstanding job, it is in the best
condition I have seen it in the three years I have been
part of the organization and I just wanted that recognized.
Thank you very much.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Russ.
Dave Jones, Budd Lake: I just want to say the old Municipal
Building is older than a lot of people here, if not older
than everybody here. If that does not make it a historical
building I don't know what does. I also want to say it's
a landmark and I believe it is probably one of the most
recognizable buildings on Route 46, if not in Morris County,
in Northern New Jersey. You found the money for Turkey Brook
Park and you found the money for the new Municipal Building.
I think you can find the money to restore the old Municipal
Building. One thing that bothers me, if it is indeed a pigstye
like Rob said, who is accountable for that? I believe the
finger should be pointed at the current Administration.
President Scapicchio: Dave I don't agree with everything
Paul does, but I can't see how anyone can point the blame
or lay the condition of that building at the feet of anyone
up here. That building is an antiquated building but no
fault of anyone here.
Mr. Jones: When I hear it is a pigstye; I would like to
see photos of the inside to be totally honest with you.
If it is really a pigstye, how did it get to be a pigstye?
Who's negligent there?
Mr. Lynch: Before I was employed with the Township, there
were files that were stored in that building when this building
was occupied. Those files at some point were transferred
to the Police substation that was rented in Flanders when
the lease was terminated or that place was sold. I am not
sure of the history of that particular piece of property.
The Parks Buildings and Grounds staff was in charge of moving
those boxes back into the old Town Hall. Because there is
not climate control in that building, the boxes that the
files were stored in have deteriorated over the time they
have been in there. Those boxes periodically give way. The
glue on them gives way, they are moist in the summer, they
dry out in the winter. That's why many of those files have
spilled on to the floor. My staff is responsible to some
extent for trying to keep some order within that building,
however with the other duties we have in town, we cannot
focus daily efforts in that building. A lot of the "pigstye"
is a result of lack of climate control, substantial water
leaks. We have been chasing the leaks on that roof. My staff
regularly patches that roof, we are on that roof to replace
the spotlights over the flag on the font of that building,
we try to keep up with it, but the pigstye was created because
there is no climate control and at that point you cannot
maintain documents, they absorb boxes and the water climate.
Mr. Ratter: Jim, I have been in there, it is not just files,
and I can understand that. Then it becomes how come we let
them if they were important files in there to deteriorate
if they are needed and if they are not they should have
been dumped. Although there is broken furniture, computer
equipment piled up from the floor to the ceiling from day
one. There is a canoe sitting in the middle. There is a
lot of stuff that was put in there and I know that has nothing
to do with you. I think a lot of it is because it was used
to store garbage.
Mr. Spino: It's used as a warehouse.
Mr. Ratter: The stuff that is in there is garbage, it should
have been thrown out.
Mr. Lynch: Yes, there is furniture that is broken, it is
furniture that has been transferred out of this facility
over time or was never transferred to this facility. There
is a plan and I am not sure what the status is, I cannot
be 100% positive as to what they are trying to do. The computer
equipment and some of the furniture was warehoused to possibly
auction off. There is a general hesitation by the staff
to demolish anything that is owned by the Township. So we
try the warehouse as best as we can and then auction when
the time is right. The Police Department has bicycles stored
in the back portion of the room. It has escaped us at times
to get order in that building. We will make an effort to
clean it up. If you would like, we can take some of that.
Mr. Ratter: I am not blaming you; I am just saying that
the files and all of that have been in there for years.
Mr. Lynch: I apologize for the canoe, but that is storage
for the Beach use so they could set up their stuff in the
Mr. Spino: But somebody has got to go in there with the
authority enough to say this is junk, get rid of it. I don't
think a Township Employee is going to take that responsibility,
but the fact that somebody might come in and say, who threw
this away, I wanted it. Somebody has got to make that decision
and then get it all cleaned out.
Mr. Jones: The only other thing I wanted to say is that
I think it would have a great second life as a museum or
something for the benefit for the Township. That's all,
Ned McDonald, Budd Lake: The question of what's historical
is certainly debatable, but maybe 50 or 100 years from now
the President, Administration and the Governing Body of
this Town will look back and say, gee if we only saved this
building. I look at the Seward Mansion, what if a group
of people decided 50 years ago; well we have no further
use for that. Let's tear it down because it is going to
cost us a lot of money to keep it up. Maybe it will cost
a lot of money, and maybe it isn't worth saving, but we
are too quick, not in just this Township but in this whole
country, to tear things down. We have nothing of historical
value unless it has a monetary value to it. So if we can't
make money on it, we don't keep it. Some countries look
at that different. They look at the heritage that is being
worth something and I thought that we went through this,
we were going to form committees and the Town residents
were going to have an input. That sort of dies on the vine
and nothing really came of it. I know there were some plans
made with and intentions, but now we are at the point to
let it deteriorate and now we have to tear it down, it is
almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Almost like somebody
is looking for a reason to tear this building down. Maybe
it has to be torn down, maybe it doesn't. Please look at
our Township of what few things we have here that have some
value other than just in the present and what can be made
money as a tax base or as a commercial institution. The
only one I could, think of right now is the Seward Mansion
and that has almost been lost through neglect. Myself as
one residents opinion, I think we should put it back to
the original condition of when it was first built and try
to do the best we can, if not bring it up to modern specs
at least to stabilize the building and maybe in future years
we can find funding to do more with it. Thank you.
President Scapicchio: Thank you, I am sure we are going
to have some significant discussion on this.
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: My first opinion, and I have
said this before, the Township probably possess one of the
ugliest pieces of property in the Town. That building really
has a limited historic value. For about three years it was
an unsuccessful business establishment that could not make
it as a casino/restaurant/dance hall. It went in to bankruptcy
and that is why the building was given to the Town and it
became our Municipal Building. It does not have any great
hey day to it. All of those buildings which are extremely
ugly, thousands of people drive through Mt. Olive Twp. everyday
on Route 46 and that is what they see. That piece of property
with decrepit buildings and they say this is Mt. Olive.
That site could be cleaned up and be turned into a beautiful
site that that would enhance the image of this Town if we
do something. Now I was the head of a committee in 1999,
I resigned from that committee in late 2000. We investigated
whether or not you could rebuild on that site. Verbally,
Chuck McGroaty got commitments from the DEP that yes, you
would be able to rebuild on the existing footprint or smaller.
They advised us that we needed to contact them in writing
and then they would write us back. We had Mr. McGroary at
a number of our meetings that we had here in this building
and Mr. McGroaty advised us that the Administration would
not allow him to write that letter to the DEP, so we never
got it in writing. When this building was built, and that
building became vacated, some of you were here, everything
was supposed to come out of that building. There was not
supposed to be anything left there. Many of us took a tour
of that building in September of 1999 and those of you who
were on that Tour knew what was in there. Files, garbage,
junk. Mr. Jones, you can't blame Mayor Licitra for this,
it happened long before he was the Mayor. The fact is, nothing
has come out of there and in fact more has been stored there.
There were files up in the attic that had been shoved up
there and they are probably still up there. That building
should probably be torn down and all those back buildings,
we had gotten an estimate of $60,0000 to get them torn down.
The committee fell apart because we had done an evaluation
throughout the Township, I think we've received back almost
1,000 surveys, I don't know where they are right now, we've
gotten some input from the community, but the community
was relatively split on what should be done. I resigned
from the committee because at that time in late 2000, the
Mayor was making arrangements with Senator Littel without
the committee's knowledge, it was supposed to be getting
some money to do something at the site. I don't think we
have ever gotten a nickel. We need to take a very serious
evaluation of that facility because I think we have a site
that could be enhanced, maybe with that building, maybe
not. But I still firmly believe that through some type of
public.private setup, we could set up some type of establishment
that would make some commercial endeavors some money, make
the Township some money and make an exquisite site over
there. Whether it be restaurant, bathing, entertainment,
whatever. But you have an asset there that when people drive
by this Town, they would look at that and say wow, this
is a nice place to live. But I am not in favor of putting
any money into that building under the present conditions.
Mr. Spino: I don't think anybody argues the fact that with
or without the building we could make it into an exquisite
site. Some of us just believe that with the building it
could be just as exquisite, even more so because it will
have in some of our minds some historical significance.
I did want to mention the fact that you talked about the
back buildings like we want them there. We were ready I
think in last years Budget or this years Budget to remove
those buildings when we started construction or under completion
of construction of a building here. It was not kept in the
budget for very simple reasons, monetarily, so we were told
we needed to keep those buildings because there is equipment
stored there. Once we are able to put that equipment somewhere
else, then those buildings will come down. That was part
of the plan from the very beginning and that is one of the
reason's the committee I was on really stopped it's deliberation
and meetings because what needed to happen at that time
was for the Township to expend some funds. Luckily we did
expend some of our own funds and State funds to do some
of the things that our Mr. Spino (cont'd): committee recommended,
I am just waiting for myself personally, for us to be able
to knock those other buildings down, I would like to be
there for that.
Cheryl Goodwin, Drakestown Road: I find it kind of disturbing
to hear someone say, well you found the millions for Turkey
Brook and I am not real happy reading about that. You found
the millions for the new Senior Center, and you find the
millions for this, etc
It seems as if we've gone into
a period where we could find the millions for anything and
everything. We are discussing the historic value of a building
in this Township, I just hope we are remembering that historic
value; there are many people who have lived here most or
all of their lives, we are on fixed incomes who have worked
for big companies, with the buyouts, which is more and more
common where they are on very limited means and with all
the millions we are finding for everything it is going to
get to a point where only the people who are able to come
in and buy the very big expensive houses are going to be
able to afford to live in Mt. Olive and I think Mt. Olive
is going to lose a lot of historic value in losing all of
those people who could no longer afford to live there. Thank
President Scapicchio: Thank you.
Colleen Labow, Budd Lake: Lets do something, enough is
enough, 23 years I have been here, 23 years nothing has
been done. Not that anybody isn't trying, but lets get a
committee, lets just follow it through. I keep hearing committees
are formed and they are disbanded and we just have to really
kind of complete it. On a lighter note, and I really hate
to bring up the subject of the billboard on Route 206, but
I have to say it is the nicest billboard I have ever seen.
I don't know if anybody has driven by, it's gorgeous. I
drove by and it's all lit up it says Fall into Mt. Olive
and it has the park bench.
President Scapicchio: I am disappointed the Mayor's name
was not on it.
Mrs. Labow: I did not look for the names, I just saw how
beautiful it was and I just thought that it was absolutely
gorgeous I just want to thank the Pride Committee, who ever
chose this, it is absolutely the nicest one I have seen
yet. Thank you.
Mr. Jones: Everybody knows me and everybody knows that
I am the biggest stickler here about money being spent.
We are talking about Turkey Brook Park which is $6 million.
If there is $600,000 spent on the roof to save a historical
building in the Township, I won't complain about that, but
as far as $600,000 spent on a park we could have spent half
that and have just as many fields and everything like that.
I think it is money well spent for a historical building.
That's all, thank you.
President Scapicchio: Anybody else from the Pubic? Seeing
Mrs. Jenkins: I just wanted to update everybody on the
School Board Sewer Project, Gary Higgins and I are going
to be meeting with some representatives from the School
Board next week because we are just about ready to actually
finalize the close out of that. We were saying before to
the Mayor, that is the one pending issues that goes back
at least for me to the previous Administration. Just to
let you know that we are pretty much ready to wrap that
up, the numbers came out to agree with the information that
Gary has prepared in his report back in December of 2000.
TURKEY BROOK PARK PROJECT STATUS
Jim Lynch: Since Cindy is not here, she asked me to read
a prepared statement. GPU has been on the site and working
to install power since Wednesday October 2, 2002. The rain
on Friday delayed the work so we were hoping that it would
be out and finished by today. Dakota soil tests will be
received for the soccer fields. I have received preliminary
test results today. The PH was slightly high but that could
be corrected, we expect the contractor to put in the proper
amendments and precede with sodding as soon as the irrigation
system is tested. The building contract has been released
to the firm of Consolidated Building Court. The preconstruction
meeting has been scheduled for October 25, 2002. It is anticipated
that the building phase will take approximately 4 ½
months to complete. Areas of the fields which have required
regrading have been remediated and inspected. This needed
to be completed before the laying of sod to ensure proper
irrigation and drainage. Sewer line testing has been completed
on site, Century Pump has been asked to reconsider their
price quote for the two 24 hour static water tests. We anticipate
the test to be done within the next two weeks. An example
will be scheduled prior to the start of the sodding. Verizon
is coming on the site they will remove the overhead lines
from the old utility poles and run new lines to the baseball
tower. There will be a payphone installed at the beginning
of the loop Road. There will be a phone line run to the
barn facilities in the event that is utilized down the road
as maintenance facility. Myself and Tom Malavasi are currently
working to create
Mr. Lynch (cont'd): directional signage plans for the park,
we will still need to identify the type of entrance Mr.
Lynch signage to be used. We plan to discuss this at the
next Turkey Brook Park Developmental meeting and get some
Mr. Buczynski: Just to clarify a couple of the items too
that Jim mentioned. Relative to the Sewer lines, they haven't
all been tested. There are still two laterals that need
to be finalized. Some problems with the test, they did not
pass and they are going to come back and finish those two
lines. The electric irrigation pump will be done by tomorrow
and GPU will be on the site on Monday and I think next Monday
is when they should get the site going as far as electric
goes and then we will move ahead getting the irrigation
system going and get the sod on the fields. Regarding the
paving, there is black all over the place, the only thing
we don't have is the top course, and we will wait until
everything else gets to the point and put the top course
down. As far as pavement, the base course is down throughout
the site. As far as the wells I am not sure what was said
last week when I was away but the second well we drilled
does have the capacity and has not been tested yet. Century
Pump should be out there actually tomorrow to do the test,
and we were given the names of the two homes. One was on
Sunset and one was on Flanders - Drakestown, when he does
the 24 hours test in those pumps and I think Council requests
that it be done simultaneously so it will do that. It looks
like we will just be able to use the one well full time
which is the further one away by the football field and
we will still have a pump in the second one. Just to kind
of go ahead regarding change orders. To date, the only thing
that I know of at this point are a couple of small ones.
We have not received cost yet, but relative to the location
of the new pump, we have to give power to that pump. So
it's about 200 ft. that we are going to have to pay for
a line to get power into the new well location. I would
say that is probably going to be between $1,000 - $2,000.
Also regarding that there is a pipe to go from the well
to the inlet where we are going to discharge into the storm
drainage system to go toward the pond, again that is a small
item. That is probably 100 feet of pipe so we are talking
minimal money. Other ones we talked about regarding Conte
and regarding the football field, just to know that is still
out there. Also the fence, we all know about the fence around
the distention basin, I guess Conte is not going to be doing
it, we are going to do it later on but that is still going
to be an additional cost to the project, not a change order
to Conte, but additional costs.
President Scapicchio: We are going to talk about it later
Mr. Buczynski: Okay. Then the poles and netting around
the soccer field adjacent to the detention basin, but that
is all I know of at this point. I have to apologize because
I only spoke to Rob and I know it was brought up at last
weeks' meeting regarding the change order resolutions up
tonight about construction management services. I was not
misleading the Council at the time, when I was asked I always
talked about construction costs, as far as the cost were
discussed last week, I was really trying to get all the
back up together I did not want to discuss it until it I
had it in writing and it did take me longer than expected
but I apologize. I was not trying to mislead to you that
all the cost were previously taken care of.
Mr. Greenbaum: Several questions, with regard to the Schoor
Depalma contract, was that something that we are going to
be able to ask Gene questions about later when we actually
President Scapicchio: Ask him now.
Mr. Greenbaum: Your original estimate of the $80,000 was
based on time and materials at the site
and you had estimated about four hours worth of time at
the site per day, correct?
Mr. Buczynski: Correct.
Mr. Greenbaum: As a matter a fact your firm spent about
six hours of time per day at the site.
Mr. Buczynski: That is what it averaged, correct?
Mr. Greenbaum: What is the difference? How did that difference
in terms of your need to be at the site? How did that occur?
Is that because of additional difficulties?
Mr. Dorsey: The one difference that was discussed last
week was his original estimate that was based upon a six
month period for construction. That estimate was made before
the contract went out to Conte which in it of itself had
seven months in it. So his estimate at the time was a month
off to begin with through no fault of his own.
Mr. Buczynski: That is true. Thank you John. Regarding
the costs on a daily basis, there have been problems that
have been well documented by people and we are out there
on a much longer than need basis than we have to be out
there. I don't know how we could say four hours and pack
our bags and go home. When there are problems that we have
to deal with during the day.
Mr. Greenbaum: I am not questioning the time that you have
actually had to put in the site. I am not questioning why
there has been a need. For additional time, I understand
that you have been there because you have been needed to
be there. What exactly is Olympus doing at this site?
Mr. Buczynski: They are not at the site, they are only
at the site every two weeks. Every week we talk on the phone.
That's the limit of their contract as far as that goes.
Mr. Greenbaum: I had a question, I had walked the site
on Sunday after the paving had been put in and I understand
that the final top coat of the pavement has not been put
in but there were a number of areas where I noticed significant
Mr. Buczynski: Leveling will be taken care of prior to
the top course.
Mr. Greenbaum: Is leveling not done on the base course?
I am not familiar with the process.
Mr. Buczynski: You do your base course and sometimes they
don't finish as perfect okay, then your tope course on that
you might do a little leveling course before you do the
top course to get rid of those puddling areas.
Mr. Greenbaum: Okay so that is something that your firm
is going to look at prior to?
Mr. Buczynski: Our intention is not to have a final course
of paving, yes, we are looking at that.
Mr. Dorsey: Gene, the Council President wants to know something.
Under the contract with Olympus, weren't they supposed to
come once a week for their "construction management?"
Wasn't that the original plan?
Mr. Buczynski: Yes it was.
Mr. Dorsey: Your are telling us today that they show up
once every two weeks.
Mr. Buczynski: That is correct.
President Scapicchio: Thank you.
Mr. Rattner: A couple things, on tonight's Bill List we
have a Bill for Conte for $616,000 and what it was on the
worksheet that the CFO has it says that the work is 85%
done. I also walked it on Sunday, I must have gone in the
afternoon because I didn't see many puddles, I saw a little
bit of mud and I was surprised on how rough it still looked
for being that done. For one thing I noticed that it looks
like Round Up doesn't work because a lot of the fields have
weeds that are probably about knee high to thigh high.
Mr. Buczynski: It's got to be done before they put the
Mr. Rattner: Okay.
Mr. Lynch: Any Round Up that was applied, Mr. Rattner,
does not have a residual affect. So since the last time
Round Up was applied anywhere on that site, after that day
when it was applied, any new weed growth, is not checked
by Round Up. It is a contact; the plant has to be in physical
Mr. Rattner: Why didn't we just wait and do it once rather
than put down chemical a couple of times.
Mr. Lynch: I think for the most part, it has been spot
treatments in areas where work has been focused to minimize
how much chemical goes down on the site.
Mr. Rattner: I just noticed a lot of weeds and I wasn't
sure. I used round up, I thought it worked great and weeds
have not come back. Anyway, the big question is 85% done
and we hear about the schedule. The original schedule was
going to be done by the end of September/ beginning of October.
You said we are only a few days behind, I guess you said
maybe about two weeks, I think the Admisistrator last week
said eight or nine days. When are we actually expected to
finish, including the building? When are we expected to
actually finish up. When are all of the fields going to
be sodded and everything else?
Mr. Buczynski: I think the last time we talked about seeding
and sodding the fields was September 20, 2002. We had the
delay with GPU and all of that, getting all of these things
together. Really 85% is probably based on dollars. That
is how 85% was arrived to. The biggest item out there right
now is the sod. Once the sod is completed, they Mr. Buczynski
(cont'd): say they get going next week and however many
weeks it takes pretty much that is going to be the last
issue before the fields get complete.
Mr. Rattner: What is the end date right now based on the
current schedule? That is my question.
Mr. Buczynski: I could not give you an exact date right
Mr. Rattner: What is the projected date? You must have
something because you gave us a change order for how much
extra work you are going to have to do.
Mr. Buczynski: I think we are a couple weeks behind. I
hope by the end of October or the first week in November.
Mr. Lynch: Whenever the first piece of sod hits the ground,
if the contractor can hold to the schedule with the weather
from the day the first field is sodded to the day the last
field was sodded is roughly four weeks.
Mr. Rattner: So right now we are talking about the middle
Mr. Buczynski: First or second week of November.
Mr. Lynch: That is what we are looking for. November 15,
2002 is what we are aiming for at this point. Being that
sod should not be laid down now, GPU will be done on Monday,
October 15, 2002 would start the sodding, November 15, 2002
Mr. Rattner: The question was, what is the current schedule?
Mr. Buczynski: As long as you don't have problems with
irrigation and all that, everything goes.
Mr. Dorsey: You are becoming very tenuous Gene.
Mr. Greenbaum: I wouldn't leave until after this discussion,
I would wait until after the resolutions.
Mr. Rattner: The other thing on the Bill List tonight,
I noticed that Olympus bill for $12,000 is back. Didn't
we pull that off at the last meeting for specific purposes?
President Scapicchio: Sherry, do you know why that got
back on? You requested it right? You don't just put that
Mrs. Jenkins: Well, yes. Cindy had requested that we put
it on as a supplemental which is what we did at the last
Mr. Rattner: But if you look on page six, it is back on
President Scapicchio: Steve we will get to that when we
get to the Bill List?
Mr. Rattner: Okay, well I figured while we were talking
Turkey Brook, I wanted to get all the questions out.
President Scapicchio: Mayor, anything else on Turkey Brook
that you want to bring to out attention? Seeing none.
Mr. Dorsey: The one settlement with Voller's was finalized,
Sherry issued another check to me for a $160,000 without
it being on the Bill List but it was okay because it was
included in the resolution we have there. The Appellate
Brief that we are filing in connection with the Dattolo
Properties which I really like will be filed this Friday.
There is a copy here I have left it with Nicole. The brief
that I hope is the final brief if we ever have to file in
the Mt. Olive Complex Case will also be filed at the end
of this week. This is referred to now as the supplemental
brief. We have waited 15 months from the last event in this
career case which started in December of 1995. But I do
think after the filing of these briefs, both sides are to
file their supplemental briefs by October 17, 2002. I do
believe that we will have a relatively quick reaction from
the Appellate Division because they have been directed by
their bosses in the Supreme Court to advise whether any
modification in their June 1, 2001 opinion is necessary
based on a series of decisions. The MOTPEA contract was
drawn by the Township's new low priced labor council, John
Horan in my office. To his great disappointment I had him
mail it directly to Mr. Greenbaum and to the Town Mr. Dorsey
(cont'd): Hall because I thought it would get some immediate
reaction. Greenbaum who negotiated says he is not that familiar
with the form of the contract to critique it, but it is
here if anybody wants to look at it.
Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to comment on that for a second.
Although I negotiated the contract, the contract terms that
I negotiated were subject of the MOA, it was not the specific
40 page document.
Mr. Dorsey: I am only repeating what you said to me.
Mr. Greenbaum: You leave the wrong impression.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS:
July 9, 2002 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Guenther (8:30pm),
Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller, President Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Perkins, Mr. Spino
August 6, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs.
Miller, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
September 17, 2002 CS Present: Mr. Guenther, President
Scapicchio, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins (excused),
Mr. Spino, Mrs. Miller
Mr. Rattner moved for the approval of the meeting minutes,
Mrs. Miller seconded that motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr.
Perkins, abstained on July 9, and September 17, 2002. Mr.
Spino abstained on all.
Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities
1. Resolution received September 23, 2002, from the Township
of Hardyston urging the State of New Jersey to Reimburse
Municipalities for Costs Associated with Black Bear Population
2. Ordinance received September 23, 2002, from the Township
of Roxbury Re: Land Use.
3. Planning Board Resolution received September 25, 2002,
from Township of Roxbury regarding Amendments to the Master
Plan Land Use Plan Element and Housing Plan Element and
Fair Share Plan.
4. Resolution received September 26, 2002, from the Borough
of Madison regarding the Highlands Stewardship Act.
5. Resolution received September 26, 2002, from the Borough
of Madison regarding the Amendment to the Open Space and
Farmland Preservation Trust Fund to Include Historic Preservation.
6. Resolution received September 26, 2002, from the Borough
of Florham Park regarding the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.
7. Resolution received October 2, 2002, from the Borough
of Mount Arlington regarding the "Pledge of Allegiance."
8. Resolution received October 2, 2002, from the Borough
of Mount Arlington regarding Discounting Sewer and Water
fees for Affordable Housing.
9. Resolution received October 2, 2002, from the Borough
of Mount Arlington regarding increasing fees on Registration
of All Terrain Vehicles.
10. Letter received October 4, 2002, from Washington Township
Regarding Notice of Public Hearing on Revised Historic Preservation
Element of the Washington Township Master Plan.
11. Application Checklist received September 23, 2002,
(corrected letter received September 30, 2002) from the
Town of Hackettstown regarding Freshwater Wetlands Application
re: property at Seber Road, Block 119, Lots 82.01 &
12. Application for Permit received September 27, 2002,
from Frank Maione regarding property at Block 7100, Lot
28 (River Road) for Freshwater Wetlands.
13. Letter received September 30, 2002, from Simoff Engineering
Associates regarding NJDEP Application for Letter of Interpretation
Block 4100, Lot 80 & 84 (73 Route 46, & 95 Route
46) Applicant: Mt. Olive Center Associates.
14. Letter received September 30, 2002, from Environmental
Technology Inc. regarding Request for a Letter of Interpretation,
Footprint of Disturbance / Block 7100, Lot 28 (River Road).
15. Application Checklist received September 30, 2002,
from Mt. Olive Center Associates regarding property at 73
& 95 Route 46, Block 4100 lots 80 & 84 regarding
Letter of Interpretation.
16. List of Allocations received October 4, 2002, from
the Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding participating
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards
17. E-mail received September 23, 2002, from the Morris
County Chamber of Commerce regarding "Doing Business
with the U.S. Government."
18. Letter received September 26, 2002, from Killian Group
regarding New Web Site, Public Relations, Client Services,
and New Name Change to Hatch Mott MacDonald.
19. Local Finance Notice received September 26, 2002, from
the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs, Division
of Local Government Services regarding Amendments to the
Open Public Meetings Act.
20. Letter received September 25, 2002, from Jersey Central
Power and Light regarding Aerial Inspection of Transmission
President Rattner stated there we have 20 pieces of Correspondence
on the agenda and asked if Council had any questions on
same. Seeing none.
ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING
Ord. #38-2002 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Authorizing the Purchase of a Conservation Easement/Development
Rights Across Lot 16, Block 7100 and Lot 54, Block 5300
on the Tax Assessment Maps of the Township of Mount Olive
Which Property is Commonly Referred to as the Devlin Property
and Appropriating the Sum of $142,500.00
President Scapicchio opened the Public Hearing on Ordinance
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I would like to address this
in conjunction with resolution number four which is the
environmental testing I believe above this property. Is
there a reason why we are going to pass the Ordinance to
purchase this property prior to our having don tests on
this property and know whether we want to purchase these
Mr. Dorsey: We will not close on the property until the
tests are completed, we are primarily buying development
rights on this entire piece of I think about 72 acres. In
addition to buying the development rights we wouldn't really
care whether there was any small amount of contamination.
But we are also buying what they are known as public access
easements for an extension of Patriots Path and it is along
that path that the tests are going to be taken.
Mr. Bonte: What happens if we find out that there is pollution
on this site?
Mr. Dorsey: Not on this site, in the trails?
Mr. Bonte: Wherever we do testing. What would happen?
Mr. Dorsey: We will do what we did in terms of Charter's
Farm. We would probably ask for some allowance in connection
with the purchase price. An allowance or credit sufficient
to do whatever cleanup is appropriate.
Mr. Bonte: Who would pay for that clean up?
Mr. Dorsey: An allowance means that the seller would grant
us some concession to absorb those costs.
Mr. Bonte: Because this is a gray area, the seller stills
owns the property, all he is selling is the rights to development.
Does the Township incur any liability whatsoever if we know
that there is pollution on this site and it is in use for
Mr. Dorsey: Not until we close and before we close we would
make arrangements for the remediation to be done presumable
at the cost of the seller.
Mr. Bonte: Supposing we found that there was extensive
pollution on the site?
Mr. Dorsey: We might not go through with the sale.
Mr. Bonte: Could the seller then be held in some type of
jeopardy that he would be forced to clean up this site.
Mr. Dorsey: Yes he could. If contamination is found there
is certain statutes under which he could then essentially
be reported to NJDEP and they could issue the necessary
Mr. Bonte: The preverbal can of worms. I would really suggest
that we delay the passage of this ordinance until
Such time as we have completed the necessary testing to
determine whether we want to get involved in this.
President Scapicchio: Thanks Rich. Anyone else? Seeing
none. I will close the public hearing.
Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance
38-2002; Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Council discussion?
Mr. Rattner: I look at what we are doing tonight no different
than if you were going to buy a house. What usually happens
is that you actually make an offer, put down good faith
money and then you due diligence you do your inspections
and everything else. Then if it is not right, then you decide
well there is something wrong, I am not going to close on
the house and your contract is written that way. Correct
me if I am wrong, I feel that's what we are doing really
at this point. We are making an offer then we are going
to go back and do all our work. If there is a problem we
are not going to close.
President Scapicchio: Thanks Steve. Council discussion?
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
President Scapicchio declared Ordinance #38-2002 as passed
on second reading and hereby directed the Clerk to forward
a copy of same to the Mayor and Publish the notice of Adoption
as required by law.
Ord. #39-2002 An Ordinance to Vacate a Portion of Clinton
Avenue. (Dan & Fran Nelson Subdivision)
President Scapicchio opened the Public Hearing on Ordinance
President Scapicchio closed the Public Hearing on ordinance
Mr. Greenbaum moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance
#39-2002; Mr. Perkins seconded that motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
President Scapicchio declared Ordinance #39-2002 as passed
on second reading and hereby directed the Clerk to forward
a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of Adoption
as required by law.
ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd Reading October 22, 2002)
Ord. #40-2002 Bond Ordinance Amending Bond Ordinance Numbered
26-2002 of the Township of Mount Olive, In the County of
Morris, New Jersey Finally Adopted June 18, 2002 Providing
for various Improvements to, and Acquisition of Equipment
and Vehicles for Turkey Brook Park and in Order to Amend
Such Bond Ordinance in its Entirety.
Mr. Perkins moved that Ordinance #40-2002 be introduced
by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting
be held on October 22, 2002 at 7:30 PM at the Municipal
Building 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive New Jersey
for a Public Hearing consideration of second reading and
passage of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed
to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in Requirements
of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Council Discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mrs.
Miller, voted no.
Ord. #41-2002 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Establishing Linwood Road as One Way during Certain Designated
Mrs. Miller moved that Ordinance #41-2002 be introduced
by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting
be held on October 22, 2002 at 7:30 PM at the Municipal
Building 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive New Jersey
for a Public Hearing consideration of second reading and
passage of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed
to publish, post and make available said Ordinance with
the Requirements of the law. Mr. Guenther seconded that
President Scapicchio: Council discussion.
Mr. Rattner: Are we going to be contacting these people
again just telling them it is on for a public hearing to
make sure they are aware of this?
President Scapicchio: That is not a bad idea. Nicole, will
you make note of that for Lisa.
Ms. Whittle: Yes.
CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA:
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to
be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council
and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will
be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions
except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements
that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests,
any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed
from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.
President Scapicchio: I have been informed that we are
going to remove resolution number five because the Business
Administrator had not had an opportunity to review that
final proposal in contract form. Is that correct Rob?
Mr. Greenbaum: That is correct as far as I know.
Mr. Rattner: Could we move Resolution six to non-consent,
I just have a question.
President Scapicchio: Not a problem Steve.
MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing the Acceptance of a
Conservation Easement on a Portion of Lot 3.02 in Block
4500. (Morrison/Senatore Subdivision)
2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing the Request for Additional Budget
for Construction Management at Turkey Brook Park. (Extension
of Schoor DePalma Contract)
3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing the Acquisition of a Brush Truck/Mini
Attack Pumper from Absolute Fire Protection.
4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing a Limited Number of Test Borings
or Environmental Tests Along the Easement for Patriots Path
at the Devlin Property.
Mr. Greenbaum moved the Consent Resolution Agenda 1 through
4; Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
Dave Jones, Budd Lake: I am sorry this is going back to
the other resolution, the Ordinance of Linwood Ave. I am
just curious, were they going to put up a blinking light
or something like that.
President Scapicchio: They will put up the appropriate
signage. Dave I would suggest you come to that Public Hearing.
Mayor, could we have someone here from the Police Department
in case there is any additional public questions at that
Mayor Licitra: We will get Officer Galop here.
President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the Public? Seeing
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
Mr. Ratter: I just have one question on number four. It
says that the issue with the warrantee, for the pumper was
Mr. Rattner: They issued a three year warranty. It just
says it was resolved. It doesn't say
Mr. Dorsey: We did get it.
Fred Ulhman, Chief of Flanders Fire Department: At the
last meeting I guess a week or so ago, the item came up
of the two vs. three of the Warrantee on the pump for the
brushtruck. We went back to the dealer and he has agreed
in writing to absorb the third year of that warrantee and
he apologizes for any confusion on that.
Mr. Rattner: That is fine, it may have been that the Council
President may have been notified but we didn't get anything.
President Scapicchio: Sorry, Steve, I got an email from
Mr. Rattner: That's okay. I kind of figured you did.
President Scapicchio: Just as a note, I think that Mr.
Rattner did a good job in picking up the fact that somebody
should have looked at that before it came to us and, in
fact, there was a fault in the warrantee and we got the
warrantee as was specified in the original specifications.
Good job there Rattner.
PUBLIC PORTION ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTIONS NON CONSENT
6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Waiving Time Restrictions in
Connection with Construction Activities of Clemens Construction/Commerce
Mr. Guenther moved Non Consent Resolution No. 6; Mr. Perkins
seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Public Comment on this resolution?
Mr. Rattner: On this with the bank that was asking us,
I noticed on there, I wasn't sure that we were changing
the hours, I thought the big thing we were doing is that
if they work in side we said that was fine, and another
item which we felt was reasonable, was that Columbus Day
is considered a holiday in Government, not anyplace else
and we were going to say that they could work on a celebrated
holiday for Columbus day. So all we really did, is we did
say again that as long as there was no noise and there was
no deliveries, if they worked inside we would allow them
to do that outside of hours and second, that they could
work on Columbus Day.
President Scapicchio: I think you're right.
Mr. Dorsey: The construction they are entertaining is interior
work. What is he saying that we don't need this resolution?
Mr. Rattner: The one that I didn't know if we were changing.
I thought it was 7:00 to 5:00 or something like that, but
the big thing was we said that they could work and we could
just change it, they could work on Columbus Day.
Mr. Dorsey: Well, we could say Saturday's, Columbus Day
and work days, okay?
Mr. Rattner: Yes. I will go along with that.
Mr. Dorsey: On your resolution Nicole, after Saturday add
Mr. Spino: And this is for only inside work.
Mr. Rattner: They could work on Columbus Day as a regular
Mr. Dorsey: Yes.
Mr. Spino: Why are we adding to the resolution?
Mr. Rattner: Right now our Ordinance says it cannot work
on Columbus Day.
Mr. Spino: That is what I am saying, this is only for interior.
Mr. Rattner: But then we have to say on it that they can
work outside on the 12th?
Mr. Spino: That is what I am saying.
Mr. Dorsey: Okay, I will add something and give it to Nicole.
ROLL CALL: Passed. Mr. Rattner, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Guenther,
Mr. Scapicchio - Yes.
Mr. Greenbaum Mrs. Miller, Mr. Spino - No.
1. Bill List.
Mr. Rattner moved for the approval of the Bill List with
the exception of the $12,000 check on page 6, number 000681
to Olympus International. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Mayor do you know how this got back
on the list. Did we have some questions and questions were
Mayor Licitra: I would rather pull it off. I am talking
to Sherry and Sherry says one of the reasons it's on there
at least in her understanding was that fact that Cindy had
thought that there was no problem with it.
Mr. Spino: Is this indeed the same bill?
President Scapicchio: It's the same amount of money
Mrs. Jenkins: This is the same bill. I was told that it
was pulled off the last bill list, I assume that Cindy had
addressed whatever questions you had and we put it back
on the bill list.
President Scapicchio: We took it off for several reasons,
one of which I believe they have already received monies
in an accelerated fashion above and beyond what the contract
calls for. That was only one of the reasons. We wouldn't
expect to see this back on without any discussion at a workshop.
Mrs. Jenkins: Not a problem.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
2. Approval of Raffle Application #1046 for the Women's
Association Morristown Memorial Hospital and Raffle Application
#1047 for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Parish.
Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the of Raffle Application
#1046 for the Women's Association Morristown Memorial Hospital
and Raffle Application #1047 for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton
Parish; Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Library Board Liaison Report
Mrs. Miller: The good news is they went before the Planning
Board. I was not able to be there but I did get a fax and
I understand that all of the questions that were raised
by the Township Engineer were reviewed and resolved and
there are just some final revisions to the clarifications
to the drawings by Goodlin and Clearwater. The Planning
Board approved their application and the other news is that
they have tickets available. I have some here for anybody
that would like to go to the awards dinner on November1,
2002. I would assume that tickets were sent to the Council.
If not, I have tickets.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Charlene.
Mr. Guenther: There was a meeting this last week, nothing
too unusual. A couple things that came up. A report given
about the fund raising activities for that the Soccer Club
has organized, they have actually hired a professional outside
firm, on a monthly retainer to do various fund raising activities
first of which is the dinner next week which I think has
been widely publicized as well as other things for the benefit
of Turkey Brook Park. That's the whole brunt of their fundraising
activities. An item that came up which Harvey Kessler the
Chairman of the Committee, there's a significant complaint
about the poor condition of the softball fields that the
girls play on vs. what is done for baseball and that is
under investigation. I think Jim was also looking at it
to see how that could be improved. So that is something
we hope to address, I know that has been a recurrent complaint
as we've gone along.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Bernie.
Board of Health Report
Mr. Perkins: There is nothing else to report Dave; there
is nothing on the agenda for this upcoming meeting, so it
has been canceled for this month.
President Scapicchio: How about the status of the committee
representing the Lake and environmental issues. Have you
guys done anything else with that?
Status of Committee RE: Lake/Environment Issues
Mr. Perkins: Yes we have. We had the first summary meeting
on October 1, 2002. We had quite a few attendees that were
there. Cynthia Spencer, the Chief of Police, Frank Wilpert,
Fred Detoro, Herb Gerdes, David Tomb, David Thiel, Chris
Ide, Hank Titone, Mark was there and myself. We discussed
quite a few items, some of the outfalls, they are going
to help along with the maps for some of the small streams
and outfalls that go into the Lake, so those can be plotted
appropriately by our administrative staff. Mark has been
working together with some of the Sewer map updates as well
as GIS format that he has been working on for the Phase
II, permitting for stormwater outfall. All and all the meeting
went very well, it lasted just about an hour. Everybody
had a lot of input which was great. The one thing I had
recommended to the Lake Association, we had talked about
the different times when you may or may not want to be notified.
I did not want to put any burden on the Township from the
standpoint. If you
Mr. Perkins (cont'd): want to be notified, then you are
notified regardless of whether the spill has been contained.
An example would be an oil spill from an accident that goes
into a sewer line and it outfalls into the Lake. Well, if
that has been remediated by our emergency response people,
Fred Detoro's folks and we haven't had to call anybody in,
do you notify the Lake people or not because there are already
booms in there? They said well maybe we wouldn't want to
be notified. I didn't want to put the burden on them; I
said let's notify you anyway, put it in your database that
there was a problem, the Township has taken care of it,
and that way it becomes part of the record. Then the Lake
Association has that on their file as well as us having
it up here.
Mr. Rattner: I have a question for Ray. I got a regular
email from the Lake Committee because I am a member talking
about the next meeting and they put a default clean up.
But then they requested that they are looking for a large
number of volunteers for this week saying that they have
been giving the responsibility to find the street drain
entries and stream entries into the lake. They are looking
for volunteers to map that out. I was wondering if we have
been maintaining or hopefully maintaining a lot of out storm
drains and stuff like that. Is that what was really said.
Mr. Perkins: We didn't ask them to find them they volunteered
but I will let Mark.
Mr. DiGennaro: I am sorry, I did not see the email that
you are referring to, however, what was suggested was there
was concerns in what they felt was strategic areas of danger
to the lake where they felt that contaminants could easily
enter and they volunteer basically to help us identify those
areas and point out because there are some very small tributaries
to the lake that may not be easily tracked down. The people
may know they fall through yards or what not, so that offered
to help us out. Our mapping is in different areas, we don't
necessarily have comprehensive maps that I am aware of at
this point. We are trying to put something together where
we could try to get it at least in some format of a standard
paper map where we have a master plan for all the storm
sewers. Ideally we would like to focus on getting in a GIS
format and take advantage of the County's efforts however
that is an expensive proposition.
Mr. Perkins: Dave there is one other thing that the Council
probably needs to be aware of. One of the recommendations
if something was happening and we had to close any portion
of the Lake down, whether that be the entire lake or just
a portion was, how would you notify all of the residents.
One of the suggestions was the possibility of having one
of the three marinas that was there, have flags. Example;
red flag, no swimming. We haven't gotten any further along,
but if we do that, that's is more than likely something
that is going to have be passed in the form of an ordinance
that is going to require the marinas to have those flags
up there. They do business on the Lake, I don't know if
that is something that the Township would contribute to
the overall cost of, the pole would be there on their property
and as part of the notification, if you had to evacuate
and you did not want people at the beach, then maybe the
Department of Public Works or Emergency Response Team would
be able to go along. We are going to have to address that
somewhere down the road if that option is chosen.
Mr. Rattner: With that, I grew up in Rockaway and White
Meadow Lake, I moved out of there almost 30 years ago. The
way they did it is on either the beaches or the clubhouse,
which is on the Lake, is they use their flagpole, they used
it to notify whether it was safe for ice skating or not,
and whether or not it was safe for swimming. It would be
good if we could get cooperation and we could probably pass
an ordinance for the Marinas. But the Municipal Building,
you can actually see that flagpole from across the Lake.
Mr. Perkins: That was brought up and some of the association
people did not feel that you could actually see the Flag
at the Municipal Building from all points of the Lake.
Mr. Rattner I think that should be the main one, that we
can get that up first and if somebody looked, they could
probably tell. It is a good indication.
Mr. Perkins: I think Mark had suggested that we were going
to put that on the roof, but I am not sure he wants to go
up there right now.
Mr. DiGennaro: We did agree with a phone chain and a contact
list of three or four members of the Lake Committee and
they would at least be able to start that process of notification
amongst their committee people as well, so that is the start.
But I think the lines of communication of opened up and
we are looking to work to together and find a suitable answer
President Scapicchio: Thank you Mark. Thanks Ray
Planning Board Report
Mr. Greenbaum: Very busy as usual, we met on October 3,
2002 the first matter that was discussed was the reexamination
report which was adopted by resolution of the Planning Board,
which leaves the Master Plan left for Mr. Greenbaum (cont'd):
discussion before the Planning Board. We discussed I believe
four development matters; the first being Callaremi, Lincoln
Mercury; they were looking to remodel or expand their building.
It was interesting because their site plan necessarily required
them to utilize an easement with the next door car dealership,
I guess there had been some infighting in the Callaremi
family at some point in time and there had been a split.
It just became an interesting issue as to whether or not
their site plan technically did not need to use that easement,
but in fact they were parking cars on that grass easement
and ultimately the Planning Board after Legal Advice came
to the conclusion that we could decide the issue based solely
on the site plan which was before the Planning Board which
didn't include the easement and ultimately Callaremi was
granted their approval, however it now leaves the situation
where Callaremi is going to be parking vehicles on an unimproved
lot which is a violation of zoning ordinance, but ultimately
they got their approval. The next issue that we addressed
was the Mount Olive Public Library. It was a very quick
meeting; on that issue the main topic of discussion was
related to the access to the facility, whether or not it
was wise to access it through the main Municipal Building
driveway or whether or not they should have their own driveway
accessing the building. As you may recall that it is actually
a flag lot, it appeared to be an area where there could
be a driveway, but it was determined that particular flag
piece was to close to our entrance and it would not have
made good engineering sense. In any event as Charlene said,
it was granted approval. Dan and Fran Nelson were back with
regard to their three lot sub-division behind their house,
it relates to the vacation of Clinton Ave. and ultimately
they were able to work out the issues with the adjoining
home owner with regard to fixing their property once that
portion of the cul-de-sac is removed and ultimately that
approval was given. The last issue which was addressed was
Longhorn Steakhouse which is going to be going up in the
Trade Center South across from Wendy's, it joins the main
Road and they willingly agreed to put up several lights
along the roadway to help out effort to resolve the lighting
issue on ITC South.
Mayor Licitra: I understand Mr. Greenbaum that there is
two voices. We play good cop, good cop. We get additional
benches for waiting outside; for people to wait. Also we'll
get as many street lights as we could, so at least people
will be able to see where they are going over there.
Mr. Greenbaum: We are meeting Thursday night 6:30; Hashemi,
it should be an interesting meeting. Then on the 17th there
are several matters on Woodfield. Final site plan, final
major sub division approval Gen III builders. Rezamir estates
which is going to generate a lot of participation from the
Mr. Dorsey: Rob, did Planning Board get the report from
Dick Cushing that the Federal Court dismissed the discrimination
Mr. Greenbaum: No.
Mr. Dorsey: I have to go back and check that, I think all
the counts were dismissed.
Mayor Licitra: That means that we could also counter sue
if we wanted. I could go to the meeting, I checked with
Mr. Dorsey: When is the next meeting?
Mr. Greenbaum: Thursday, 6:30. We were under Court Order
to resolve this by September the 15th there were some scheduling
problems. Mr. Hashemi graciously granted us an extension
to this Thursday and I assume that this is going to be the
last meeting on this particular application. That is all
that I have.
President Scapicchio: Thanks Rob.
Open Space Committee Report
Mrs. Miller: I don't think I really have to give a report.
We have a wonderful memorandum from Kathy Murphy dated October
8, 2002 and it tells you the status of all the Morris County
President Scapicchio: Thanks Charlene
Legislative Committee Report
Mr. Guenther: Nothing new to report.
Pride Committee Report
Mr. Perkins: If you haven't already seen the new bill board,
take a look. "Fall into Mount Olive is the theme, I
think the Pride Committee is doing a hec of a job.
Mayor Licitra: I am getting a lot of compliments because
of what they are doing and they are doing a great job.
Mr. Perkins: For a small group of people that are actually
out there, they are doing a good job.
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: The resolution that we passed
this evening increasing the contract with Schoor Deplama,
I have missed the last few meeting so I wanted to clear
up a few things. Were there funds expended by Schoor DePalma
that were not in the previous contract that he had for Turkey
President Scapicchio: Prior to this degree of being memorialized
Rich, I do not believe there was. I think that's why it
was brought to the table because the funds either had exhausted
or were close to being exhausted.
Mrs. Jenkins: We can't spend more than what you have authorized
Mr. Dorsey: The monies are in the project they simply had
not been allocated to Schoor Depalma and there was a presentation
last week about that.
Mr. Bonte: And I realized I missed that, but did Schoor
Deplama incur expenses for which there were insufficient
approved funds. It was reported in the paper.
Mr. Dorsey: I think the answer to that is Schoor Depalma
did not submit vouchers, and has not submitted vouchers
until their budget was appropriately increased to permit
them to submit additional vouchers.
Mr. Bonte: But they did actually incur on their part more
expenses for the period of time that they had worked than
was anticipated. Is that correct?
Mr. Dorsey: It's debatable.
Mr. Bonte: I got the impression from what I read in the
newspaper is that once again a private contractor did work
over and above what was originally contracted for.
Mr. Dorsey: Let me ask you it this way. Schoor Depalma
is very much aware of those restrictions and instances.
They submitted their request for an increase in their Budget
before they found themselves to the point of submitting
vouchers for which there had not been authorization from
money. So they haven't done the usual thing that you are
mentioning and that is submit vouchers and then say gee
there is no money you have to up the money up.
Mr. Bonte: Right. For that I commend them I don't have
any problem with Schoor Depalma. Gene is very competent
and so is his staff. But my concern is that every time we
enter into some type of contractual arrangement with somebody
we always find ourselves in the situation where more things
had to be done than were anticipated and in order to keep
the project moving we have already done a bunch of these
things. Well we've haven't billed you yet because we know
we can't but we'd appreciate an amendment to our contract.
Mr. Buczynski: What's really tuff in construction projects
is I could start the job and say okay, it is going to be
six months, I am going to have a guy out there for eight
hours a day, and five days a week full time it is going
to cost you $160,000. I might spend six hours out there,
I got a contract for eight. What we try to do with the discussions
of the Town is to get what we thought was; if everything
was fine and we didn't have a lot of the problems we had
on the job that we could give you half time inspection,
four hours a week But if I could at the beginning said,
I want time materials and eight hours a day, it is very
difficult to limit, because like you say asking for more
money. On a day to day basis, It's like me saying okay I
will start at 8:00 and at 12:00 I am leaving because I said
four hours a day. I can't leave that site vacant the rest
of the day. So it is very difficult on construction services
on a contract that we are not constructing to get a set
number on what's the right price.
Mr. Bonte: I fully understand that Gene. My concern here
and again, Schoor Depalma has not done to us what a lot
of people have done to us. But we really need to start putting
contractors on notice; that we can't have them working at
rates; for example your contract I believe originally was
four hours a day. He finds himself in a position where he's
putting six to eight hours in a day and this goes on for
weeks on end. The next thing you know we are in a position
of where we are either out of money or how he comes in for
additional funds because "I had to keep the project
going". We have gone through this before this year.
There has been a bunch of cases this year that have been
on the verge of being fraudulent or illegal. For example
what happened with the Oddessy debacle on the
Mr. Bonte: generator on the truck? Contractors and businesses
that deal with this Town need to know that we're going o
deny payment, we are not going to approve payment for something
that was not authorized. The contracts Mr. Bonte (cont'd):
specifically says, you are going to provide services at
x number of days, x number of hours per day. At least certainly
on a weekly basis if it is four hours a day we should not
be exceeding 20 hours a week. If it has to, that information
needs to come back to the Township immediately that I need
to spend additional time or because I spent 28 hours this
week I am only going to be able to spend 12 next week to
keep this contract in line. We can't find ourselves in a
position all the time of always playing catch up. In the
11 years I have been involved in coming here, it happens
year after year after year. Millions of dollars in the Sewer
Project. The same thing happened. Work was expended, people
are told don't worry, we will get the funds. It is illegal
to commit those funds if they have not been approved by
the Council. The only way we are going to show that is to
start denying people, even if they have actually expended
the work effort or the funds if it was not approved. So,
I think we need to start taking a much tougher stand from
this type of stuff. Thank you.
Mr. Spino: I disagree wholeheartedly with this case. I
think that Schoor Depalma was there, if they had walked
off after four hours, the drought would probably cost us
twice as much as were doing because we would be back logged
with work because the work that did continue would be done
improperly because they would not be there. I think they
took charge and I would commend them maybe, on the fact
that they took a chance on staying there and doing the work
and knowing the possibility that the Towns would do what
you say. I think it is unfair at this point to what I consider
the Township Engineer. They are the Township Engineer.
Mr. Bonte: They are the Township Engineering firm that
we contract with.
Mr. Spino: They are looking out for our benefit. Had they
not been there, like you said I think either the work would
have gone undone or would have been done improperly. I don't
understand, we are talking about the company that is there
for our benefit.
Mr. Bonte: I understand that but, he was asked to give
us a price to provide those services. If you are an expert
at providing said services, you should have a very good
handle what it costs.
President Scapicchio: Rich, there are things that you are
missing here that play into the scheme of things that you
are discounting. One of which, Olympus's contract required
them to come out here twice a week. They have failed in
that regard. There are other issues that we have with Olympus
that in my opinion required Schoor Depalma to take over
some additional responsibilities. I think we all knew, although
I don't think they ever exhausted the total amount of money
we allocated to them in the very beginning before this project
may have even went out to bid, they estimated what they
thought would be the supervision needed for this project.
I don't think we ever exhausted the total amount of that
dollar amount even though we all know that they were providing
more than four hours as this project went along then they
had originally told us what was needed.
Mr. Guenther: First of all I think that Earl touched on
it. There is a difference between supervision and the big
contract. You make a good point Rich. You don't want to
go over if it is a big contract, but this was not a big
contract, this is a supervision job that we gave and Dave
is absolutely right, that we gave Schoor Depalma because
of the efficiencies or quite frankly we did not trust Olympus
anymore. We wanted somebody that was close to us that could
supervise our activities. On the other side of the coin,
I do find fault with the Administration in not advising
us early on that this was happening. In other words, early
on as Schoor Depalma got into it and realized that four
hours a week were not going to be sufficient, we should
have been informed.
Mr. Bonte: That's the point really Bernie that I am trying
to get at. How long did this go on and why? Once you start
realizing what is happening, it should be brought back to
the people that authorize the funds immediately. You should
not start incurring. I realize that it may have been for
the benefit of the Township, but there are set prescribed
ways of doing things in Government. One of them is you don't
knowingly allow somebody to start exceeding what you have
authorized without saying hey; wait a minute. We are a quarter
a way through the contract and we have already obligated
half the funds. Good contract and we have already obligated
half the funds. Good contract management says you look at
what is happening at that point and make an assessment of
what needs to be changed.
Mr. Dorsey: But you are really being unfair because that
is essentially what Buczynski did five weeks ago when he
sent in his memorandum.
Mr. Bonte: What was done five weeks ago?
Mr. Dorsey: It takes a while to get on the agenda. The
memorandum was issued to the Administration and it
Mr. Bonte: Well I guess at some point Government needs
to say we'll go back to the contractor and say, if you keep
spending at this rate, money will stop at this point and
there are no guarantees what so ever that your services
will be renewed, whether we can continue on this contract.
But you have an obligation to do what you said you were
going to do. If that means he has to cut back to four hours
a day, alright so be it and then Government has to deal
Mr. Bonte (cont'd): with that. I just don't think that we
can continue to expend funds and allow contractors to spend
funds at their own choosing, or at wink that they get from
some public official. That is basically what happened with
Oddessy. The Business Administrator went off and negotiated
on his own and basically overturned the whole bidding process
and awarded thousands of dollars and told you after the
fact that he had made this
decision. It needs to stop.
Mr. Rattner: This particular contract, if anything yes,
the Council got notified late, the original contract was
signed with Schoor Depalma, it was an estimate. How many
hours do you think you need? We put a not to exceed on every
one of our contracts. It does not mean that we are not going
to but it means they can't exceed it and they didn't. What
happened with this contract with the four hours a day is
what they estimated they would need to oversee the inspection
of all the work being done. When there were different issues
that came up, and some of the hours came up. The Administration
told them to fix it, redesign it. The couple of them that
come to mind is the sewer line. By redesigning it and not
going as deep, that was a twenty thousand dollar savings.
We knew what was going on. Also this thing with the water
and the wells. I believe it was Schoor Depalma that came
up and said based on the specs, it is $100,000 to bring
water up from this other development, however if we dig
our own well, of course we are hoping that we only needed
one, it is going to cost us maybe $10,000 so instead of
about $20,000. I think what happened is what Mr. Guenther
and I brought up last week. We just didn't know until they
ran out of money and said hey, if he wants to keep working
when they should have known. You are right, contract management
if it said that they should be spending on x amount of dollars
a week and they are under the direction for the Administration
so it wasn't that they were just doing whatever work they
wanted, it should have shown up long before when you have
it projected out; $80,000 over six months should be $12,000
or $13,000 per month or what ever it domes out and if it
was going at $17,000 we would have known right away and
we should have been told that it is going to go longer,
they project is going another month or two. From my understanding,
they didn't overspend the contract. They work that they
did under the direction of the Town; it was what they call
Value engineering and we saw the savings, the only thing
that did happen is we got notified late. I had the same
questions. When I first saw it I called Mr. Buczynski, what
happened? Didn't you know? We started looking at it; they
started putting together the costs when they thought they
would run out of money. It wasn't that they overspent it
because as far as I know they didn't. They didn't do work,
they just didn't spend 6 hours because they wanted too.
We gave them additional work to do. The place that fell
down I guess is an internal thing where we just weren't
notified earlier saying that there was going to be additional
costs because it is going to go longer and we have given
them extra work to do to fix the problems as designed. But
this is one that we knew. They just didn't pick it. We told
them to do some of this extra work as a Town.
Mr. Bonte: Someday we are going to all sit here and see
a project brought in on cost. I don't know when that is
going to happen, but someday we are going to see a project
brought in on cost.
Mr. Buczynski: I have one comment, any other construction
observation projects, I will be glad to give you estimates
for eight hours a day for the total amount of the project
and will be the number we start from, not to exceed. That
is the whole thing, it is not like it's not brought under
cost, I could have told you from day one not to beat a dead
horse, but I could have originally sent you an estimate
to the Mayor to say eight hours a day, six months would
have been x dollars. That's what would have been the number.
We tried to a little check and balance, Paul asked me too,
what we would do. I said well if everything works out right,
it could be about four hours a day. That is what we put
in and there were caveats in that proposal where we said
if everything goes right and there's a budgetary number,
and as far as when we gave the price, we gave the price
probably about three weeks ago at the most. We did discuss
it earlier with Cindy and I was delayed with getting the
final numbers because I wanted to make sure when we are
going to be working until; the end of September, end of
October, or how far. I said I'll give you a number, well
I wanted to say come back a month later and say well it
might not be $35 it may be $55. So we want to be sure what
the costs were and where we're going to be. I delayed that
portion from when I first mentioned it to Cindy on the phone
that we're going to exceed the costs based on where we are
going right now. But I did not get a number to Administration
for a couple of weeks because I wanted to make sure I gave
the right number and to drop the letter. I didn't want to
just say it was going to be x dollars without the back up.
Mr. Perkins: Not to beat a dead horse, but Rich in standard
AIA format documents as well as CSI documents, we are all
familiar hopefully with change orders and there are also
things called, field change directives. So if you have a
field change directive, it is because somebody directed
you to make a change. You really cannot agree upon the costs
yet, because you really don't know what cost is involved.
So that Rich I think would have solved the problem had somebody
had a field change directive every time as Steve has said
when we told somebody , well yes, go out and negotiate when
we talked about the water and the sewer and instantly somebody
should have typed out a field change directive and said
we are going to have a change. We don't know whether it
is going to be a credit or a debit, but there is going to
be a change. Now you have the document to follow up with.
Without the document you are
right, people come expo facto, and make a presentation.
I'm not happy about that. As a matter of fact I am the one
who kind of brought it up last week, on that resolution
that we had approved tonight. So there are venues within
Mr. Perkins (cont'd): AIA and CSI that provide for those
in standard construction documents. If they are not adhered
to, then it is an oversight problem of somebody that should
be running the project.
Mr. Bonte: I just want to make one other comment, in my
business I deal with the public, I do two types of work
for people. I give them a quote on a fixed price basis for
certain types of work and if I screwed up in that estimate,
I eat it. I would never expect a customer to pay one nickel
more for something that I told them was going to cost x.
Even if there were extra materials, time whatever. I also
do probably half of my work on a time and materials basis.
Most people don't like that, but there are certain types
of work where you don't know what is going to happen. I
always give the customer the worst case scenario number
for two reasons. No intension of leading somebody down a
black hole that is going to end up costing them twice than
what they thought it was going to cost because they might
not have done the work in the first place. Secondly, there
is some hidden motivation for me to do that. You always
look good when you are done because it usually comes in
under. That's what we need to start seeing here. We need
to start seeing the worst case scenario numbers. A contractor
should not come in here thinking well, I know they are not
going to buy the $80,000 this is probably going to cost.
They would probably like to hear $50,000 and then we will
change order it up to $80,000 once we are in.
Mr. Perkins: Rich do you understand at a public bidding
law that you have to take normally the lowest responsible
Mr. Bonte: In this case you did not do that. This was not
publicly bid, Gene's company is a professional service.
If you are in the business and you know your business you
should be able to come in here and say to the Town, if everything
goes good, this is what it could happen. Because if you
have been in the business as long as Gene's firm has been
in the business, you have seen it all. You should be able
to tell this Council the other horror story of what could
happen. This guy couldn't do this, that, blah blah blah.
This thing could end up costing you $90,000. The Council
needs to know that. You need to know what the best and worst
case scenario's are. All I have done over the years is come
in here and see everybody come back in afterwards because
this did not work out, that did not work out and we need
more money and everything goes up far in excess of whatever
the contingency funds are including Turkey Brook. So you
need to start getting a better handle on especially these
service type contracts that you don't go out and bid. It
is bad enough what happens with the bid contracts. But on
our professional services, the people that are giving you
good numbers, they should have good expertise behind that
to give you those numbers. I don't question Gene's firm.
What they did was they slipped you a number that maybe they
knew would fly then, best case scenario and now we ended
up with almost doubling this contract.
Mr. Greenbaum: Rich, good point, bad example. I don't think
this is the example where your point makes the most sense.
What I am most troubled with is I sat here; and I was going
to let this go Gene, but I sat here and asked for two months,
where are the change orders? What change orders can we expect?
Gene's explanation is that he thought I was only referring
to Conte. I basically got anything, there's stuff out there,
Conte has talked about this, other stuff, minor stuff, I
can live with that then all of the sudden I get an $45,000
change order from Schoor Depalma. I am troubled by that.
Obviously I have another job full time, I have to rely upon
the information I get both from the Administration and from
the other people who are working for the Township. Here
I am asking the right questions and not getting the answers
that are appropriate. I was convinced after reviewing the
contract, speaking to Gene that Schoor Depalma was entitled
to the money and I don't think in my mind it was anything
which was unexpected. I would have liked it to come in at
the numbers, but after reading the contract and giving it
some it some thought and having thought about it at the
time, it wasn't unexpected to me that there was going to
be additional monies which we were going to have to pay
to Schoor Depalma. I just don't understand why we weren't
given that information and that's really what bothers me.
I think they are entitled to their monies. I think that
under the contract they are being paid what they are entitled
to be paid.
Cheryl Goodwin, Drakestown Road: I would just like to ask
the Council a question on a totally different topic. But
I would comment that if I had any idea how many millions
of dollars it could cost to preserve Open Space, I am really
not sure I would have voted to tax dollars to preserve Open
Space. I could have never imagined it could cost so many
millions of dollars and then to hear about well, and having
to irrigate and to plead further the aquifers that are already
imperiled and herbicides and pesticides. It's not whatever
I imagined as far as Open Space goes. The question that
I had actually was that I read and I think we have eluded
to it tonight. I read in the newspaper that Mt. Olive and
I believe Roxbury are the only towns that in their noise
ordinance that you cannot use power equipment on weekends
and holidays. Does this include leaf blowers and lawn mowers?
I read that Mt. Olive does not have a problem with complaints
and I suspect it's because none of us imagined that anything
like that might exist. Does it in fact include lawn mowers
and leaf blowers?
President Scapicchio: I don't know either. I was a bit
surprised when I saw that article myself.
Mr. Rattner: I believe that our noise ordinance exempts
certain homeowner type of items. Contractors are held with
their feet to the fire, but I know it came up during discussions;
most people do their yard work on weekends. I Mr. Rattner
(cont'd): am pretty sure that lawn mowers and basic things
are exempt. I think at the time we had discussions about
leaf blowers because a lot of people just don't like them
Mrs. Goodwin: I have a situation where it is fortunately
no longer every single day, I am pretty regularly wakened
at 5:15 am or 6:15 am by a neighbors dog. Apparently that's
Mayor Licitra: The dog has 10 minutes.
Mrs. Goodwin: And if you're wakened at 5:15 or 6:15 the
cops say move if you don't like it. Second, prove it that
it's 10 minutes and third, if you have already been wakened
at that hour I sure can't go back to sleep. I find it absolutely
mind boggling. Does anyone know where to look?
President Scapicchio: We could get that ordinance for you
but I think that article was incorrect.
Mr. Rattner: If you look on the internet, Welcome to Mt.
Olive, under I believe Council you can go right to our Code,
put in the words you want. Put in noise and it will go every
place that noise comes up in the Code and everything will
be right there.
Mrs. Goodwin: Thank you very much.
Mr. Rattner: We try to make it as easy as possible for
people to look for it.
Robert Perkoski, Stephens Park Road: Members of the Council,
Mr. Mayor, it's been eight months since that fence issue.
Mr. Dorsey, you asked him as legal representation, what
can you do about? He says you can't go to court, you can't
do this you can't do that. He says, he just talked to him
a few seconds ago and he said you have to present it to
Mr. Mayor, see what he says about the issue. There is documentation
that says that fence has to be there from Chuck McGroarty.
All you have to do is go back into the files and get it
and read it and enforce it. All I want to know is when is
it going to be done?
Mr. Spino: What's the issue?
Mrs. Miller: That housing development.
Mr. Spino: I think I know what we're talking about but
I want to make sure everybody else does as well and then
I know exactly what we are talking about.
Mr. Perkoski: Maybe I should just read it.
Mr. Spino: Talking about the fence between your property
and the development.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don't know that we need to have him read
the whole letter, the issue is that the Planning Board approved
an application which required a type of fence to be installed,
and it was not installed and Mr. Perkoski would like to
have the Planning Board Resolution enforced. We don't need
to get into specifics.
President Scapicchio: When was the CO issued on this piece
Mr. Percowski: This one here is dated June 22, 2001 asking
for a modification in the original plan.
President Scapicchio: Mayor, you can handle this in house,
Mayor Licitra: Absolutely. There will be no reason why
a CO should be issued when they don't check with the Planning
Board Resolution on what was required.
President Scapicchio: But Mayor even if it was an oversight
Mayor Licitra: Maybe it is, but I don't know anything about
President Scapicchio: We could still enforce that. If that
was a requirement we can enforce that and impose a time
limit and if it is not done we can then fine them under
Mayor Licitra: If it is on the resolution, absolutely.
Mr. Greenbaum: Can you come back in two weeks and let us
know if this has been resolved so it does not fall through
the cracks again.
Mr. Perkoski: I will let you know.
Mr. Greenbaum: I just want to make sure, I don't want you
to have to come back and say another eight months has passes.
If we are going to resolve this, in your favor or not in
your favor, let's resolve it.
Mr. Perkoski: The thing was is that it was an agreement
between the two parties and there is no reason why it shouldn't
be done. It was made with the Township. That's it, bottom
line. Otherwise there is no problem.
Mayor Licitra: I agree with you, let me find out and we
will have something back.
Mr. Perkoski: I could call your office and let you know.
President Scapicchio: The Mayor will take care of it for
you Mr. Perkoski.
Mr. Spino: Just to make sure that we make sure who is responsible,
I would assume the developer.
Mr. Percowski: It is nothing to do with the developer,
this is a private entity.
President Scapicchio: Okay. Anyone else from the Public?
Seeing none we will close the Public Portion.
Mr. Rattner: We heard about a lot of problems and we discussed
a lot of issues tonight and the one thing I don't want to
lose sight of is the things that it sounds like we are doing
very very well. You heard about the police and their outreach
program. We know how busy they have been and that is something
that I think the public should be very proud of and that
is something that they should be recognized for. Also, we
keep hearing, tonight was the first complaint that we got
that may not be up snuff. I am sure that Mr. Lynch has been
doing such a good job on all the different fields maybe
this is one he didn't get to yet to really make the improvements,
so it is not that it is not being taken care of, but he
has not brought it up to the same speed he has done on the
other fields. But really with what I hear from all around
Town, people are very happy with what he is doing. That
we are improving the fields. Those are the type of things
that I want to make sure we don't lose sight on. We know
there are certain things we need to do better, there are
certain things we don't do exactly right, but I think the
majority of things are. If you look around, 80% of the items
that are done by the employees in Town, that's handled by
the Administration, people think things are really good
and we heard two tonight. The other is just an observation;
I saw another four car accident at Connelly and Route 46
yesterday afternoon. For the DOT to constantly tell us that
there is no issue that they can't find any problems there.
This was not a rainy day, this was not rush hour, this was
probably about 2:30 pm yesterday afternoon. There are constant
accidents there. This just happened to be one that involved
more vehicles. Nobody got hurt but all vehicles had to be
towed. It was not just a minor thing; it was a pretty good
Mr. Guenther: We have the data, Steve. They did these traffic
studies two years ago before the heavy traffic really started
in there and they have to update it. To get them off the
dime to do anything is impossible.
Mr. Rattner: I know that it's just the fact that there
are accidents happening. They say that they wait until somebody
really gets hurt or a number of accidents. Well I think
it is happening now.
Mr. Guenther: I'll have to keep following up on it.
Mr. Greenbaum: I got my 2002 final tax bill, thank you
Sherry. I find it very interesting, my house was assessed
above the Township average, and my taxes were approximately
$7,500 for 2002. Of that approximately $700.00 went to the
County and $1394 was for running the Municipal Government
and $5,000 was for school taxes. I have to say for $1394,
I think I get a pretty good bang for the buck out of Mt.
Olive Township with tall the services that I get.
Mr. Perkins: Just to say real quick. I found it easier
to work with the Administration, the Old Municipal Building
is going to be a tough nut for us all to look at. I don't
think anybody is going to be able to have a quick answer
for that. Traffic studies I know my co-partner over there
Bernie has been looking at that. I know the Mayor has been
out. Earl was out I've been out there. I have watched, I
have lived close by. I will reiterate what I said before,
until we can convince the DOT that a Jersey barrier needs
to go down there. People will continue to make left hand
turns where they shouldn't. That's all.
Mr. Guenther: Real quick, a question to the Administration,
I noticed here in this Freeholder Newsletter Paul, about
the improvement authority. Have you had meetings with them
at all to see what
Mayor Licitra: I just wrote them the letter that you had
asked me to do after October 9, 2002.
Mr. Guenther: That has nothing to do with this that is
the Historic thing, this is the improvement authority.
Mrs. Jenkins: Bernie, are you talking about the new improvement
authority they just created for financing purposes. Cindy
and I attended a seminar at the Birchwood Manor a couple
of months ago on that and did get a lot of information.
Mr. Guenther: Let's just see if we can get money out of
Mrs. Jenkins: The only problem is the time constraints.
They want to know fairly well in advance what you are going
to capitalize and obviously with us; sometimes we have a
little bit of a delay. That was the one issue.
Mr. Guenther: My last comment is I just want to offer my
condolences to Yankee fans on the Council for what happened.
I guess they don't have to worry about getting the Yes Network
Motion was made for Adjournment. All in Favor, none opposed.
The Meeting Adjourned at 10:05 pm.
BERNHARD D. GUENTHER
I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount
Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a
true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally
convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly
held on February 11, 2003
LISA M. LASHWAY
Mount Olive Township Clerk