Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
October 26 , 2004


The Regular Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to Order at 7:35 pm by Council President Rattner with the Pledge of Allegiance.

MOMENT OF REFLECTION in reflection and prayer for our soldiers overseas protecting us.

OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT ANNOUNCEMENT

According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been given to the Mount Olive Chronicle. Notice has been posted in the Municipal building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township, New Jersey and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL Present: Mr. Buell, Mrs. Labow, Mr. Mund, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum,
Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Perkins

ALSO PRESENT: Mayor De La Roche; Sherry Jenkins, CFO; Robert Casey, Acting Business
Administrator; John Dorsey, Township Attorney; Lisa Lashway, Township
Clerk; also I saw in the audience our Police Chief, Chief Katona.

1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Expressing its’ Gratitude to Susan Quimby for Her Years of Service as a Member of the Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue Squad.

President Rattner: With that, the first thing I have tonight is something that we all enjoy doing, it’s one thing everybody up here can agree on, and it’s to recognize the service of a long-time volunteer, Miss Quimby. Sue has been a long time member and leader of the Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue Squad. She retired from her job and her husband is retired and they’re moving to their retirement home. And with that we have……

RESOLUTION OF THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL OF THE TOWNSHIP OF MOUNT OLIVE
EXPRESSING IT’S GRATITUDE TO SUSAN QUIMBY FOR HER YEARS OF SERVICE AS A
MEMBER OF THE BUDD LAKE FIRST AID AND RESCUE SQUAD

WHEREAS, Susan Quimby has been a resident of Budd Lake for the past 49 years; and
WHEREAS, Ms. Ouimby has been a member of the Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue Squad since 1992 and has served with the most exceptional dedication for the past 12 years; and
WHEREAS, in addition to becoming an Emergency Medical Technician, she served as President of the Budd Lake First Aid Squad for ten years, as well as serving as a crew chief since 1993; and
WHEREAS, her achievements in services provided to the residents of Mount Olive include countless rescue calls, five life saving defribullations, three life saving CPRs and one child birth; and
WHEREAS, in recognition of her achievements, she was honored as the First Aider of the Year by Father Cassidy’s Knights of Columbus; and
WHEREAS, during her tenure as President, Ms. Ouimby has guided the organization by being instrumental in the addition to the Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue Squad’s building, the upgrading of all equipment and the acquisition of a new rescue truck and ambulances;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, and State of New Jersey, on behalf of the citizens and employees of the Township of Mount Olive, honor Susan Ouimby, that we will be forever indebted to Susan Quimby for the contributions she has given to our community and the residents of Mount Olive Township; and that the Township of Mount Olive wishes Ms. Quimhy, her husband Tom and her family, Allison and Kyle, the best of luck and happiness in all of their future endeavors. Clapping….

Ms. Quimby: Thank you everybody for all the support, that’s all I……I couldn’t have done anything….
Thank you.

President Rattner: Thanks to all of her squad members, for showing appreciation.

Mount Olive Lions Club Presentation – Bullet Proof Vest for New Police Officer.

President Rattner: Okay, next we have on the agenda another nice thing, Mount Olive Lions Club making a presentation, again. Who’s going to speak? Just go up to the dais right there, so we have it on the tape, and introduce yourself, so we have it for the record.

John Cuttrone, President Mount Olive Lions Club: I have with me, other Lion members, Lion Don Hill, who I am sure most of you are familiar with, Lion Drew VanDam and Lion Ralph DeVito. Our purpose today is to make another presentation to the Mount Olive Police Department on behalf of our Police Vest Program. We’ve been doing this program…we started the program about 25 to 26 years ago, we raise money through some of our fund raisers to provide the first vest that any new Police Officer receives, the Police vest for protection, and so tonight I would like to make this presentation to Chief Katona. This will be the 95th Police vest that we have given over the past 25 years. If you’re interested in knowing, the cost of these vests range anywhere from $600 to $750 right now. When we first started, it was around $275. So, Chief Katona and Officer Ottovania, right? I would like to make this presentation to you and congratulations and good luck. Clapping….

Officer Ottovania: Thank you, gentlemen.

Don Hill: I have one thing to add to that, while I have your attention, if you don’t mind, the commercial side of it. In order to be able to run these types of programs, and two of the programs that we do in this township is we screen both second and fourth grade students every year. This year we’ll do close to a thousand students, and one of the things that we do is we run a raffle and this year it happens to be a 50/50 raffle with a potential of earning about $4,000 for your investment. So, in your mail tonight you should receive that, if not - next week, and there is also on your bulletin board out there is an opportunity to call any one of the Lions Club members and purchase a raffle ticket. So, thank you very much and we appreciate your listening to us.
Thank you. Clapping….

President Rattner: Okay, we do have one piece of unfinished business. We gave Sue her resolution, but we didn’t vote on it, so it’s not official yet. Now, I don’t know how the vote’s going to go…..you know this Council, you don’t know how it’s going to go.

Mr. Buell: I move that the resolution be moved.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

EXECUTIVE SESSION – Personnel & Litigation

President Rattner: Congratulations, again. Now we have an Executive Session for personnel and litigation. We’ll have that short, so yes, Ed, you can leave. We’re in a special situation tonight. This closed session, I will not invite the Mayor or the Business Administrator to attend, for a very special reason and I will advise everybody that the Council needs to discuss litigation specifically: Wilpert vs. Mount Olive and Ruggierio vs. Mount Olive, in which the Mayor and Administration take an adverse position to the position of the Township Council and, therefore, the Mayor and Administrator are not being invited to this meeting, which should be very short, but we will know the outcome when and if the Council moves on certain resolutions. So, with that, can I get a motion to go into closed session?

Mr. Greenbaum: Motion to go into Executive Session.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Only for those two cases.

Mrs. Lashway: Under section 7 and 8 of the Open Public Meetings Act.

Mr. Greenbaum: Absolutely.

Mr. Guenther: Under section 7 and 8 in the Open Public Meetings Act, I move we go to closed session on the two subjects aforementioned.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously
Closed session began at 7:45 pm.

President Rattner: We need a motion to go back into open session.

Ms. Labow: I make a motion to go back into open session.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

All in favor, none opposed

President Rattner: Okay, we’re back in session (it’s 7:50 pm). The next item we have on the agenda is I asked Mr. DeMaria to come and explain some of his comments and the feasibility of actually building the DPW facility within the confines of the referendum question that the residents of Mount Olive will be voting on next Tuesday. I think most people know that there was a letter written by Mr. DeMaria and we saw some stuff in the newspaper, but you can’t believe everything that you may read there, and Mr. DeMaria was gracious enough to say that he’d come and say what his concerns were and I believe, from my discussions with him, what can be done because a building can be built and I wanted him to explain that to us and to the public and hopefully the press will help get some of the information out, because I think we all agree that this DPW building is very very important for the protection of our equipment, for the safety of our employees, and for the betterment of water quality as related to Budd Lake and the Raritan River. So, Mr. DeMaria….

Mr. DeMaria: Okay, Mayor, Council, thanks a lot for letting me come before you tonight to shed some further light on information I gave you earlier this month, by way of a letter, regarding the Public Works Facility. You know, the first big question is…is the facility necessary, and the question has to be answered yes. This building is absolutely necessary. As a resident, as an architect, from what I’ve seen, you’ve got millions of dollars worth of equipment sitting outside, disbursed around the township, some of it right next to a lake, and I’m not quite sure what the figure would be, but I have to believe that the life of a truck or a plow, or the other equipment that you have, gets cut in half if it’s not housed. So, the building is necessary and I’m here to, hopefully, shed some more light on, you know, how you can get it built. Your request for proposal was ambitious, both in scope and size and, you know, basically you wanted to build a 30,000 to 40,000 square foot building for $1.4 to $1.9 and the numbers come out to about $43.00 to $63.00 per square foot for the building. You’re not going to build a Public Works Facility building with those square foot numbers. A more realistic number, a number that you should use to budget, is around $100 a square foot, and that number is a base number, it could escalate based on some things that are not uncommon in a Public Works building if you choose to want them, like a truck wash facility, like lifts for your trucks, like a rolling crane, okay, but I’m here to tell you that I think that $100 a square foot number is the base that you should use. Now, let’s talk about how ambitious your request for the facility was. In addition to the building, okay, what you included in the request were a number of other accessory things on the site, which, I mean in my opinion, they are needed and they will help the facility operate better, but really took the project out of the realm of realistic affordable numbers. For example, in addition to the building, and there are fifteen other items, but I’ll just give you a couple, you wanted a storm water drainage system for the entire site, you wanted to do all outside lighting for the entire site, security fencing for the site, build the Police Department an impound lot, provide sewer connections and water connections to all the buildings in the back, provide an employee parking area, reroute all of egress and ingress vehicles on the site so that the site flows more efficiently, and there are a couple of other things, a recycling center, reorganization, material storage and handling reorganization. The building plus these things will get you well well well over the $100 a square foot number if you try to do it by square foot. So, what I’m here to tell you is I think you need the building, I know you need the building, it’s just the scope of the building and the dollars that you have allocated, don’t match and let me take one second, just to show you…I mean, this is just a little tool that we use all the time that you can use to plan, okay. Any project that you want to do…can you hear me okay? Any project that you want to design, okay, take your triangle, at any corner put quality, okay, and another corner put cost, and another corner put quantity, alright, that’s square feet, cost – dollars, okay. You have an architect, if you tell him the quantity, how many square feet you need and you tell him how much money you have, he’s going to tell you the quality that you can afford. If you tell him the quality you want and you tell him the quantity you want, he’s going to tell you how much it costs. What we try to do during pre-design, okay, not during design…pre-design, is get these three corners of the triangle in harmony and balance so that none of them is out of wack. Right now, you have two of them that don’t jive. I don’t think that there is really a question about the quality, you don’t want the cheapest building that you can get, but you do want a pre-engineered building that’s well built that has some life. So, right now, I think you just need to go back to the kind of pre-design planning stage and take a look at how many dollars you really have and how many square feet you really can afford. Okay, so, I mean, based on the numbers that we have, if the maximum that you have to spend is around $1.9 million, at $100 a square foot, you can afford a building that’s around 19,000 to 20,000 square feet, which is about a half to two thirds of what you originally, or your referendum states, that you would like to build. So, it’s not like you can’t build anything, I mean, you can do a good job, and I can tell you that Mr. DeMaria(cont’d): many of these types of buildings are designed so that they can be expanded upon in the future. If you can’t build the 30,000 or 40,000 now, if the 15,000 to 20,000 square feet can at least get you started and take care of your basic public works necessities, you can build that building, you can do a good job on it, and in the future, the building can be designed so you can easily add onto it, if the site will allow in the back, which it looks like it will, okay. So, you can have a good project and it looks like you have a project that you can afford, and really I would like to close and just tell you, if you’d like to….if you proceed with a project, if it’s approved in referendum, you’re not throwing good money after bad, okay. You’re putting good money to good use by housing millions of dollars worth of equipment, improving the efficiency of the Public Works Department and its’ workforce and, inevitably, the quality of the services that the people in this town should get. So, I think it’s a doable project, I think you just need to go back and take a look at the quantity and the cost and bring them more in line with what you can expect, because the last thing anyone wants, me, you, the public, is to design a facility, bid it, get ready to build and it comes in and you have bid shock, and then everybody scampers. We have to redesign, we have to find more money, you don’t have the money and everybody looks bad. I don’t want that to happen a year from now or a year and a half from now, hopefully it’s happening right now, and I’ll conclude like that and I’ll take any questions.

Mr. Greenbaum: Joe, first let me say that I appreciate your efforts, both on this issue and other issues that you’ve helped the township on before, the numerous other issues since I’ve been involved. Were you involved, in any aspect, with regard to the original planning of this building and, if so, how?

Mr. DeMaria: No, there was an RFP different than this one, that came out last year with different people, and that’s when I first became aware of what you wanted to do, really walked the property. You really admired the Sparta Public Works Facility, I went up there, I toured that building for half a day with the Public Works Director, just to get familiar with what you wanted and what they wanted.

Mr. Greenbaum: So, did you….did anyone ever come to you and ask you what you thought the cost of what was being proposed was going to be?

Mr. DeMaria: No.

President Rattner: Anybody else have any other questions?

Mr. Guenther: I just wanted to add that Rob, to reiterate the first remarks that he made, I appreciate, you know, again, you doing this on a…how should I say it….a loyal citizen basis, on a kind of a pro-bono basis, and this is not the first time you’ve done that, and we really appreciate your input and the interest that you’ve taken, and I’m just…I guess it’s not…I guess somewhat of a questions is is why we’ve come to this point now, I mean, were you…I remember there was a meeting, which I believe I participated in, because it was originally Mr. Elms that made the suggestion that we could build the building cheaper than it was originally thought, or at least it was thought by the prior Administration. Were you ever….were you invited to that meeting, did you participate?

Mr. DeMaria: No.

Mr. Guenther: So there was no….I’m just curious that at this stage of the game, you know, we come to this conclusion where that meeting, and I don’t know…I don’t remember when it took place, I think it was probably March sometime….

Mr. Buell: March or April.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, I mean, six months have gone by and that somehow the Administration couldn’t have come up with this conclusion before, or come up with some sort of handle on this, and I remember when we discussed the input for the referendum, they even insisted on putting $1.7 million, and we upped it to $1.9 million, just as a contingency, and we still appear to be off, so…it’s just a puzzle to me.

Mr. Mund: Can I ask you some of the assumptions that you’re making with the square footage and the type of building that we’re looking at?

Mr. DeMaria: Yes sir.

Mr. Mund: Are you looking at a Butler type metal fabricated building with one area that is heated and watered and sewage area and then the rest of the building being open or are you looking at that $100 a square foot, with electric and water throughout the whole building?

Mr. DeMaria: I’m looking at a pre-engineered building, similar to a Butler building, with what you’re talking about, however, the building needs water throughout, you need hose dips, the building has to be fire sprinklered, the only pre-engineered parts that you buy when you get a pre-engineered building, are the frame, the skin and the roof. Foundation is not pre-engineered, electrical is not pre-engineered, lighting is not pre-engineered, mechanical is not pre-engineered, the fire protection is not pre-engineered, site work is not pre-engineered, all of the little things that help make the building work better, that you can do, that are very very simple, are not pre-engineered. So, I am looking at and talking about a pre-engineered superstructure.

Mr. Mund: Okay, thank you.

Ms. Labow: Hi Mr. DeMaria. Thank you for your input and your work that you’ve done. I wanted to ask you what made you decide to send your, you know, your comments/your evaluation of it? Was it just that you read it in the paper and you decided that the figures were really far off?

Mr. DeMaria: Well, I’ll tell you…..I’ll give you the history, okay?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

Mr. DeMaria: I got a request for an RFP on August 2nd.

Ms. Labow: Of 2003?

Mr. DeMaria: Of 2004, with this new scope of work.

Ms. Labow: Oh…who did you get that from?

Mr. DeMaria: I got it from DPW Director, Frank McGlynn, Assistant Engineer.

Ms. Labow: Okay.

Mr. DeMaria: Okay. They wanted a proposal to do the building within ten days. I took a look at it and I said well, I have to respond within ten days, just like everybody else. I responded within ten days, mid August, we were on vacation, I came back. Two weeks after I sent the proposal and I followed up and said where are the proposals at? I called this DPW facility, I talked to the Assistant, and I told him you don’t have enough money budgeted for the project that you want to do.

Ms. Labow: You said that to Mr. McGlynn?

Mr. DeMaria: Mr….no, Mr. Quinn.

Ms. Labow: Mr. Quinn.

Mr. DeMaria: Yes, it was the Assistant.

Ms. Labow: Mr. Quinn is the DPW Supervisor….the acting Director, and McGlynn is….

Mr. DeMaria: I told him, you don’t have enough money. He told me, he said, but we want to do a pre-engineered building, we don’t want a custom building, and I told him just what I told you. You’re just getting a pre-engineered superstructure, all the other stuff in the building is not pre-engineered. It has to be designed and conventionally built, along with the site work, and you should take a look at the numbers again. Less than a week later, there was a meeting in this room, not a Council meeting, it was regarding another committee in town, which I was part of, and the Business Administrator was at that meeting. At that meeting I got the Business Administrator, and I told him, you’re not budgeting enough money for what you want to build.

Ms. Labow: This was in August?

Mr. DeMaria: Okay, the RFP came out on August 2nd, my call to Tim Quinn at the Public Works Department was September 3rd, the following week, September 8th I talked to the Business Administrator and re-expressed my concerns to him regarding the size of the building and the cost of the building. I told him, just take a look around town and look at what things are costing. The numbers and what you want to do, do not match, and I was hoping that, with my phone call and my telling the Business Administrator, that I would get a call and somebody would ask me, hey, how did you come up with these numbers?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

Mr. DeMaria: And I never got the call, which led me into…really, I figured I’d wait two weeks and see if anybody contacts me, nobody contacted me. So, it was towards the end of September and I wrote my letter and I got it to you, hoping…hoping that I could catch the project before it went too far.

Ms. Labow: Like going through referendum for the wrong amount of money. See, that’s why I asked you, because I’m really…quite honestly, I’m a little perturbed that all of this correspondence went back and forth….not at you, of course, but that I didn’t hear anything about it, didn’t know anything about it, didn’t know the request was made, didn’t know your figures came in, nothing…until, I think, it was in the newspaper, and I think it would have been nice if the Administration had shared this information with us prior to us having this go to referendum about an inadequate amount of money, but I thank you very much for your effort and your time coming out here. It certainly explains a lot more to me, thank you.

Mr. Buell: Yes, the 15,000 to 20,000 square foot building, this would not have the truck wash facilities, or the lifts, or the rolling cranes?

Mr. DeMaria: No.

Mr. Buell: None of that. This would just be a basic structure at that point in time. Could these things then be added afterwards?

Mr. DeMaria: They could be added.

Mr. Buell: Expensively?

Mr. DeMaria: But we should anticipate, if you want to add them, we should know up front, if there is a possibility.

Mr. Buell: Just another question. This seems to me, and I’ve been involved in the design of many buildings, in terms of working with other organizations, it sounds a very strange way to build a building. At least, I think, somebody should sit down with the people, who are the engineers, and the other people from the outside and ask what needs to be in this building, what is the needs assessment, I mean, did anybody give you the amount of trucks that we have to house in this building?

Mr. DeMaria: No.

Mr. Buell: Did anybody tell you that we wanted these other things….the truck wash and the other….they did tell you that?

Mr. DeMaria: It was mentioned at the walk through that they would like to have a truck wash if they could afford it, yes.

Mr. Buell: But it was just….is this a strange way to….

Mr. DeMaria: Well, this is very strange. Usually, you’re given a very specific design program for what the function of the building will be, how many people are going to be in it, and what the building needs to do, and we were never given that. We were given a one sentence description of what you’d like and, at some point, that would have to be done. It should have been done, in my opinion, if he did it the right way, it should have been before the RFP ever went out. You should have sat down with an architect, sat down with your department heads and discussed how many trucks, how many plows, how they work, what their hours are, is it female and male both together working in this building, and it was never done. So, everyone really needed to guess and I think it’s something that’s going to have to be done before you proceed with anything.

Mr. Buell: In working with other municipalities, have you ever gone through a design like this?

Mr. DeMaria: Never. We’ve always been retained prior to the design part of the project, to just help determine the magnitude and the scope of the project, along with a rough budget, using a simple diagram like that, plus talking to people.

Mr. Buell: On a scale of incompetent to a very competent job done, how would you rate this? On a scale of one to ten, from our standpoint.

Mr. DeMaria: Well, based on what I’ve seen, I would give it a five, but based on my own….my own opinion, my own professional opinion, it’s a one, it’s a one.

Mr. Buell: Thank you.

Mr. Greenbaum: Here’s the problem I have, Joe. This project was being planned before this Administration took office in January. This Administration delayed, first in terms of whether or not they were going to build it, and then in terms of how it was going to get built. Ultimately, the Mayor put Bob Elms in charge of the project and gave Bob Elms free reign in terms of how this was going to get on the table. Quite frankly, the ball was dropped, and it came down late in the year and the Highlands Legislation became a reality, and that’s why this project has been put on the fast track in terms of referendum. You’re absolutely right, this is no way to build a building. You can’t go out to referendum without knowing what your building is going to look like and how much it’s going to cost, and those facts were never presented to Council except in conclusory form. I find it particularly troubling that you had a discussion with Mr. Ruggierio in the beginning of August, where you indicated to him…oh, it was September. We were never advised of your opinion. I don’t know how Mr. Ruggierio arrived at his figure of whatever it was originally, $1.6 million, to build the size building that is included in the referendum, we never got that answer, despite the fact that we asked the questions. This Council sought to add to that number to bring it up to the $1.9 million, without any fact, just so that it appeared to be a conservative number, but we didn’t have the facts, and for several months now, it’s been known by the Administration that the referendum amount was not adequate to cover the cost of the size building which was being proposed, and that was never brought back to Council.

Ms. Labow: I just want to ask you a question. In going over to the new Library and everything, and there was like a couple of concerns about it…like to be able to use the basement and so-on and so-forth, and I had asked the builder, or the construction manager, I said did you like allow in the design for like adding on….and he said no, and then you just brought up a very good point tonight about how when you’re going to build a building, spec it out, you want to keep in mind that you want to add on in the future. Now, how do we make sure that that happens, because I don’t want to build a building knowing that we will have…possibly have future expansion and cut off our opportunity to do so, just make sure the…..

Mr. DeMaria: Well, if we build a 20,000 square foot building, but you tell me you may want to go up to 30,000, we would size the electric transformer up front so that you have enough power for that. If you want to add a rolling crane in the future, we would design just the columns to hold the footings, so that you can do that.

Ms. Labow: Okay. So you have to tell the architect right up front what your future plans are going to eventually…you know, come to, so that you can do the structure, the infrastructure, the basics, to withhold it so you don’t have to do all the add on later on and so-on and so-forth, much cheaper to do it that way than to go back and…..

Mr. DeMaria: Yes, every system in the building, size of water main….

Ms. Labow: And it doesn’t mean you have to build it to that degree at that time, just that you’re prepared for when you are ready to expand, and that’s probably the most cost effective and most efficient way to do it for the municipality in any project actually.

Mr. DeMaria: Yes ma’am

Ms. Labow: Thank you very much.

Mr. DeMaria: You’re welcome.

President Rattner: Mr. DeMaria, I have a couple of questions. You said you went and you saw the Sparta building in your review. The Sparta building basically, when it was built, what….six / seven years a ago.

Mr. DeMaria: 2001 it was occupied.

President Rattner: Okay, so that was about three / four years ago. What was the…do you know what the….how much it cost them per square foot to build that building?

Mr. DeMaria: I didn’t calculate it. I know it was 25,000 square feet and the building cost $1.4 million…just the building, and the Township of Sparta, in house, did an additional $750,000, give or take, of work on their own, bringing it over $2.1 million, which is…for a 25,000 square foot building, it’s just under $100 a square foot.

President Rattner: And what kind of escalator do you use, because you talked about, in your letter, about the cost going up. What was the escalator you used for the four years….I guess the four or five years that went through, because you made mention about you can’t use the cost from then. What kind of escalator would you use…

Mr. DeMaria: I didn’t use any escalation at all, I just looked at what I felt today’s numbers were.

President Rattner: What has the escalation been, you know, based on all the construction…..

Mr. DeMaria: Oh, the escalation has been…five percent a year is a low number.

Mr. Guenther: The price of steel has just recently gone up tremendously, hasn’t it?

Mr. DeMaria: Tremendously, but we’re not looking at just steel, we’re looking at….some labor has actually gone down, but the, you know, you look at a whole building, it’s gone up a lot and it will….every indication that I have, from where I see it, it will continue to go up the way it has. At some point, it’s going to level off, but it will continue to escalate the way it has, I would say for the next, you know, year and a half, two years. If I really knew what I was talking about, everybody would go, you know, play the stock market on the different industries. I can’t guarantee you, but every indication is that it will continue to escalate.

President Rattner: But the bottom line is…that’s why we’re here today, if the referendum passes, we could build a functional building, maybe not the size, not with all the amenities, or whatever we wanted to call it, but we could build a functional building probably in the area of 20,000 square feet.

Mr. De Maria: Yes you can.

President Rattner: And how much would that take? Would that be with everything contracted out, or would the Township be responsible for doing some of the services themselves?

Mr. DeMaria: That would be one general contractor doing the whole project.

President Rattner: Okay, so then the general contractor wouldn’t have to worry about having, you know, another project manager and some of these other things involved.

Mr. DeMaria: Correct.

President Rattner: And that includes site work too, as long as there’s no problems.

Mr. DeMaria: Yes.

President Rattner: So it can be built.

Mr. DeMaria: Yes.

President Rattner: It won’t be the same size and the same amenities as maybe was in the RFP, but it can be done. That’s all I want to get across, because the building is needed and when we talk about building with expansion possibilities, and I’ve used this example now for probably for pretty close to thirty years. Everybody knows the County College of Morris. The County College of Morris was actually built, even for the time, at, I think, a very reasonable price and that was built in eight or nine different stages. The Math and Science Building, I don’t know what they call it now, was three separate expansions, but nobody would ever know, because it was designed right, and that’s the way you do it, you pay as you go and as you need it. You can only build a certain amount, you build it, things get better in a couple of years, you have the opportunity, you build on to it, you just have to. One of the big things is we have to site it properly, so if we want to go out, we know that, yes, if we’re going to expand, this is where we’re going to put it, maybe even put some footings in, so if the laws change again, you don’t have to worry about it. Okay, thank you very much.

Mayor De La Roche: Yes, I have a couple of questions, myself. Were you retained to do this site work?

Mr. DeMaria: No.

Mayor De La Roche: Were you retained to give an estimate?

Mr. DeMaria: I was retained to give you a proposal.

Mayor De La Roche: Oh. Are you aware of all the ramifications of…first of all, did you know how much was going to be done in house? Did you know that the site….the site preparation was being done in house? Did you know that the electrical was going to be done in house? Do you know all these things or are you just assuming all these things? I mean, how deep do you get into the detail of discussion of how this is going to be done?

Mr. Guenther: Well, Mr. Mayor….

Mayor De La Roche: Well, let me ask you this….

Mr. Guenther: Wait a minute, wouldn’t it have been the Administration’s responsibility to give him that information so that he can make a proposal?

Mayor De La Roche: No, I don’t even know…I have no idea where Mr. DeMaria came from, to tell you the truth, but that’s okay……

President Rattner: The Administration brought him in.

Mayor De La Roche: I thought I was asking a few questions here. Like everybody else, I would like to have an opportunity to do it, alright.

President Rattner: Mayor, Mr. DeMaria…..

Mayor De La Roche: So, may I finish…..

President Rattner: Mayor, Mayor, I want to answer a question….

Mayor De La Roche: May I finish asking the questions?

President Rattner: Your Administration asked Mr. DeMaria and brought him in.

Mayor De La Roche: That was done by Mr. McGlynn, which I was not even aware of, but we had been to Sparta, we have been to Washington, we have looked at pre-fab buildings, I know I’ve done them myself, we have been planning on doing the site work ourselves, we were planning on hiring an electrician to do the in-house electrical work. A lot of this is going to be done in-house, and I think you said that even now this could be done if a lot of it is done in-house, right, and let me ask you one other question, right, and I don’t mean to embarrass you but, at the same time, aren’t you the person who was asked to design something for the beach…a pavilion for the beach, and it just…it was rejected because it became so expensive and so exorbitant that we couldn’t build it, I mean, the Council rejected it. Isn’t that true? You’re the same person, aren’t you?

Mr. De Maria: I mean, Mayor, to the contrary, I thought it was very well received…..

Mayor De La Roche: Well, they didn’t do it…..

Mr. DeMaria: With the exception of the price tag…..

President Rattner: Mayor, the government….

Mr. DeMaria: It was a concept for…..

President Rattner: The government asked him to design a building of a certain size. The Council said we didn’t want something that aggressive, that large….it wasn’t that he designed something that we didn’t ask for, the staff that was working on it, like what’s happening today, said we want all these things. It wasn’t that it was a plan by him. I do have a question….is…..

Mayor De La Roche: I’m not….I have nothing….I’m asking a question first…

President Rattner: Who can do in-house…who can do….

Mayor De La Roche: I haven’t finished my question, yet….

President Rattner: I want to know….

Mayor De La Roche: Let me ask the question first….

President Rattner: I want…..you made a representation. Who can do in-house electrical work that’s on the Township payroll? Who can do the site work. I want to know who that is. We don’t have a licensed electrician on the staff.

Mayor De La Roche: I understand that. I understand that.

President Rattner: You just said that we were doing it.

Mayor De La Roche: That’s what I just said, yes, that’s right. What I said was we were going to hire an electrician to do the in-house work, just as Sparta did, just as Washington did, they had an in-house electrician do the work, under his license, but that’s not the point. The point is, Mr. DeMaria…what is it….are you soliciting for the job, is that why you’re here?

Mr. DeMaria: What…

Mr. Guenther: This is inappropriate, Mr. Mayor.

President Rattner: Mayor, I asked him because of representations we saw and the concerns he had, I wanted him to tell us that we can build a building. You’re saying that we’re going to go out, hire an electrician, that’s a contractor to me and you can call that in-house, that’s going out to bid, we have to go out to bid, you can’t do it any other way, we’re not going to put on an employee.

Mayor De La Roche: I don’t think that’s true, I don’t think that’s true that you have to go out to bid for the electrical work, I don’t think that’s’ true.

President Rattner: Well, anyway, Mr……

Mayor De La Roche: Matter of fact, I know it’s not true.

President Rattner: Okay, Mr. DeMaria, I don’t want to put you through this. I just….we wanted to get you here to find out what your concerns were, the fact that a building can be built, I wanted that out, because after what’s been going on back and forth, and listening to the public out there, because there hasn’t been much from this building to try to tell the people why we really need it, other than a brochure. I was hoping, and you did tell us, that we can build…just scale it back a little bit, not put in all the extra things at this point, to let the people know that if they vote for the referendum, we can get a public works building, and I think that’s very important. Every one of us up here want that building. No, Mr. Bonte, wait until the optional Public Portion.

Mayor De La Roche: Okay, did anybody indicate to you that those things are going to be required, that you added in? I don’t….I think that they were excluded way down the road, as I recall.

President Rattner: Mayor, he said it was in the RFP. I’m not going to start cross examining somebody. We asked, as a favor to us, to explain.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I listened to all kinds of opinions here, and I don’t know what they’re based on. Everybody made an awful lot of assumptions based on a lack of information and I want to know, you know, why they’re making these opinions and why would it happen after the referendum has been drafted and ready to go. If I asked another architect, if I get an architect to come in here and say, just as your legal opinion is, your expert opinion is, can I not get an architect to come in here and tell me a building could be built at this price with certain exclusions? Yes or no?

President Rattner: Mr. DeMaria has already said that, thank you very much, Mr. DeMaria.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I don’t think he answered the question.

Mr. Guenther: Yes he did.

Mayor De La Roche: No he did not, no he did not answer the question…..

President Rattner: He’s answered to my satisfaction, and….

Mayor De La Roche: He did not answer the question.

President Rattner: And, I think, the rest of the people up here.

Mr. DeMaria: Mayor, you cannot build a public building like this for $43.00 a square foot. No architect would tell you that, I don’t care where he comes from, it’s not going to happen.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, that’s an opinion, that’s an opinion, right?

Mr. DeMaria: That’s not an opinion, that’s…..

President Rattner: Okay, Mr. DeMaria, I’m trying to save you. Don’t get into a bartering match.

Mr. DeMaria: I appreciate the opportunity, thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you very much for spending your time and giving us some more information. I want to get it through to the public and, like I said, if the referendum is passed, we’ll have to really look at it, and a building can be built, and that’s what I really wanted to get accomplished.

PUBLIC PORTION

President Rattner: Okay, now we come to the optional Public Portion. This is for people who don’t want to stay late. We will have a public portion on the individual ordinances for public hearing and we will have a public portion for our resolutions. So, that we don’t bring up now. Mr. Bonte.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I would just like to address this now while Mr. DeMaria is here. You know, I see what’s going on here tonight and, by the way, Mr. Mund, you’re exempt from my diatribe here.

Mr. Mund: Thank you, Richard.

Mr. Bonte: I see exactly what’s going on here this evening and that is to pin this debacle of a question on the back of the Administration and I’m not letting the Administration off the hook on this. They boggled this beyond belief. They’ve had ample time to determine what this building would cost and present that to the Council and on a scale of zero to ten, it’s a zero, there’s no doubt about it. With that said, this Council was fully aware in August, even though it didn’t have the information from Mr. DeMaria, but this facility could probably not be built for $1.9 million, and I give you all a zero for putting this on the ballot, because it was inappropriate. Now when I hear Mr. Rattner state that, well maybe we can build something less, the public needs to know this, this is basically fraud. You sent out last week, at taxpayer expense, a document and you have on the ballot a question that says that a 30,000 to 40,000 square foot building will be built for $1.9 million. I don’t want to hear about in-house and what’s not going to show, because when the final accounting is done, you need to roll up all of the contractual costs and all of the in-house costs, and if that exceeds $1.9 million, you have lied to the public.

President Rattner: Mr. Bonte, the Clerk is pulling the question, I don’t believe the question had a square footage in it.

Mr. Bonte: Well, the document you sent out does, and the document says what the question is.

President Rattner: That’s not the referendum…..that’s not the resolution.

Mr. Bonte: I believe it has the question.

President Rattner: I’m not talking about a mailing, what the Administration….I’m not talking about mailing, I’m talking on the question on the ballot.

Ms. Labow: We’re talking about the referendum.

Mr. Bonte: The question reads: “Shall the Township of Mount Olive construct a new Department of Public Works garage and facility at the new Municipal Building Complex Site, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, which would be approximately 30,000 to 40,000 square feet at a cost not to exceed $1.9 million?” That’s what it says the question says. So, if the question doesn’t say that, then you’ve lied to the public….

Mr. Greenbaum: We didn’t send that out.

Mr. Bonte: You authorized this, you looked at it last week.

Mr. Greenbaum: Oh, I wasn’t here, I’m sorry.

Mr. Bonte: Okay.

Mr. Greenbaum: I wasn’t….and I didn’t vote for the referendum, either, so…

Mr. Bonte: So, basically….I think the most noble thing for this body to do, with the press here tonight, is to announce to the residents of this township, that for all practical purposes, we’re withdrawing the question, regardless of whatever is voted, we will not proceed on this because we recognize that we can’t give you what we’ve asked you to vote on. I think that’s what this Council needs to do. Just like when a candidate withdraws from the race, his name is still on the ballot, but he’s not in the race, because I don’t see…the credibility of this governing….of this government, and I speak to the Council and the Administration, will be worthless. You can’t go in and say, oh we’ll give you a 20,000 square foot building. You asked us to vote on a 30,000 to 40,000 square foot building. There was a promise made. I think the members of the Council that approved the mailing of this document should cough up the money out of their own pockets to pay for this, because another $5,000 that we’ve got to eat for something you knew couldn’t be done. So, that is my recommendation to this Council and I guess Lisa will verify what the question says. Thank you.

Mr. Guenther: I want to answer that in this way. It is the Administration’s responsibility to put a proposal before the Council to vote on, we are not experts on construction; we are not experts on what’s feasible and what’s not feasible. The Administration did not do its’ homework in presenting us that information. If they’re saying 30,000 to 40,000 can be built for $1.9 million, that’s the statement that Mr. Elms made when we first had our meetings, and that’s why he was given the project, appointed by the Administration back in March, and for six months nothing was done and nothing further was brought forward, the only word of descent that came was from Mr. DeMaria, and we had to act on it last week in order to get it out the public. I probably agree with Mr. Bonte, I regret at this stage that I did vote for it, but I just wanted to put that into prospective. To blame the Council for something that, you know, we don’t have the expertise on, is not right.

President Rattner: Thank you, Mr. Guenther. A couple of different things, one, I know what was in the question, because I wrote it, because the Administration couldn’t handle it, if you remember what went on, and all the different drafts, and I was right, I have the exact resolution here. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive to submit question of constructing a capital improvement, namely a Department of Public Works garage and facility. Now, therefore be it resolved by the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive as follows:

That a non-binding referendum be placed upon the November 2nd, 2004 ballot asking the following question:
Shall the Township of Mount Olive construct a new Department of Public Works garage and facility at the Municipal Complex, at the site of 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, at a cost not to exceed $1.9 million, and authorizing the municipality to issue bonds in the amount of $1.8 million. Now, wait a minute, there’s mixed…..there’s an explanation….an explanatory statement that accompanies it and it doesn’t say anything in there. The following statement should accompany the ballot: The Public Works building is the last component to the Municipal Complex plan developed at the time the current property was acquired. The complex is the geographic center of the township, the facility will replace the current facilities that are undersized, expensive to maintain, and do not meet OSHA and building codes. The building will be afforded the protection….will afford protection for the township’s investment of DPW equipment and speed response time to adverse weather conditions. The location behind the Municipal Building will allow increased supervision and security and be adjacent to the Maintenance Garage. The Mayor and Township Administrator and Township Clerk are authorized to take all steps necessary to accomplish objectives set forth in this resolution. That’s exactly word for word the legal document I signed on August 17th, 2004. I wrote it because I didn’t want it tied down, we were serving a need, that was something the Administration didn’t want to do. If the Administration now sends something out that intentionally misrepresents something…they’re saying that’s the ballot question, then there’s a problem there. That’s a separate problem all together. When I went through this, I shouldn’t have to write these things, and actually at the time, the Mayor actually thought that this was very good, it doesn’t say anything about the size, it just says not to expend more than a certain amount of money, because I thought that was important. We’re serving a need, we don’t know what we really need and how big it has to be, and everybody has to remember, the Highlands Legislation, just like we’ve been reading about Jefferson, they can’t build anything, because the entire town is in the Highlands. The law only exempts public buildings if it’s passed by referendum, prior to January 1st, 2005. This was the only time we could get it on the ballot. After that, then we have to go…it’s a matter of two/three years, then you have to go through the President Rattner(cont’d): extra permitting processes, going through the Highlands Council, get on their agenda, and we don’t even know what the regulations are. It could be five years before we could move ahead, and we really don’t have that much time. That was the issue. I thank the Clerk for digging that out for me.

Mr. Bonte: I thank the Clerk too, but now the issue is everybody that was here last week, looked at this document and said it looks good and sent it out.

Mr. Guenther: At the meeting they came and presented and stuck it in front of us, we did not have time to look at it before the meeting, alright. They stuck it in front of us, they came and passed it around as we were meeting and we were expected to vote on it that night.

President Rattner: We just said…we didn’t take a vote, we just said go ahead and send it out, it wasn’t a formal vote. We asked the Administration to send out the informational piece, we did, we got it, we looked at it, it looked good, we even said there’s some spellings and we just went there. Obviously, what happened was is whoever put it together, looked at a wrong version of the referendum, not the one that’s on the ballot. That is the ballot question.

Mr. Bonte: Mr. Mayor, we want our money back.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I haven’t seen it yet, I wasn’t here last week, as you probably will recall. My wife was in the hospital and I was not here.

Mr. Bonte: Who’s responsible for this document?

Mr. Casey: I will, I’ll take full responsibility and I also want to respond to Mr. DeMaria’s questions. The Sparta facility is not a good example, I’m very familiar with it, having done work in Sparta for the Public Works Department three time, it is a full maintenance garage, including full bays, full lifts, it has a full, unusable by the way, treat…..water bay in there, with a very exotic backwash filter which doesn’t work. This building that’s being talked about here, in the discussion we got in last week, was a shell of a building. We have never planned, as far as I can tell, in talking and looking at the file, to put in that building maintenance facilities. We already have a maintenance facility. We already have a wash facility. So the issue is, and the Council…question came up last week, can you build a building of 30,000 to 40,000 square feet for $1.9 million? The answer is yes. The issue is how far do you finish it off? That’s the reality of the question. Implication comparing this building to the Sparta building is wrong. If you compare this building to, for instance, the Roxbury building, which is now over by the Gallo Pit, or this building to the Washington Township building, you’ll find it’s a different type of construction. So, the question that came up last week to discuss with the governing body, is could you build this building for 30,000 to 40,000, I said sure you can. The issue is the amount of the amenities inside. You agree? You can skin the building, you can put in a slab, you can put in the concrete and put a building up for 30,000 to 40,000 square feet for $1.9 million.

Mr. DeMaria: No, I don’t think you can.

Mr. Casey: I disagree with you.

President Rattner: Wait a minute……we can…..Mr. DeMaria….we can’t pick you up, you know, over there, we’re not going to get bartering back and forth. I asked your opinion…the big thing is based on the question, because we don’t know what it’s going to cost because the planning hasn’t been done to specifics and, you know, you’re talking about quality, functionality, the service life, and I understand that. The bottom line is, if based on the question and it’s not deceiving the people, based on the question that we vote to put on the ballot to make it that simple, that if the people vote for it, we can get a functional building. We don’t know the size, we don’t know the amenities, and it’s going to be determined by the cost. We told the people we wouldn’t spend more than $1.9 million, if we could only build two-thirds of the building now, and we’ll expand it later, that’s fine because we’ve solved two-thirds of our problem.

Mr. Guenther: Well, I think, in the original discussion that we had in trying to meet the deadline and getting it on the ballot, was precisely that. I mean, we brought it up…well, how can we put this on the ballot without knowing what the details are, and that question, unfortunately, it gets back to the Highlands Legislation, do we want to wait? It can take up to three / four / five…..we don’t know how long, and the cost will be exponentially higher, we know that. So, we made a tradeoff. It was probably, in retrospect, in an ideal situation, as Mr. DeMaria says, it wasn’t the right thing to do, we didn’t have all our ducks in a row, but we had to get something on the ballot in order to try to meet the provisions of the Highlands Act.

President Rattner: Okay, thank you Mr. Guenther. Mr. Greenbaum, and then we want to end this discussion.

Mr. Greenbaum: Rich, what I’m hearing from the Administration, from Mr. Casey and from the Mayor, is that a building of 30,000 to 40,000 square feet can be built for under $1.9 million, which is the same information that we had gotten prior to deciding to move forward with the referendum. The only opinion I’ve heard to the contrary is Mr. DeMaria’s, a licensed architect, but if the Mayor is willing to live or die with his opinion that this building can be built for $1.9 million and that’s what’s going to be spent, $1.9 million or less, and we’re going to get a 30,000 to 40,000 square foot building, then I’m willing to live with the Mayor’s opinion on that issue.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I think that what you want to live with the Mayor’s opinion is that it complies with the referendum and that was something that we all agreed on, including me, Mr. Rattner, and I believe yourself, if you were here that night.

President Rattner: We agreed and that’s all I wanted to get accomplished tonight to the building, of service, based on the referendum, if it passes, we can build a building and we’ve done that. So, now we’re going to move on. Any other questions from the public at this point? Yes sir.

Nelson Russell, Budd Lake: I’ve got some questions on the bill list. On page 1 I’m seeing, under General Capital, $14,712.14 for Francis Brennan, P.E. for September professional service. What professional service are we buying?

Mr. Greenbaum: Litigation related….Turkey Brook litigation related.

Mr. Russell: That’s Turkey Brook litigation?

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes, the 800…..it’s Olympus, yes Olympus. It’s the Olympus litigation…Turkey Brook litigation.

Mr. Russell: Thank you.

Mr. Greenbaum: He’s our engineering expert.

Mr. Dorsey: He’s our forensic engineer, who gives the opinion, essentially, that Olympus’s design team committed malpractice or something in that category.

Mr. Russell: Okay, good, thank you. On page 7, second from the bottom, Integra, Krauser & Cirz professional services.

Mr. Dorsey: They’re township appraisers….the appraising firm that has appraised for the township for the last thirty years.

Mr. Russell: Okay.

Mr. Dorsey: I think that has to do with the condemnation action, Smith Farm.

Mr. Russell: Third from the top on page 12, $2,704.00 for Ponyshare….$2,704.00 for Ponyshare, page 12, third item down.

Ms. Jenkins: What is it that you want to know about it? It’s a recreational program, what is it specifically…..

Mr. Russell: It says payment for Ponyshare program…what is the Ponyshare program?

Ms. Jenkins: I don’t know off hand, Kathy do you know what that is?

Ms. Labow: I know what it is. Should I answer? The Recreation Department had a program this summer to teach the children how to care for ponies and what….it actually worked out to be a really good thing because, over in the….actually, Jim Lynch could probably answer better than I can, they actually were able to cut into the….over three miles worth of trails, over in the B&H property, and what they did was the children were able to…they would pay…the parents would pay a sum of money for them to come and learn how to care for the horses, the ponies, and they’d ride them around in Turkey Brook Park, and that fee is part of the program for them.

Mr. Russell: And the town is paying for that?

Ms. Labow: No, no.

Mr. Buell: This is reimbursement.

Ms. Labow: No, this is reimbursement.

Mr. Russell: Okay, good.

Ms. Labow: It was an excellent program, I just thought it was extremely popular, the first year it was done.

Ms. Jenkins: Thanks, Colleen.

Mr. Russell: Similar on page 13, we’ve got $2,056.00 for Tennis Cure.

Ms. Jenkins: Again, that’s the same thing. You’re looking at expenses that are all under the Recreation Utility and those are all things that are offset with program costs for the people that participate.

Mr. Russell: So, they’re not coming out of the taxpayer’s…..

Ms. Jenkins: No, they’re not.

Mr. Russell: Okay, that’s what I was concerned with, and one last one on page 16, $3,000.00 for the painting of the Village Green Tank. Isn’t that Village Green’s property?

Mr. Greenbaum: It’s our water system.

Mr. Russell: Does that water serve other than Village Green? Or is that water for Village Green properties?

Mr. Greenbaum: We own the water system.

Mr. Russell: We own the water system.

Mr. Greenbaum: So, to the extent that we own the water system, irrespective of who it serves, we charge a fee for water services.

Mr. Russell: Okay.

Mr. Greenbaum: We are the owner of that facility.

Mr. Russell: Alright, thank you.

President Rattner: Anybody else from the public? I would like to close this public portion.

Questions on Bill List?

President Rattner: Moving right along. From the Council, any questions on the Bill List?

Mr. Buell: Yes, just one. There are an awful lot of Homestead Rebates. I thought that was a State program, how come we’re reimbursing people for the Homestead Rebate?

Ms. Jenkins: Yes, Mr. Rattner actually asked that question yesterday, and the way that it works is, it is a property tax relief program, but if the property taxpayers are not current on their taxes, then we get to keep the proceeds. We have to follow…we actually have to file a report with the State showing anyone who’s delinquent and it takes usually three or four months, from the time we file, to get the checks. So, in the meantime, if the taxpayers have paid up, then we’re obligated to refund them the amount of the rebate, okay.

Mr. Buell: And one other question, invoice #04131201, the new sign for the courtyard for the Municipal Building? What sign is that?

Ms. Jenkins: Yes, Jim correct me if I’m wrong, but those are the new signs that you had posted showing where the different departments are and whatnot, when you first come in the building, correct?

Mr. Lynch: Correct.

Mr. Greenbaum: By the way, Jim, they look really good.

Mr. Buell: Yes they do.

President Rattner: Anybody….anything else from anybody? Okay, so we’ll have no problems when we get to the bill list at the end of the meeting.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS

September 14, 2004 Present: Mr. Buell, Mrs. Labow (7:33), Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Perkins and Mr. Elms

September 21, 2004 Present: Mr. Buell, Ms. Labow (7:38), Mr. Guenther, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Greenbaum,
Spec. Public Meeting Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Elms

October 18, 2004 Present: Mr. Buell, Ms. Labow, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr.
Special Meeting Mund, Mr. Rattner
High School Absent: Mr. Perkins

President Rattner: Okay, we have approval of Minutes, Ms. Labow, would you move the Minutes for the three meetings?

Ms. Labow: Yes, I would like to move for approval of the Minutes from the 14th Public Meeting, 21st Special Public Meeting, and October 18th Special Meeting at the High School.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion or corrections? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Mund abstained on September 14th & 21st

CORRESPONDENCE

LETTERS FROM RESIDENTS / ORGANIZATIONS

1. Letter received October 12, 2004, from Knights of Columbus regarding Annual Scholarship Dinner Dance.

2. E-mail received October 22, 2004, from Kim Garcia – Drakestown Road regarding Stop Sign at Mine Hill – Drakestown – East Avenue.

3. E-mail received October 21, 2004, from Diane Honore regarding Mount Olive Child Care and Learning Center.

RESOLUTIONS, ORDINANCES, CORRESPONDENCE FROM OTHER TOWNS

4. Ordinance received October 12, 2004, from Township of Chester regarding Land Use.

5. Resolution received October 19, 2004, from the Borough of Madison requesting Governor McGreevey to Implement a State Sponsored Financial Aid Program for Military Reservists and National Guard members Deployed in the Global War on Terror.

6. Two Ordinances received October 21, 2004, from Washington Township regarding Land Use.

DOT / DEP / LOI

7. Letter received October 13, 2004, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Hardship Transition Area Waiver Approval Applicant: Gary Forgey / Douglas Lessig Block 3305; Lot 28. (51 Center Street)

8. Letter received October 14, 2004, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Individual Freshwater Wetlands Permit Applicant: Rezamir Estates, Inc. Project Name: Deerfield Estates.

LEAGUE OF MUNICIPALITIES

9. Letter received October 12, 2004, from Morris County League of Municipalities regarding League Luncheon.

10. Letter received October 12, 2004, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding consulting period on general municipal topics.

11. Letter received October 12, 2004, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Pay to Play and Local Government Contracts.

12. Letter received October 18, 2004, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding League Seminar in Cooperation with the New Jersey Division of Taxation.

13. Legislative Bulletin received October 18, 2004, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Bills that were enacted as the Public Laws of 2004.

MISCELLANEOUS

14. Certification of the Table of Equalized Valuations received October 14, 2004, from the State of New Jersey Department of Treasury Division of Taxation.

15. Certification of Average Ratios and Common Level Ranges for Use in the Tax year 2005 received October 14, 2004, from the State of New Jersey, Department of the Treasury Division of Taxation.

16. E-mail received October 15, 2004, from Morris County Chamber of Commerce regarding Luncheon event at Dolce Hamilton Park.

17. E-mail received October 15, 2004, from Morris County Chamber of Commerce regarding Economic Outlook / Small Business Awards Luncheon.

18. Letter received October 20, 2004, from PMK Group regarding New Jersey Stormwater Pollution Prevention Planning Workshop.

19. Letter received October 21, 2004, from State of New Jersey, Department of Community Affairs regarding Greyfields Development Pilot Program.

UTILTITIES

20. Fax received October 12, 2004, from Comcast regarding WNET-DT Thirteen World.

21. Notice received October 12, 2004, from public hearing scheduled by the NJ Board of Public Utilities.

22. Letter received October 15, 2004, from Comcast regarding (PBS addition) to channel 242.

LETTERS FROM LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVES

23. E-mail received October 7, 2004, from Congressman Frelinghuysen regarding fighting for change to Homeland Security Funding Formula and House Overwhelmingly Rejects Military Draft.

MSA / MUA

24. Minutes received October 12, 2004, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding September 1, 2004 meeting.

25. Letter received October 19, 2004, from Hackettstown Municipal Utilities Authority regarding HMUA / NJDEP Water Approvals.

President Rattner: Okay, we have 25 items of correspondence. Would anyone like to comment on any of the
correspondence? Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: The letter…the e-mail that you received, Mr. Rattner, number two, does that refer to the Ordinance on the….did I….

President Rattner: Yes.

Mr. Buell: Okay, that was the one question.

President Rattner: Yes, I talked to that resident…she happens to be a resident of Washington Township, the way that the road goes down the middle. I assured her that, you know, it was just the process we had to take, it was introduced a month ago, and it would be passed tonight and in a couple of weeks, I didn’t see it not going through, it would be…the sign would be posted.

Ms. Labow: I have a question…so she’s a Washington Township resident, so the bus that she was talking about…the bus driver picking up a child was from Washington?

President Rattner: Washington Township.

Ms. Labow: Okay. I was concerned when the e-mail…she said that the bus driver said that people can still make the turn, but I know that…when my children have been picked up by the bus, the bus drivers…when there’s a situation like that, they kind of like…block the whole entire thing so nobody can get around or anything, so….

President Rattner: I mentioned that to her and she said that she’s already talked to the school, and because of the way the intersection is so wide, and the way that it turns around, if she did that, then the other side would be open. You know, you can’t stay in the middle, because this is somebody who turned behind the bus, so you’re really not passing it.

Ms. Labow: You’re not passing it, okay, I understand, thank you.

President Rattner: Okay, anybody else, any other correspondence?

ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING

President Rattner: Moving right along, we’ll go to Ordinances for public hearing. I open the public hearing
on Ordinance #26-2004, entitled:

Ord. #26-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing Salaries of the Department Heads, Supervisory and Certain Non-Union Personnel and for the Employees of the Township Clerk’s Office for the Year 2004.

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this Ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll
close the public portion and as Mr. Mund to move it.

Mr. Mund: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #26-2004.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: I’ve heard a lot of discussion, going back and forth regarding this salary ordinance and I just want
to state for the record that I was at the meeting when a partial version of the salary ordinance was brought
forward by the Administration. At that time, Mr. Rattner very specifically asked the Mayor was it his intent to
give everyone a 4.25% in accordance….you know, keeping in line with the labor…or the union employees. The
statement was made yes, I do and Mr. Perkins cautioned him, asking…was that what he wanted to do and said
that he was opposed to that, he preferred merit increases. The Council went forward, got the figures to go
forward, this in no way, shape, or form, in my opinion, did this Council ever try to usurp the Mayor’s right to set
salaries. We were working…going on what he stated at the meeting and the proof is in the minutes, on tapes,
and in the transcription that that was the direction he gave us. Thank you.

President Rattner: Ms. Labow, I just want to add that, at the next meeting, Mr. Ruggierio…yes, the
Administration because he was….we got that before we introduced this version, actually gave…after we had the
one I introduced, that we didn’t vote on. The next week Mr. Ruggierio gave me their version of the Ordinance
President Rattner(cont’d): and all we did was clean it up, we didn’t change any numbers, in fact, the Mayor
did take the position to make some retroactive salaries to start dates that we’ve never done before, but because
we agreed that we had no say over anything under than a department head, we put his numbers in. So, the
numbers that were in there was based on the draft that was given to me by Mr. Ruggierio, we just cleaned it up a
little bit and put it into the format we usually do with the same words, but the amounts and the names did not
change.

Mr. Mund: I have a question regarding the process, I guess. How come it’s so late in the year? Is it typically
that way? Do we try to start it earlier in the calendar year? You would think so.

Ms. Labow: That’s why Council finally went forward and did this.

Mr. Guenther: You haven’t been around for the last eight months.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Now we come up to a……Ordinance #26-2004 is passed on second reading and I hereby
direct the Clerk to forward a copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by
law. Now, we do come up with an interesting situation, because the Administration, a meeting or two ago, gave
us a resolution to pay….not wait the 20 days that we would normally require the payment on an Ordinance,
because it’s time for the Mayor to make a decision, it can be, I guess, appeals. I need to know whether the
Mayor is going to approve the Ordinance, so we know whether we’re going to go forward with the way that the
resolution was written, to immediately allow the CFO, which I know she’s been working on, at least from what I
gather, for the last couple of weeks, because it was a lot of work in getting the retroactive amounts and they had
to have a point in time. Are we going ahead with that? So, are you going to sign the Ordinance, Mayor? The
Clerk will bring you down the actual Ordinance, so you can look at it. We have another one for the part timers.

Mr. Casey: The Mayor indicated he would sign the Ordinance.

President Rattner: Okay, and then when we get to the resolutions, we will have a resolution allowing the….as
soon as the CFO….are they ready?

Ms. Jenkins: They’re ready. I just did want to say, though, and I think I probably speak on behalf of all the
employees, that we do appreciate that it went through and we appreciate the Mayor signing it and we are
definitely looking forward to our retro checks, so…thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you. We now open the hearing to the public on Ordinance #27-2004, entitled:

Ord. #27-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing Drakestown Road and Mine Hill Road as a Stop Intersection for Westbound Traffic.

President Rattner: Does anybody from the public want to speak to the Council on this Ordinance? We did get
some correspondence from residents in the area who were supporting it. Seeing none, I’ll close the public
hearing and ask Mr. Guenther to move it.

Mr. Guenther: I hereby move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #27-2004.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Ordinance #27-2004 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a
copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. Now I open the hearing to
the public on Ordinance #28-2004, entitled:

Ord. #28-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Certain Stop Intersections and Specifically Amending and Supplementing Ordinance No. 52-2002.

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this Ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll
close the public portion and ask Mr. Buell to move it.

Mr. Buell: I move Ordinance #28-2004.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Rattner: Okay, any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Ordinance #28-2004 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a
copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. Now I open the hearing to
the public on Ordinance #29-2004, entitled:

Ord. #29-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing the Fees to be charged for
Copies of Documents Requested through the Municipal Prosecutor for Municipal Court
Discovery.

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this Ordinance?

Mr. Bonte: Do we have an Ordinance in town presently that deals with this subject?

Mr. Dorsey: The answer is we have had an ordinance, but this particular ordinance is a result of an action
brought involving I’m going to say 300 municipalities in which they found that often times, this does not have
anything to do with the Mount Olive Police Department, of course, a citizen would write in and say I would like
discovery, he’d get one page, but the standard was to charge him $25.00 on the basis that that was it. There was
a class action that resulted, because of that action, and there was a settlement, and every municipality
including…and all the costs of that were picked up by the Morris JIF, but this ordinance was required to be put
in place. It may do nothing but reemphasize what has been the practice in Mount Olive, but that’s why it’s
being adopted.

Mr. Bonte: Is there any provision, either in our…if we do have an Ordinance now, or in the State law, that if
one is found not guilty, he’s reimbursed the fees he has to pay for these documents?

Mr. Dorsey: No.

Mr. Bonte: Would that be something that Mount Olive could do? I mean, I would feel that that would be most
appropriate, that if an individual is found not guilty, he shouldn’t have had to have paid to obtain public
documents to use in his defense, I mean, he wasn’t guilty of the crime in the first place.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, theoretically, I would say that it is an ordinance that Mount Olive could adopt, I don’t think
there’s any great movement to do that, but legally I suppose we could.

Mr. Bonte: Well, I’m just suggesting that it would be most equitable to somebody that is found not guilty, to
receive reimbursement for the cost they laid out to prove their innocence. Thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you, Mr. Bonte. Anybody else from the public like to address the Council on this
ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion and ask Mr. Greenbaum to move this one.

Mr. Greenbaum: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #29-2004.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

Mr. Greenbaum: Rich, just to respond to you, I don’t think it’s practical. I practice in the area of municipal
court throughout the County. Generally, the charges are, you know, less than $20.00, unless you’re an
extremely complicated matter. You can defend your case without having the documents, if you so choose, and
just like requesting any other documents from the township, whether it be a duplicate tax record or the like,
there’s, you know, it’s not a cost that I think can be set back, nor do I think that any township in any County that
I…or any township that I have a practice in, has such a policy and I think that there’s probably a reason for it.
It’s a nice thought, but it’s not going to happen.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Ordinance #29-2004 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a
copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. Now I open the hearing to
the public on Ordinance #30-2004, entitled:

Ord. #30-2004 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing
Salaries of Certain Non-Union Personnel for the Year 2004.

President Rattner: Would anybody like to speak to the Council on this Ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close the
public portion and ask Mr. Buell to move this one.

Mr. Buell: I move Ordinance #30-2004.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Questions?

Mr. Mund: Shouldn’t there be some statement in here that this is an hourly rate?

Mr. Guenther: I agree.

Ms. Labow: I think it’s a good point.

Mr. Dorsey: Well see, Ms. Jenkins prepared this Ordinance, do we indicate that?

Ms. Jenkins: Thanks, John, that’s fine.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, you have tenure now, I can say anything I want.

Ms. Jenkins: Yes, I completely agree that that would make sense.

President Rattner: Is that a….that’s not….would you consider that a substantive change?

Mr. Casey: No, because I think it’s implied.

Ms. Labow: So, you just put per hour?

President Rattner: Do we have to modify it, or do we just put in the word…..or how would be the proper way
to do it to make sure it’s right?

Mr. Dorsey: Let the Clerk attach a memo to the Ordinance that it’s to be clarified…that the Ordinance is
clarified at the discussion at the public hearing that all of the rates are hourly rates, right?

Ms. Jenkins: All except the Nurse.

Mr. Mund: The Health Department Nurse is a yearly rate.

Mr. Dorsey: All except the Health Department Nurse, is an hourly rate.

President Rattner: Okay?

Mrs. Lashway: Okay.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Good pickup, Mr. Mund, I think. Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Ordinance #30-2004 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a
copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. Now I open the hearing to
the public on Ordinance #31-2004, entitled:

Ord. #31-2004 Bond Ordinance Providing a Supplemental Appropriation of $60,000 for Various
Improvements to Turkey Brook in and By the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of
Morris, New Jersey And Authorizing the Issuance of $57,000 Bonds or Notes of the
Township for Financing Part of the Appropriation.

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this Ordinance? Seeing no public comment, I’ll close the public portion and ask Ms. Labow to move it.

Ms. Labow: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #31-2004.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

Ms. Labow: This is the Ordinance that we discussed quite a bit at length, I really….for the $60,000, we discussed that we will be making some changes, we’re actually reducing this fee and taking some money out of the tree banking, and what was the….and I heard….

President Rattner: No, this is not….this is the one that says this is brand new money.

Ms. Labow: This is brand new money.

President Rattner: Yes. This is the one that we, you know, that some of us said that we were not going to support and we said to reduce the amount.

Ms. Labow: Right.

President Rattner: This is not taking it from other Ordinances…we…this is something….

Ms. Labow: No, no, no. This is the Ordinance we were talking about last week and that we were going to take these out of the project, so we’re not going to be actually needing….

President Rattner: So we don’t….

Ms. Labow: We don’t need this whole amount.

President Rattner: Well, I took the position that I wasn’t going to spend any additional money.

Ms. Labow: My question is….

President Rattner: It has to be on for public hearing.

Ms. Labow: It has to be on, because we introduced it.

President Rattner: If you don’t want it, you vote no, and it will die.

Ms. Labow: Alright, but, the question is is if we vote this down, then the project can’t go forward, is that correct…didn’t we talk about it last week?

Mr. Mund: No, we were using other money.

Mr. Casey: If I might, if you look at Ordinance #44-2004, that has the supplemental money that you’re talking about next week, so….you’re introducing tonight the Ordinance which would provide the funds that you were talking about last week.

Ms. Jenkins: And that Ordinance is fully funded, there’s no….that just formalizes the funding, which is coming from the dedication donation account that we have, the tree bank fund….

Ms. Labow: This one, Sherry, is fully funded?

Ms. Jenkins: No, not the one that’s on right now, but the one that’s on for first reading, number 44.

Ms. Labow: So, what we don’t want to go through this one, because we’ve changed it.

President Rattner: We’re voting it down.

Ms. Labow: We’re voting it down, right. That’s just what I wanted to make it perfectly clear and sure, thank you. It takes a few minutes.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Unanimously voted down

President Rattner: The Ordinance fails due to a lack of a single vote. Okay, next I open the hearing to the public on Ordinance #32-2004, entitled:

Ord. #32-2004 Bond Ordinance providing for the Acquisition of Open Space in and By the Township of
Mount Olive, In the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating $3,300,000 Therefore
and Authorizing the Issuance of $2,185,000 Bonds or Notes of the Township to Finance
Part of the Cost Thereof. (Silver Spring)

President Rattner: This is the Silver Springs property. Anybody from the public like to address the Council
on this Ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion and ask Mr. Mund to move it.

Mr. Mund: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #32-2004.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

Ms. Labow: I just want to make one really quick comment that I think some people misunderstood and thought
that we were buying this property for this full price, it’s just that we need to appropriate the funds, but we will
be receiving Green Acres money for this, it’s not going to actually cost us this amount of money. I think Kathy
Murphy told us the price was….

Mr. Dorsey: Yes, all of that is correct…the purchase price is $3.3 million, we must have an Ordinance that
authorizes the full expenditure, even though we may only contribute, I don’t know, $800,000 to the purchase,
and that…the monies that are not needed, simply don’t get bonded for, and that’s the way it works out, and for
Mr. Mund’s edification, it takes five votes to pass a bond ordinance. So, I hope you’ve lined them up.

Ms. Labow: I just wanted to clarify it, thank you, John.

President Rattner: Just so you know, just to even clarify that more, when we talk about the $800,000, that’s
the worse case scenario. We’ve gotten the $1 million from the County already, we’ve basically been
guaranteed, based on when the final price, of half the cost from Green Acres, and just this very night, just this
very night, right before we got here, three of us, Ms. Murphy, Mr. Guenther and I were at the presentation, they
put us on number one, at the County Library, to hear our case, to ask for an additional $500,000, and that would
come off of our contribution for $800,000. So, to save 160 some odd acres of prime land, the most it could cost
us is $800,000 and it may be as low as $250,000, and we’ll hope for the best. As usual, it was a superb
presentation and with the reputation of the Morris Conservatory, the reputation that Ms. Murphy has down
there, and seeing the public support and the public officials there, which they request, it shows that, you know,
we have a very good chance. So, hopefully, we’ll know about a week after the general election, usually that’s
when they issue it. The Freeholders made that decision when they first set up the trust to insure that it was not
used as a political football to try to get points for the election. So, nothing is released until after the election, but
hopefully we’ll know in a couple of weeks. So, with that, is there any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: And we pass by a margin of one. Ordinance #32-2004 is passed on second reading and I
hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as
required by law. As a side note, we have a contract on the property, we expect to close before the end of the
year.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING – (2nd Reading November 23, 2004)

President Rattner: Okay, now we’ll go to Ordinances for first reading. The Public Hearing on all of these,
and it will be also in each one of the readings, will be November 23rd, 2004, right here. With that, first item on
the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #38-2004, entitled:

Ord. #38-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Revision to the Code of the
Township of Mount Olive, Part II General Legislation Chapter 76, Alarm Systems § 76
Alarm Systems.

Mr. Guenther: I move that Ordinance #38-2004 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a
meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mount Olive, New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance,
and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the
requirements of law.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #39-2004, entitled:

Ord. #39-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing the Quarterly Sewer Usage
Fee for the Wyndham Pointe Sanitary Sewer System.

Mr. Greenbaum: I move that Ordinance #39-2004 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a
meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mount Olive, New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance,
and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the
requirements of law.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #40-2004, entitled:

Ord. #40-2004 An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement Chapter 400 Entitled “Land Use”, Section 99.1 Entitled “Docks, Piers and Boathouses” [Ordinance No. 5-98]

Mr. Greenbaum: I move that Ordinance #40-2004 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a
meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mount Olive, New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance,
and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the
requirements of law.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #41-2004, entitled:

Ord. #41-2004 An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement an Ordinance Entitled “An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement an Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Implementing the Emergency Services Volunteer Length of Service Award Program” (Ord #27-2001).

Mr. Buell: I move that Ordinance #41-2004 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a
meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mount Olive, New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance,
and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the
requirements of law.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #42-2004, entitled:

Ord. #42-2004 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive for Public Contracting (“Pay-to-Play”) Reform.

Ms. Labow: I move that Ordinance #42-2004 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a
meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mount Olive, New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance,
and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the
requirements of law.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: This was a format that was suggested to us by the League of Municipalities, correct?

Ms. Labow: No.

Mr. Dorsey: I don’t know who suggested it….Jim Buell.

Ms. Labow: Jim Buell…we did it…we got it from Mine Hill.

President Rattner: Right now, you know, and based on…opinion, is right now the State statute does not allow it. I think it went through one of the houses, just in the last couple of days.

Ms. Labow: Oh, did it?

Mr. Dorsey: The State statute has not been adopted.

President Rattner: But the State statute hasn’t been adopted to allow us to limit.

Mr. Guenther: Well, the only comment that I would make is I just received a notification from an Electoral Control Commission that, in fact, in January the reported amount is being reduced to $300,000 from $400,000 and I feel probably you should….

Mr. Dorsey: No that has nothing, no that has nothing to do with how much one can give, that just has to do with the amount that has to be reported.

Mr. Guenther: No, I understand that, but I think that this should still conform with that, it’s my opinion.

Ms. Labow: But if the State….so when is the State going to vote? When is it coming back up for them?

Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think that’s something anybody can accurately predict. There are a lot of pulling and tugging in that kind of thing.

Ms. Labow: So, if we pass this, and they change…and…we could still do this, even though the State doesn’t, right, because unless they specifically say you can’t.

Mr. Dorsey: Listen, I love this Ordinance. I think you should move it and if the statute changes, then you do what you have to do.

Mr. Labow: Okay.

President Rattner: The only thing is, I still have a problem that it limits one area, unions can still give a thousand, five thousand, which they’ve done in the past, you know, big amounts, a lot of other big money can be coming in, and if we do it, we should just make it consistent across any outside interests, because if we’re bidding or we have different projects going on, the unions have that type of, you know, influence too, and then they’re trying to bias, you know, I guess that’s a bad word, you wouldn’t say bias, they want to contribute to the cause, but anyway, Mr. Mayor, you wanted to say something on that?

Mayor De La Roche: Yes, I wanted to ask a question. Mr. Dorsey, I’m trying to recall, when you wrote the letter, you indicated you wanted to except out the County organizations?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes, because I don’t think the municipality has any control over that, I think the County….has control over contributions to its candidates and to its municipal committees, but I don’t think the township should attempt to control contributions to the County organization.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, it’s a matter of controlling the money that’s received by candidates as opposed to where it’s coming from, right? So, they would have control over it, so I don’t see any reason to except out the County organizations, I think they should be restricted also. That’s just my personal opinion.

President Rattner: Mayor, you know, as a practical matter on something like that, we know that there’s a lot of in kind, the County organization puts out flyers, newspapers, press releases, different things that include each individual town, we’d be excluded, because they would exceed doing that for the information, not much different than what happened in the last election with Governor McGreevey’s campaign, what they did at localize and they put the candidates on at the end, and we’re starting to say about operations of the party. I don’t have a real big problem with it, because I don’t know what Morris County Republican Party that way has done for us here, but that, you know, we have to….you know, that one, you should think out, but, you know, you’re right, it’s just money coming is money coming in. Mr. Greenbaum.

Mr. Greenbaum: Well, you know, I don’t know how you limit who can give you money, unless you’re going to say nobody can give you money more than $400, you can’t accept it, and then, I don’t even know that that resolves the issue, I think the real concern here is that whoever is doing business with the township shouldn’t be footing the bill of the elections.

Ms. Labow: That’s correct.

Mr. Buell: That’s correct.

Mr. Greenbaum: That’s what everyone is trying to get to, and I think we’re all in agreement with that and it’s just a question of getting the right wording.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, the question I…the reason I raised the issue is because I think the idea is to limit money coming into candidates from special interest of any type, and I feel that the County organizations are also special interest, since they’re interested in getting certain people elected over other people. So, there is special interest, just like anybody else.

President Rattner: But isn’t that what a party is, but that…okay, but this is not in here. Do we want to at least move this and have more time to discuss it and we can see if this at least is a start? I mean, I don’t have a problem with the goals of this, but, in fact, I’m probably in agreement more with the Mayor now on this, because just saying about limit and keep everybody on an even playing field, and that’s really what I think he’s saying.

Mayor De La Roche: Yes.

President Rattner: Okay. Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #43-2004, entitled:

Ord. #43-2004 Bond Ordinance Providing for the Purchase of Breathing Apparatus for the Budd Lake Fire Department in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating $40,000 Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $38,000 Bonds or Notes of the Township to Finance Part of the Cost Thereof.

Mr. Mund: I move that Ordinance #43-2004 be introduced by title, and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Mr. Mund, it will take you a couple of meetings, and we’ve all gone through the same thing. He’ll get the hang of it, right Ms. Labow?

Mr. Mund: One of these days.

President Rattner: No, you will. Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: The next item on the agenda for first reading is Ordinance #44-2004, entitled:

Ord. #44-2004 Ordinance Appropriating $376,530 for Turkey Brook Phase II Improvements in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey.

Mr. Guenther: I move that Ordinance #44-2004 be introduced by title, and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: And the final item for introduction is Ordinance #45-2004, entitled:

Ord. #45-2004 Ordinance Appropriating $100,000 for Roofing Work at the Baptist Church in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey.

Ms. Labow: I move that Ordinance #45-2004 be introduced by title, and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on November 23rd, 2004 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law.

Mr. Buell: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA

Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Endorse Acquisition of Development Rights - Frank & Geraldine Desiderio (Morris County Farmland Preservation)

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Declaring an Emergency in Connection with the Township’s Salary Ordinances, i.e., Ordinance #26-2004 and Ordinance #30-2004 for the Year 2004.

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Mayor and the Council President to Sign/Execute a Cross Acceptance Questionnaire for the Township of Mount Olive as Requested by the Morris County Planning Board.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement (Final Major Subdivision) Between the Township and Rand Homes at Rockaway, LLC for Woodland Estates.

6. Governing Body Resolution – Grant Agreement Between the Township of Mount Olive and the State of New Jersey by and for the Department of Environmental Protection, Grant Identifier WQ04-416 (Tier A Stormwater Management Plan)

7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive to Foreclose In Rem Certificates Held by the Township of Mount Olive (Ench Block 1300 Lot 18).

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Releasing the Performance Guarantees of Panera Bread/Fenwick Group.

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Relative to Bonding Submitted by the Kaplan Companies RE: Woodfield Sections 3A and 3B.

10. State of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection Green Acres Enabling Resolution (Open Space Planning Incentive Grant).

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Grant Contract with the Morris County Historic Trust.

12. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing Contract.

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Contract with Jersey Professional Management for Administrative Services.

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Mayor Richard De La Roche to Sign the TWA Form.

15. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Dedication by Rider for Donations – Improvements to Connector Road Located in the International Trade Center.

16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing Contract.

17. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Retention by Mayor Richard De La Roche of John McDonnell, Esq. of Washington Borough to Represent Him in Connection with an Action Referred to as Wilpert v. De La Roche, et al.

President Rattner: Okay, now we come to the Consent Agenda, these are things that we think are routine or we’ve already discussed them at Workshop. Does anybody have any of these resolutions, 2 through 17, they would like to take off Consent, at this time?

Mr. Guenther: 12, 13, 14, 16 and 17, just leaving 15 in.

President Rattner: Anybody else?

Mr. Greenbaum: Number 4.

President Rattner: Anybody else? Mr. Greenbaum, now you’ve got to figure out…..we’ve taken off….

Mr. Greenbaum: I think I’ve got it. I move for approval of resolutions number 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 15.

Ms. Labow: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Would anyone from the public like to comment on any of the consent resolutions?

Nelson Russell, Budd Lake: On consent resolution #6, it reads: The governing body of the Township of Mount Olive desires to further the public interest by obtaining a grant from the State of New Jersey in the amount of approximately $14,110 to fund the following project: There is no following project.

Mr. Greenbaum: It must be a typo in the resolution.

Mrs. Lashway: We already did a resolution and it was not in State format, so this is the State format resolution that was given to us.

Mr. Dorsey: Is this for the State….is this for the grant for the storm water management update?

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

Mr. Dorsey: It’s a grant application, authorization to submit a grant application for monies for updating our Ordinances, I think, in terms of the new storm water management regs.

Mr. Russell: Shouldn’t it be in the resolution, though?

Mr. Dorsey: This is a State format, this is what the State has given to the Clerk. We’ve already approved it in another format.

Mr. Russell: Okay.

President Rattner: Kathy, what exactly is the proper wording, because I see what it is and we should put in there exactly what we’re asking the grant for?

Mrs. Murphy: This is a grant for the Tier A Storm Water Management Plan, that Gene Buczynski had filed for and was awarded. There’s a format resolution that was sent.

President Rattner: Okay, so we’re amending it to say what….

Mrs. Lashway: To fund the following project: Tier A Storm Water Management Plan.

President Rattner: Can I get a motion?

Mr. Greenbaum: I’ll accept that amendment.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call….this is just on the amendment, we’re not voting on anything yet.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Thank you very much. Anybody else have any other questions or comments on resolutions? We’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Ask for Council comments, there shouldn’t be any. Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

RESOLUTIONS NON CONSENT

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Mayor and the Council President to Sign/Execute a Cross Acceptance Questionnaire for the Township of Mount Olive as Requested by the Morris County Planning Board.

President Rattner: Okay, now we come to non-consent resolutions, number 4, Mr. Guenther you want to move that one?

Mr. Guenther: I move for the passage of resolution number 4.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Okay, anybody from the public like to address us? Mr. Bonte.

Mr. Bonte: This resolution came up two weeks ago and I questioned the numbers that were in the document and was told that there was great urgency that this had to be submitted, and that we should let it go, and it was then agreed, at that meeting, that since Mr. Greenbaum would be at the Planning Board Meeting, this would be discussed there. I attended that Planning Board Meeting also, and we found numerous errors in the document, which Mr. McGroarty stated that he would correct. Mr. McGroarty also stated that there would be some type of cover letter explaining what the rationale was for what we would be submitting to the County, because, basically, it’s Mr. McGroarty’s opinion, and I believe the Planning Board’s opinion that we were not actually answering the document that the County requested, but that, instead, we were going to be forwarding the document to the County that reflected what we believed would be happening as a result of the Highlands Bill, and it did not necessarily represent the ordinances and the zoning laws that existed in the township today, which is what the County is asking for. I had, at that time, suggested to the Planning Board that maybe we should prepare the questionnaires…answers. One which reflected what we think is going to happen, and one which basically answered the mail. The decision was made to only send a document that represented what we thought was going to happen with an explanatory cover letter. Being such, and reading this resolution this evening, it appears that the document that Mr. McGroarty and Catherine Natafalusy are preparing is not complete, nor is the cover letter, and, therefore, I think it would be ill-conceived for the Council to authorize that this document be forwarded to the County without you seeing it, and without the public seeing and having an opportunity to comment on it. Are there any comments?

President Rattner: When we get to Council Comments, we’ll see what our Planning Board representative…because, I believe you were at the meeting?

Mr. Greenbaum: I was at the meeting.

President Rattner: Okay. First, I want to see if there was anybody else from the public that has a comment.

Mr. Bonte: In any event, I think this document is much too important to Mount Olive and could end up locking us into things that maybe we don’t want to be locked into, and I believe that prior to this Council authorizing release of the document, they should at least see the document. Mr. McGroarty did indicate, I believe, that although the perception was that this document had to be to the County by the end of October, I believe he stated that it really didn’t need to have to be there until November 30th. So, I would like to suggest that this matter be deferred to the next public meeting and that the Administration be advised that you want to see the numbers before you go ahead and pass on this resolution, thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you, Mr. Bonte. Anybody else from the public like to address the Council on this resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion and take Council comments.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

Mr. Greenbaum: I had this pulled from the Consent Resolutions Agenda because I wanted to hear Mr. Bonte’s comments, as I believe Mr. Bonte is an extremely knowledgeable individual and has brought many issues to the forefront in terms of this needed resolution. There was extensive discussion on the cross acceptance questionnaire and how to go about responding, based upon the questions which were raised at the Planning Board. In essence, this entire questionnaire was revised by Chuck so that it would properly reflect what is happening in Mount Olive. It’s the County’s obligation to provide whatever information is going to come from this cross acceptance plan to the State for planning purposes. This document, as currently revised, and I do believe that it’s in its final form and it’s signed by the Planning Board Chairman, Mr. Mania, accurately reflects a number of different issues that were not before the Council when it was originally here, and I agreed with Mr. Bonte, at the time, that it should be referred to the Planning Board since there wasn’t anyone up here who could explain the document itself adequately and there was extensive discussion at the Planning Board and revisions made pursuant to that discussion. I believe that this document is in final form, it does address the issues of importance that were raised, which were originally left out, such as the number of housing units which have been approved but not yet built, which was not included in the original document. The Planning Board passed on this unanimously, there is no reason to hold it up any further, and it should be adopted here tonight.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: I would just like to say, in the future, if we have something like this come forward, that it should go to the Planning Board before it comes to Council because, as we saw last Thursday night, there was extensive discussion and many many changes made, and I would like to avoid this situation in the future.

President Rattner: I want to clarify one thing, the Clerk advised me, from your understanding, when is it due in the County, at least from your instructions?

Mrs. Lashway: I don’t know what the deadline is, but Catherine Natafalusy is on vacation and she asked me to fax it to the County Planning Board first thing tomorrow morning.

President Rattner: Okay, just because of the convenience, not…..because we heard a different date, because I know that the County already gave us two extra months.

Mrs. Lashway: Well, I had mentioned to her that I thought there was an extension and she told me I needed to get it to the County tomorrow.

Mr. Greenbaum: It cannot be faxed to the County without a cover letter from Chuck indicating that the document was revised to reflect what will happen in Mount Olive in the future. I agree with Mr. Bonte, that submitting the document itself without an explanatory letter is not appropriate, and I have no problem in it being faxed tomorrow, but Chuck needs to prepare a letter on behalf of the township accordingly.

President Rattner: Did they get a copy of the one before it was revised? This is the first time the County is getting it, isn’t it?

Mr. Greenbaum: I don’t think that they got a copy, but in essence what has happened here is that the questionnaire itself has been changed by Mount Olive, so that we’re not answering exactly in the fashion because the questions, as posed, made no sense in light of the planning issues, which have occurred and will occur in the future in Mount Olive, and the letter needs to be attached to the front of this document indicating such.

President Rattner: Did anybody check with the County to insure that they’ll accept it, because they put together a real quick single document so they can put every town in there and have the questions answered on a consistent basis since they’re preparing one document.

Mr. Greenbaum: You know, the decision was made to prepare it in this particular fashion because the questions, as they were posed to Mount Olive, made no sense to answer in that fashion, so whether or not it’s accepted, or not accepted, it doesn’t really make a difference, because the information which would have been provided in the form that they asked for it in, wouldn’t have been beneficial to either the township, or the County, or to the State.

President Rattner: Okay, any other discussion?

Mr. Guenther: Yes, I had a question for Mr. Greenbaum. What are the areas that we inserted, where we changed? The items that are underlined? There are explanations in here that are underlined.

Mr. Greenbaum: There is more than that. With respect to question number 8, number of existing housing units, 9,311 plus 1,513, the 1,513 number represents the number of housing units which have been approved but have not yet been built. The majority of that number relates to Morris Chase. The remainder of that number relates to smaller developments within the township, such as Gen III or, I don’t know, I could give you a number of different examples. Also, attached are different charts which are not part of the original questionnaire which have been included, Table I, Table II, Table III, those are all….all of the tables that are included in here are new tables.

Ms. Labow: So, the only thing we are missing, is Mr. McGroarty’s letter.

Mr. Dorsey: Yes, okay.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Mund & Mr. Guenther said Yes, with
Mr. McGroarty’s letter.

President Rattner: The next item we have resolution number 12.

12. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing Contract.

16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing Contract.

Mr. Guenther: Let me lump 12 and 16 together. It’s just a request. If we have, you know, two particular resolutions stating use of a State Purchase Contract, if you could just put….when it’s put on the agenda, put a dash in there saying what company, which one it is. Number 12 was Avaya and 16 was Kyocera/Mita, so, I just…if we have several of them I would like to be able to identify them right off the bat, so…

Ms. Jenkins: You mean on the agenda, you want this listed.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, on the agenda, so I guess that’s probably…..

Mrs. Lashway: What if there are multiple companies on the resolution?

Mr. Dorsey: Then put them in the agenda.

Mr. Guenther: Then put multiple, that’s okay, just so, if it’s a single one, like why weren’t these two put together under one resolution?

Ms. Jenkins: Because they were done by different people.

Mr. Guenther: Okay.

Ms. Jenkins: Administration did one and I did one, at different times.

Mr. Guenther: That’s my comment on that.

Mr. Dorsey: You have to move them.

Mr. Guenther: Okay. So, I move for passage of resolutions number 12 and number 16.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Mr. Greenbaum.

Mr. Greenbaum: You didn’t ask for public discussion.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any public discussion on those two? This is 12 and 16. Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any Council comments? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Contract with Jersey Professional Management for Administrative Services.

President Rattner: Okay, resolution number 13, Mr. Greenbaum.

Mr. Greenbaum: I move for passage of resolution number 13.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to comment on resolution number 13? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Okay, Council comments.

Mr. Guenther: No, I just want….I can’t find the resolution now, where is it….does this state…what about the….okay, where is it covered that the fee that’s paid to New Jersey Management? Would that be part of this resolution, or not?

Mr. Casey: It is, if you look at the first section, the first “Now Therefore” has the fee.

Mr. Guenther: I’m sorry.

Mr. Casey: The first….the “Now Therefore” on page 2…..

Mr. Guenther: Oh, I don’t have page 2, Colleen, you only gave me page 1.

Ms. Labow: I’m sorry.

Mr. Guenther: I see it, okay, got it, alright, sorry.

President Rattner: Mr. Casey has fun here, but, you know, he has every expectation of being paid for his hard work. Any other discussion? Roll Call.

Mr. Buell: Just….the first paragraph says the period of time not to exceed 60 days, this number 2, down below says Robert Casey will be paid for 10 weeks.

Mr. Dorsey: It should say 60 days, it should be consistent between the two.

Mr. Buell: Yes, I think it should be consistent.

Mr. Dorsey: Right, Bob?

Mr. Casey: Yes, true.

Mr. Dorsey: So, instead of 10 weeks, we’ll just insert 60 days in both paragraphs.

Mr. Buell: Do we have to amend that?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes.

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

Mr. Buell: I make a motion to amend number 2 of page 2, to 60 days, instead of 10 weeks.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion on the amendment? Roll Call, on the amendment.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Oh, we still have to vote on the resolution. Roll Call, on the resolution.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously as amended

President Rattner: Resolution number 14, Ms. Labow.

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Mayor Richard De La Roche to Sign the TWA Form.

Ms. Labow: I move for adoption of resolution number 14.

Mr. Buell: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this item? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any Council comments?

Mr. Guenther: I just wanted to point out that this is the one for Woodland Estates, the water permit. I guess it’s a routine permit that has to be requested.

President Rattner: Any other discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Resolution number 17, Mr. Buell, would you move that one?

17. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Retention by Mayor Richard De La Roche of John McDonnell, Esq. of Washington Borough to Represent Him in Connection with an Action Referred to as Wilpert v. De La Roche, et al.

Mr. Buell: I move resolution number 17.

Ms. Labow: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Council Comments. Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Guenther & Mr. Greenbaum abstained

President Rattner: Resolution number 18, Mr. Buell.

18. Resolution for Renewal of Membership in the Morris County Municipal Joint Insurance Fund.

Mr. Buell: I move resolution number 18.

Ms. Labow: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on resolution #18? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any Council Comments? Mr. Casey.

Mr. Casey: I would like to note, for the record, a memo that was given out late this afternoon, indicating that the township did get a renewal quote from the Morris County JIF for 2005. Assuming that Council adopts the resolution renewing for the three years, the net increase to the township for the 2005 will be 6% and I note that, in reviewing the file, you were originally notified in August that they were looking at an average of 6.93%, so, obviously, the quote came in within the same ballpark that I believe they were looking at earlier. That renewal, I Mr. Casey(cont’d): am told, also includes the normal increases which accrue due to payroll increases. So, I think from that standpoint, the…..and I also note that the two other JIF’s that were contacted, both declined to quote the township.

President Rattner: Thank you very much. Any other comments from the Council? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Resolution number 19.

19. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Wilpert V. De La
Roche/James K. Pryor, Esq.

Ms. Labow: I move for adoption of resolution number 19.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Anybody from the public like to address the Council on this resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any Council comments? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Now, the final resolution we have is the reason why we went into closed session at the beginning of the meeting and this is a Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive in the Matter of William Ruggierio. The Clerk did provide copies, after we decided to go ahead with this. So, with that, Mr. Greenbaum, would you move the resolution?

Mr. Greenbaum: Is it resolution number 20?

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

Mr. Greenbaum: I move for adoption of resolution number 20.

Mrs. Lashway: You should read the title, because it’s not on the agenda.

20. A Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive in the Matter of William
Ruggierio versus the Township of Mount Olive.

President Rattner: Can I get a second?

Mrs. Labow: Second.

PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Would anybody from the public like to address the Council on this resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS

President Rattner: Any Council comments? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

MOTIONS

 

President Rattner: Okay, moving right along, next we have Motions. Mr. Buell, would you do the raffle application?

1. Approval of Raffle Application # 2055 for the Deerpath Montessori School and Amendment to Raffle Application #2052 & #2053 for the Independence Township Booster Club, Inc.

Mr. Buell: I move for approval of Raffle Application #2055 and Amendment to Raffle Application #2052 and 2053.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Ms. Labow, the Bill List.

2. Bill List

Ms. Labow: I would like to make a motion to approve the Bill List.

Mr. Buell: Second.

President Rattner: Any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Greenbaum voted No.

ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS

President Rattner: Administrative Matters?

Mr. Casey: We have nothing.

OLD BUSINESS

President Rattner: Old business, Mr. Greenbaum, you’re listed.

Status of Negotiations with Mt. Olive Child Care & Learning Center for use of Old Library

Mr. Greenbaum: Let me get there. Are you turning over the gavel to me, Steve, or are you going to keep the gavel?

President Rattner: Well, it depends on what you’re going to do.

Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to get a status of negotiations with Mount Olive Child Care in light of the resolution passed by Council several months ago.

Mr. Casey: I have for the Mayor and Council….the Council, the Mayor has a copy, a memo completed today on the disposal of the existing Library facility. It’s like three or four pages, so I would just as soon distribute it to you, we can read it. I would also like to suggest that it may be appropriate for the Council to establish a sub-committee of several members who can meet with the Administration on what’s in this memo, to see how we can go about moving forward on this subject.

Mr. Greenbaum: What does the summary of the memo say, Bob?

Mr. Casey: The summary of the memo looks at the question of the disposal of the Library from a long term planning concept and questions the validity from a public context of disposing of property on a long term basis. On this particular site, particularly given the pending restrictions being placed upon the township by the Highlands Bill, but there are more reasons given on that and I apologize for not getting this earlier. I met with the Day Care Center late this afternoon, and because of that, I did not want to put a memo out until I had a chance to talk over with them the probability of a lease arrangement. So, what I’m suggesting to you, I’ve talked over with the Mayor, that it may be appropriate…the best way to go about this, if Council wants to establish a committee that we can sit over the next week, or whatever, and discuss this and talk further about Mr. Casey(cont’d): how we can go about the issue of the disposal of that building, as well as the issue of the Day Care Center.

Mr. Greenbaum: Bob, I’ll take the memo under consideration, although I believe that this memo does not address the issues which were part of the resolution passed by this Township Council, which was to begin negotiations with Mount Olive Child Care for use of that building. The Administration has, to date, stonewalled on this particular issue. This is the fourth or fifth different attempt by the Administration to ignore the resolution of the Township Council. I believe that’s wholly inappropriate and if negotiations are not started by the next public meeting, I will take appropriate action to make sure that those negotiations do take place.

Mr. Casey: Well, if I may, let me respond to that.

Mr. Greenbaum: Go ahead.

Mr. Casey: The Council obviously has the authority to dispose of property in a legal manner, but I am suggesting in this resolution, is that you look at this site, and for the reasons sited in there, I’m not sure that the actual disposal of the property is in the best long term public interest. Now, if the Council should disagree with that, you obviously have the right to adopt an ordinance to dispose of the property, assuming you overcome some of the obstacles that I note in there, from a legal standpoint, that may impinge upon that disposal. You have the right to proceed, if you wish. I’m willing to sit and, as I talked to the Day Care Center today, there may be a way of resolving the concern that the Administration has, over the long term implications of disposing of that, and the immediate needs of the Day Care Center. I’m not saying that they’re in conflict, but the question I’m raising in that memo, from a public use standpoint, it is difficult to project what the needs of this town will be ten years from now, and my concern would be, as I noted in that memo, that if you take a prime piece of property, which is adjacent to your other public facilities, and you remove that from the future inventory of municipal re-use, it may not be in your best long term interest, especially since the Highlands may prevent you from building additional facilities. What I am suggesting in here that, rather than the actual disposition of that, through a long term lease or through sale, that it may be more appropriate to do a short term lease with options for renewal that returns to the Mayor and Council the authority to control the use of this structure in future years, and I think that’s the issue that you’re looking at is we don’t know what’s going to happen in ten years, we don’t know the impact of the Highlands Bill is going to be upon the capability of this governing body or future governing bodies to control use of its facilities, and I’m just suggesting that you may not want to preclude yourself from that option.

Mr. Guenther: I would agree that I think this merits more discussion. I understand your point, Rob, about, you know, we wanted them to proceed negotiating, but I think, and I haven’t had a chance to read it, I just skimmed through. I think the points that Mr. Casey makes have some validity and I would be willing to volunteer for a committee…to serve on that committee to discuss that.

Ms. Labow: I just want to make sure that I understand…I did, myself, also just breezed through this. Mr. Casey are you…if I understand it correctly, I’m in agreement with it, are you suggesting that perhaps a reclaimer clause attached to an agreement we would have with the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center, because of the fact that right now, at this present time, first of all, we do not have the funds to bring that building up…there’s a lot of work that needs to be done on that building, we do have the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center that does have an immediate need for it. So, what I’m taking is what you’re saying is that if we move forward and have them figure out a lease agreement for right now, with a reclaimer policy, then in the future, if we need it for a township function, that they are….the understanding that we would give them a certain amount of time, then we would take the building back?

Mr. Casey: I think that’s the minimum that you should do, and that’s following in the same vane that I cite in the memo that Roxbury did in the ‘70’s with the Gray Building. My concern is that, because of the Highlands Bill, you’ve lost the capability of controlling your destiny and I would be concerned that if, in fact, you preclude yourself from moving in this direction. I also think that the Council and the Administration should do some serious talking about what’s going to happen down at the old building in Flanders, because I think, from a community standpoint, you should be concerned about the disposal of that building.

Ms. Labow: Well, that building is the Board of Ed’s.

Mr. Casey: It is the Board of Ed’s, but the re-use of that building, because of your zoning and other community interest, is something you should be concerned with, to make sure that, in fact, it is not used in a manner which is detrimental to that immediate neighborhood.

Ms. Labow: So, you’re not suggesting, at this time, to leave this building vacant, to deteriorate.

Mr. Casey: No, I’m suggesting that the building be used, not by the Day Care Center, by some other agency, on a short term basis. I just think that you need to preserve your future options by…I’ve always preached to all governing bodies is, maintain as many options as possible in the future, because having been in this business since the mid-sixties, things change, and you have no control over it. Municipal government, unfortunately, is the bottom of the pecking order, change comes to the top and you have to implement it, and that’s all I’m saying is make sure that you do something to preserve that right.

Ms. Labow: And we do have the unknown of the Highlands Act. I would also be willing to be on a committee.
Mr. Greenbaum: Well, we can certainly set up a committee, but I have several comments to Mr. Casey, and your concerns certainly are noted, and they are concerns which were raised long before you took the job here. These were the same arguments that were made by the Administration prior to your employment with the township. Let me just say this, Mr. Casey, Council did not direct the Administration in terms of what type of lease to enter into, what the terms of the lease should be in terms of length of time, or what the rental amount should be, other than fair market value, and the bottom line is that if you feel, and the Administration feels, that this building should not be tied up for a long period of time and can reach a decision with Mount Olive Child Care consistent with both the Administration’s concerns and Council’s direction, then that’s the type of negotiation which should be taking place. Not to come back week after week after week after week with the same tired arguments. Let’s get on with the job at hand, let’s negotiate the lease with both the Administration’s concerns and Council’s concerns in mind. I don’t think that you could have been given any more clearer marching orders than to say do what you believe is right in connection with Council’s concerns, and if you want to set up a committee, I have no problem with that, and obviously Bernie and Colleen have volunteered to enter into those negotiations, on behalf of the township, with the Administration, that’s fine, but let’s get on with the business at hand. I would like to know when this committee is going to meet and when negotiations are going to start, in earnest, with Mount Olive Child Care, consistent with your concerns. I think that’s all that I’m asking for.

Mr. Guenther: Just a correction…or a question, actually, to Mr. Casey. I mean, this committee that you have in mind is strictly one of going through the various options and looking at the possibilities. It’s not meant to be a negotiating committee, correct?

Mr. Casey: No, I’m looking at reaching a consensus with the governing body as to what the governing body feels comfortable with, on what a lease arrangement would be, before we move forward with anything with the Day Care Center. Obviously, I don’t think the Administration…we may be going forward in one direction and getting people involved and misled, if we’re not on the same page.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, alright. So, I mean, I would not want to be part of a negotiating committee, I want to make that clear.

Ms. Labow: This is strictly for setting up the lease agreement.

Mr. Casey: Setting up the…at least get an understanding as how we feel the lease should go and what we should look to see in it, and I’m not necessarily saying….I’ll get back to your point, the building should not be left vacant. I know that there’s concern that the town has as to what happened with the old casino, okay, so even if it doesn’t…you know, yes, an agency should go in there so the building is viably kept warm, etc., all I’m saying is make sure you can reclaim it.

Mr. Greenbaum: Anyone else on this issue? Can we have this meeting prior to the next public meeting, which would be some time in the middle of November. Can we set this up so that we can move forward with the negotiating process?

Ms. Labow: Bob, do you know anyone?

Mr. Casey: Yes, we’ll talk after the meeting.

Mrs. Lashway: The next meeting is November 9th.

Ms. Labow: November 9th, and then we have the League of Municipalities after that, so…

Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to get a report back, we’ll put it on the agenda under Old Business for November 9th please, thank you.

Mr. Guenther: Bring the exiled back.

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes. Any other Old Business?

Ms. Labow: Yes, I have old business. Actually, on behalf of Gene Buczynski, I’m acting as his liaison. We had a meeting last night with the residents of Sunset Drive, concerning the project…the grant that we received for paving that road and putting in a sidewalk. We had several residents show up and also took the time to….which I want to thank Mr. Casey for handing this to me earlier this evening, the residents…they took each address on the street, everybody signed in opposition to the sidewalk. Only two people did not sign. Last night the determination was made that there will not be a sidewalk going in after all, and Gene Buczynski is going to be notifying the State, as far as an adjustment, for the removal of the sidewalk from the plan, and met with…you know, that’s what the residents wanted, they talked about curb and they talked about the road issue, how high up it would be, the grading, so-on so-forth, they also discussed, when that project was done, what they would do for the placement of the speed tables, because where the one was put in place is not really good at all, because it was put right by a storm drain, and the residents are concerned about freezing and ice problems in the future. Mr. Casey brought up a very good point to the one gentleman on the very end, his home is, if you’re going down towards the schools, his home is on the right, we had asked to continue the sidewalk around from Pershing Estates, so the kids would be walking towards the school, he said he was not in favor of that in the end, the sidewalk part of that upgrade to the street was eliminated. The other concern was that some of the residents, they didn’t want to lose their shrubs, they didn’t want to lose their trees. One resident would have not have been able to use their driveway anymore, so…that’s how it worked out in the end.

President Rattner: Okay, I just wanted to bring up a few things. Eight years ago, when we were planning Turkey Brook, people were up in arms about cutting down the trees and everything else, and everybody but one resident said, because of the safety of their children getting to school, they wanted sidewalks. More than that, talking with the School Board, by putting sidewalks there, especially if there is any future growth, we could eliminate three or four bus routes every day. We’re talking about major stuff and trying to interconnect, which is in our zoning, to put in sidewalks. We’re now saying that one part of town is now going to be completely exempt, because they didn’t want it, because we require sidewalks on any new construction. So, we’re saying now that people who live 300 or 400 feet away from the school still have to be bused, at a cost of…it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mr. Mund could probably talk to that. That was part of the traffic and circulation master plan we were looking at, you know, Pershing Estates has sidewalks. We were also…we don’t know what’s going to happen with Morris Chase, you know, that’s 400 units, that any of the kids that went there, if they had sidewalks, they would not need busing, now you would. Did we look at those implications, because that was the reasoning behind it, not just because we were trying to do something or force something on the people.

Ms. Labow: Right, what they did, they decided that the residents said that was not a concern of theirs, that they didn’t want to have to pay for the upkeep and the maintenance of the sidewalks.

President Rattner: So, even if it cost us, over ten years, another million dollars…I’m serious…the numbers are that big….that that place, but every place else….you know, because they didn’t want it, we force everybody else, so….this could….

Ms. Labow: They did not discuss that part of it at all, the residents. A couple of the residents I did speak to, and they didn’t feel they needed the sidewalks, but I would suggest, before Gene goes before the State to eliminate that, that perhaps we should…..

President Rattner: I’m just looking to see what the master plan and what the circulation, that’s what…the bicycle and everything else, I mean, the County has done different things, different plans have been in, in the works, it was just a lack of money, that’s why we went for the sidewalk. I’m just wondering that if we went, and we now assured the people that we’re not going to do it, when it was more of a policy from a lot of different organizations or departments in town, why it was done. The big thing, just like we put the sidewalks in from Kings Village, that was a big savings, when we made sure, when we built the Middle School, that the sidewalks would be continued, regardless who paid for it, because without the sidewalks, we would have to bus the people from the apartments. That’s consistent with what our plan is going to……

Ms. Labow: Well, this was an informal meeting through the residents to let them know what the plans were, whether it was told to them in the beginning, why there was a…why the sidewalks were being proposed to begin with, I don’t think anybody actually knew. I would suggest, before Gene goes to the State, that we send a letter to them…we understand that they’re opposed to the sidewalks, but keep in mind about the possible savings.

President Rattner: Okay, but I remember walking down there, on that side of the street, where Turkey Brook is, they were saying about how traffic and how the kids are not going to be able to go there.

Ms. Labow: Well, it wasn’t going to go on Turkey Brook.

President Rattner: What?

Ms. Labow: The sidewalks were not going to go on the Turkey Brook side, they were going to go on the Pershing Estate side.

President Rattner: Okay, well, those were the people and they were willing to put on that side.

Ms. Labow: The other people were actually…the other side, the Turkey Brook side were actually the people who were more willing to have sidewalks….

President Rattner: I know, I talked to them…they’re still there.

Ms. Labow: Right, but, in engineering, the other side of the street, is where the sidewalks would go because of telephone polls, so-on so-forth, the other side of the street was where the engineers decided they were going to put the sidewalk.

President Rattner: Well, maybe that was one of the problems. They were the people who said that they would…I’m serious, I talked to everybody, it must have been ’95 / ’96.

Ms. Labow: I talked to them and you are absolutely right, the people on the Turkey Brook side were the ones who would prefer to have the sidewalk, the people on the other side didn’t want sidewalks, but because of telephone polls, so-on so-forth, it was less intrusive to put them….and less costly, to put the sidewalks on the non-telephone poll side.

President Rattner: And so, instead of putting it there, now we’re just not going to do it and maybe have that kind of expense and we were talking about it as a safety for all the people that go up to the school and the other entrances that we’re going to have into Turkey Brook.

Ms. Labow: So, before Gene goes to the State, I think that, I mean, nobody can make a decision unless they start meeting with the residents, and this is what the residents wanted, but the residents were going on the cost factor of how much it was going to cost them to maintain those sidewalks and what they were going to lose on their property. Now on the side of the coin, the other side of the street, they don’t know how much they would have lost, they may have decided the same way, I don’t know, but I think we should perhaps get a little more information and meet with them again before Gene sends a letter to the State eliminating that part of the grant.

Mr. Guenther: Well, first of all, it’s not their property, it’s a right of way.

Ms. Labow: Exactly, that’s what Gene said, too.

Mr. Guenther: So, I mean, this is, you know, people assume it’s their property because they’re taking care of it, so…are you saying, Steve, that the genesis of this project was when, several years ago, there were…it seemed to be the people on Sunset wanted the sidewalks, is that right?

President Rattner: The people, yes.

Mr. Guenther: Or was the impulse that it come from the school?

President Rattner: Turkey Brook.

Mr. Guenther: What do you mean, Turkey Brook? What’s that got to do with it?

President Rattner: When we were planning Turkey Brook, the people started coming down complaining that we were going to put it in their backyard, they were going to have additional traffic and it was already a bad street and they wanted someplace safe for their kids to be able to walk up to the school, and so they said that they were willing to put sidewalks on their side of the street and I think, Colleen, for people that are there, still have people that are still willing to do that. We’re also looking, because in past years, I was looking at trying to reduce costs, and whether it be the School Board, because you know that the School Board, I don’t know what it is now, but a few years ago, 10% of their total budget was just transportation, and we were transporting kids on President Rattner(cont’d): buses for maybe a distance of 500 to 600 feet, which makes no sense at all, except that our roads are that dangerous without having a dedicated place to walk. Then you look at the place in Madison Avenue and those people, if they can come across, and then we were planning 400 houses down there and most of those kids would go to that school.

Mr. Guenther: Well, wait a minute, this sidewalk, the way it was planned, it would not alleviate that problem, because it wasn’t extended far enough to the school property that would permit the people to walk.

Ms. Labow: To the school…that’s what I was just going to say.

President Rattner: This was because we didn’t have the money and we’re just trying to get the different sections as we could get the money. We didn’t do it eight years ago, just like we didn’t do other ones.

Ms. Labow: And the one thing the residents of Sunset Drive brought up is the fact that they checked with the School Board specifically, a couple of people had gone off, Lee was on this Board of Ed at that time, and the School Board assured them they had absolutely no plans of putting sidewalks from the end of Sunset all the way to the school, therefore, even if the kids got as far the entrance to the school, they still wouldn’t have been able to walk the rest of the way.

President Rattner: I talked to different people in past years, I don’t remember, you know, at different times, and they were talking about if there is a big cost savings, because the cost savings from the…on Wolf Road was very very large and with the budget constraints and courtesy busing, you know, being eliminated, we have to give a set fee. I’m not saying they’re eliminating that, but that was something that we decided. The Council had already voted on, we have to make sure what we…before we undo something or give the people the indication we’re going to undo it. We heard their comments, but we have to look at what we’re trying to solve in the whole neighborhood.

Ms. Labow: This was recently, just recent. I’d have to say, just being…I’ve been on that street several times, to be honest with you, and whether there were sidewalks on there or not, with the way the traffic comes down that street, I wouldn’t let my child walk, I would insist that my child be picked up by the bus or I would drive them. So, I would have to go along with….these are the people who live there day in and day out, they discussed it several times and it would have been nice, but I still don’t…I’d be afraid to let my child walk down that street.

Mr. Guenther: What about the…..well, the problem with that road is that it was originally not designed to handle sidewalks, I mean, it’s not wide enough as it is, and I can understand their concern that it’s sort of infringing on their property and….

Ms. Labow: And then they’re going to take a couple more feet out of it, and…they thought about it long and hard and this is what their decision….

Mr. Greenbaum: Sidewalks are one of those issues that you either love them or you hate them, and generally if they’re on your property, you hate them, and that’s the way it always is.

President Rattner: I know.

Mr. Greenbaum: I’m not inclined to move forward with the sidewalks in that area.

Ms. Labow: I would say it was a very very nice meeting overall. It was a good thing the residents had all gotten together, the Administration, I would assume, had notified them to come, I believe.

Mr. Casey: There was a letter sent out to everybody there.

Mr. Guenther: Well, that had been at my insistence, because at one meeting of the concerned citizens group that came and said that…or one of them had actually sent me an e-mail and said well, who ever decided on these sidewalks, I don’t know anything about them and I’m opposed to them, and then I suggested to the Administration to please inform….to have some sort of a meeting with them to explain why…how this all happened and have everybody on the same page.

Ms. Labow: I do want to….I just have two more things about it, last night was a very very nice meeting, it was nice to see the whole community together. Mr. Casey was very gracious, he went and got the plans for the berm that’s going in there, and a lot of the residents who had not seen the plans before, were able to ask questions and that was a very good thing. I think that the meeting ended on a very nice feeling, didn’t you, Mr. Casey?

Mr. Casey: We didn’t get stoned.

Ms. Labow: No, that’s right, we didn’t….but the one thing I do want to…..

Mr. Greenbaum: What do you mean by that, Bob?

Mr. Casey: Any way you want to take it.

Ms. Labow: Rocks….but the one thing I do want to relay, and I want to give this to the Administration, I found…one of the residents had said to me, she had called me, she was very very upset, she said one time some people were out on the road and they were doing some work and she called up the township to find out what was going on….and this was….what they….in the end, what it was, they were surveying the street and, you know, getting ready for the plans that Gene Buczynski was drawing up for that, and so she called the Town Hall, she got bounced around to three or four different departments, finally somebody sent her to the Water Department and they said, well, you don’t have public water, then why are you calling us, and she said I just want to know why these guys are out on the street, and she told me that the response that she received from whomever she spoke to at the Town Hall was, well, if they have the vests on, they’re township employees, go out and ask them. Now, I’ve heard this complaint from residents from time to time, they call the Town Hall and they don’t get the information. I’ve tried it out myself, I’ve called the Town Hall and asked various questions and I do get bounced around and I just…I know it’s very very hard, but there should be…if something’s going on in the road, I think when somebody from the public calls the Town Hall, they should be able to get an answer. They should never be told go out and ask the workers what they’re doing. I don’t know how to solve that problem, I know we’re short staffed, but if there is just some way that we can work towards giving answers to the public when they call, I don’t know…I just find that very unacceptable, to be told to go out and ask the gentleman in the vest. That’s it.

President Rattner: Any other….

Mr. Buell: Steve, did we see if, instead of canceling the sidewalks, we could move the sidewalk portion of this up towards the school and finish that end of that…completing the sidewalk in front of the people’s residents, can we move it up to the other end up by the football field?

President Rattner: Well, what’s that going to solve?

Ms. Labow: That’s Board of Ed property.

Mr. Buell: At least it gets at that end….

President Rattner: You know, one of the concerns I have is, you know, along Route 46, sometimes we require sidewalks, sometimes we didn’t, and we had to go out and we put in the sidewalks. Is that what we’re going to do again? If we have the grant and, as I said, it was looking different on Kings Court…you’re talking about….I mean, the School Board right now, saying under the new rate, because they don’t know how they’re going to balance the budget, they’re probably going to increase class size, and with the 3 1/2% cap and things like that, your less than two miles on elementary school…to the school, there is no State funding for transportation, that’s all eaten, and with the laws that the bus with 22 miles on it, ten years, has to be taken out of service. You know, it’s becoming very very expensive and a few years ago, last time the budget went down, 10% of the school budget was just transportation costs and that’s a very large number, and we just have to make sure that we’re not doing that, where we turn it down now, where we have the money to do it, and then three or four years down the road, we have to do something. That’s all I’m really concerned about, I mean, it doesn’t affect me either way, but it was something that was thought out, and it was moved over to the other side for convenience, maybe that was our problem.

Ms. Labow: Yes. I have a question on the other direction…we should be able to maybe think of this….often we’ve talked about having sidewalks put along Flanders Road, for people walking along Flanders Road to get to Turkey Brook Park…can we move the location of the sidewalk?

President Rattner: No, this grant was specific for a special need, you know, we had to put it in.

Ms. Labow: Just for that street only? I mean, it would still be a need, just around the corner?

President Rattner: We have a lot of needs, but if you don’t have sidewalks that connect with each other, you know, you can cause more problems, and then you have more complaints. We had that with the Senior Center, President Rattner(cont’d): where they had a stretch where they didn’t have a sidewalk and people saying that they couldn’t walk, you know, that they had a sidewalk and then they had nothing, and we had to put sidewalks in.

Ms. Labow: Okay, thank you.

President Rattner: Anybody else? Was that under Old Business?

Ms. Labow: Yes, Old.

NEW BUSINESS

President Rattner: Okay, New Business.

Mr. Casey: If I might, I mean, was there a decision made by the governing bodies what you do on sidewalks?

President Rattner: No.

Mr. Casey: I mean, right now, Gene is under the impression that he’s going to contact the State and say delete the sidewalks….

President Rattner: We didn’t take any action.

Ms. Labow: No, we didn’t take any action, so what’s the next step that we go? We have to….

President Rattner: We have to see, you have different ideas about what the options are, unless the Council wants to put it on for the next agenda, or ask them exactly what the situations are, even get input from the school….

Ms. Labow: Well, we need to, because we have to….because you can’t just call and….

President Rattner: Oh, sure we can, they’ll take the money back, I’m sure, gladly, but then we couldn’t get it back.

Ms. Labow: Well, yes, I know, but I think we, like Mr. Casey said, we do have to make it official, and the reasons being why, so could we put it on the agenda?

Mr. Buell: I would also like the School Board for their opinion, in some fashion.

President Rattner: Yes, well, that’s the definite of the thing…..well, then we should really look at all our sidewalks, because we know we’ve had that in some developments where, you know, our site standards….said sidewalks on both sides of the street, then come in and we don’t want……it’s not marketable, but we require sidewalks in any new sub-division, because sidewalks we look as public access and a necessity today.

Ms. Labow: Well, then I guess the governing…the legislative body needs to make a decision, are they going to put the sidewalks in regardless of the fact that the residents don’t want them?

President Rattner: Well, we have to look at what the whole need is, it’s no different than you have to put something, just like when the access road….you had that one lady who lived next door, there’s no doubt about it that she’s going to be directly effected, she’s had woods all her life, and everything else, but if it’s something that’s really needed and there’s no alternative, and it does serve a public good.

Ms. Labow: Okay, so we put this on for a workshop first, or we put it in….

President Rattner: We have to put it on for workshop, we discuss it and get exactly from Gene, exactly what our options are, if it can be moved, I mean, we’re making assumptions, we really don’t know.

Ms. Labow: Can what be moved?

President Rattner: Somebody had the idea of moving the sidewalks onto Flanders Road.

Ms. Labow: Oh, mine, yes. I thought you meant as far as removing it from the original plans, the cost of them. We have to act on that, right?

President Rattner: We have to act on what?

Ms. Labow: If Gene is going to the State, removing the sidewalk portion…..

President Rattner: We didn’t authorize him to do that.

Ms. Labow: That’s right, so we need to put that on the agenda, to discuss the whole thing.

President Rattner: That’s what we’re going to discuss, the whole thing, because we need to know from him, what the options are, if we can transfer the money. Your not just…..they’re not two different things. If you said that there may be sidewalks and we know we’ve had people ask about sidewalks on Flanders Road…..

Mr. Greenbaum: It’s just a misunderstanding, Steve. Put it on for the next agenda.

Ms. Labow: Yes, the next meeting.

Mr. Guenther: Well, the…

Mr. Greenbaum: Put it on for the next agenda and tell Gene not to do anything until we’ve discussed it further.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, but I know what Gene’s going to say, Gene’s going to say if you’re going to move it to another location, you’ve got to look at the amount of money to see where it fits and where the length of sidewalk matches this length of…I mean, it’s a whole bunch….

President Rattner: But we don’t even know if we’re allowed to do that, because this was specific to that area. This was a specific grant application for a specific need, I don’t know if we can transfer it, that’s the real problem.

Ms. Labow: We probably can, but it doesn’t hurt to find out instead of giving it up.

Mr. Greenbaum: Can we please put it on for the next workshop?

Mr. Guenther: Wait a minute, do we need a workshop to have Gene try to find out from the State whether it could be transferred?

Mr. Dorsey: That’s a different question.

President Rattner: We also want to know whether we’re just canceling it, we’re going to get information from the School Board, I mean, there’s a lot of information we’re going to get. Just to say, because we had the residents that it’s going to go in front, that they don’t like it, but if it’s a general….you know, it’s needed.

Mr. Casey: Well, we’ll get an answer as to whether it’s transferable or not, before your next meeting. Tell Gene he takes no action until the 9th, when we have a chance to look at that. I think the other question to be raised, Steve, you said can it go to the north side of the street? The only reason it is not…..not the north side, the….

President Rattner: Whatever….the other side.

Ms. Labow: The Turkey Brook side.

Mr. Casey: The Turkey Brook side of the street, the issue is there are, I believe, four utility polls in the way and the issue then would be whether, in fact, he can prep around it. We can bring that up and have….get a report from him, if that will help you.

Ms. Labow: Even still, you just see everybody said they didn’t want it, even on that side of the street.

President Rattner: I thought you said the people who live on that side of the street said okay, the people who weren’t going to be in front of the house, don’t want it in front of other people houses?

Ms. Labow: No, no, no, no, no, originally, the people on that side of the street were the ones that were in favor of it.
President Rattner: It doesn’t matter, we’ll talk about it in workshop.

Ms. Labow: Steve, you don’t listen. You didn’t listen to me.

President Rattner: Any New Business?

LEGAL MATTERS

President Rattner: Legal Matters.

Mr. Dorsey: None.

COUNCIL REPORTS

President Rattner: Council Reports.

Library Board Liaison Report

Ms. Labow: No, we meet next week….two weeks.

President Rattner: Do you know if they have an expectation when the building is going to be turned over yet? Was that discussed at any of the meetings?

Ms. Labow: They had a special meeting tonight, but I don’t think that was discussed.

Recreation Liaison Report

Mr. Mund: I received a very nice letter from Harvey Kessler, who’s the Chairman, along with all the minutes and actions for this last period of time that he sent me, and one of the results of the October 12th meeting, was a recommendation to the Council that they request that the Council grant Mount Olive Volleyball Association quasi-entity status, as with the other ten sports associated, and a resolution needs to be passed by the Township Council. I guess, MOBOT has completed the gift, quasi-entry application and provided the information. We supposedly have gotten this letter, but I didn’t know we did. So, I guess I’m going to give it to Lisa, so that everybody can get it, and we’ll discuss this at the workshop. I do read this stuff.

President Rattner: Yes, that’s really routine, I mean, if they pass, they have to have bylaws and everything else, there are certain requirements that JIF provides and is open to the township residents, and we provide them with insurance. Anything else, Mr. Mund? Thank you.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Guenther: There is a meeting on November 3rd.

Planning Board Report

Mr. Greenbaum: We had a meeting on October 21st, there were, I believe, two or three matters that were heard. I was only there part time, I had a fever and had to go home early, but there was nothing of any real significance. One application, which was up, was Reza Hashemi, related to his motel, but because of absences on the Board that evening and people who would not sit to hear that application, due to conflicts, there was no quorum to hear Mr. Hashemi’s application. That was adjourned. The next meeting is December 9, Seneca Hills Corporation, which is a preliminary major sub-division, waiver is up, and Michael Zacher, minor sub-division with variance. Application wise, in the pipeline, Alnaz Corporation, a minor sub-division, Michael Callaremi, preliminary and final site plan, Thomas Fox, preliminary and final site plan with variances, Joseph D’Egidio, minor sub-division with variance, and Seneca Highlands, preliminary major sub-division. I’m not familiar with any of the new applications at the present time.

Board of Adjustment Liaison Report

President Rattner: Mr. Perkins is not here, so we don’t have a Board of Adjustment Liaison Report.

Open Space Committee Report

Mr. Guenther: That meets November 8th.

President Rattner: And you made a presentation tonight.

Legislative Committee Report

Mr. Mund: Nothing on that one.

Pride Committee Liaison Report

Ms. Labow: I missed the meeting last week, because…well, actually, it started late, so I’ll get an update for that next week.

Board of Education Liaison Report

President Rattner: I attended last night’s meeting. A couple of different things, the School Board is starting to have some problems with the DEP, they’re starting to change some of the advice, including where they’re putting some of the buildings. They’ve asked for some redesigns…building redesigns, some of the things seem ludicrous, their excuse was, we know when we went over this with you in March and April, we didn’t realize that the regs changed, the storm water all changed in February, where they were okay then, they’re not okay now. I got kind of ticked immediately, so I was on the phone most of this morning setting up a meeting with the School Board, seeing what we can do with the DEP, some of our legislative people, to make sure that at least we could get something, because they’ve actually told the architects to start redesign. Even their field, the way that they have the design, the field…they’re saying the field has to be within outside the buffer, now, of the 300 foot buffer of the wetlands. One of the issues they have is a swale, or a ditch they dug in the back of the school to keep the water off the property that’s now part of Turkey Brook, they’re saying that’s a wetland, everything has to be within…away from that 300 feet, which eliminates most of the property over there, they use it they can have, I mean, some of that stuff, and that was actually dug 20 years ago, just to make sure water wouldn’t run off, any water would stay on the site. So, I don’t know where that’s going, that wasn’t a real good story. They did show an ABC Newsline taping of their on-line courses that they instituted this year, it’s not as easy, and you think the kids could just coast through it, it’s actually a lot more work, and you have to be self-pacing yourself, ABC…I guess it took about three and a half minutes on one of their nationwide news shows, so the school was very very proud of that, and they had two winners, again this year, of the Thomas Jefferson government award. This is a competition on government and Thomas Jefferson’s effect on it, at William Patterson College. What’s real interesting is that, in the last 20 years, of the forty winners, eighteen have been from Mount Olive. That is an extraordinary thing, and there’s a lot of competition for it, so I just wanted to make sure everybody knew and, obviously, the School Board is very proud of accomplishing that and of the students who did that. So, that’s it, but the architects do give their update every two weeks on where they’re going. They’re making changes as they go. They’re talking about things on water conservation, waterless urinals, that’s been going on now for two and half months, new technology, everything else is relatively mundane, and that’s my report.

Lake/Environment Issues Committee

President Rattner: Well, we introduced the ordinance tonight, nothing else has happened. The next cleanup is scheduled for the next couple of weeks, the semi-annual cleanup where we take the debris out of the lake. Hopefully, the dock ordinance will eliminate some of that.

Safety Committee Liaison

Mr. Guenther: That was…a report the last time, there has been no meetings since then.

PUBLIC PORTION

President Rattner: Okay, now we come to the final public portion, anybody from the public like to address the Council on any matter, now is the chance. Yes sir.

Nelson Russell, Budd Lake: Steve, you mentioned the ordinance for the…the dock ordinance. I picked up a typo on page 4 under F, paragraph 1, new commercial marinas, commercial repair facilities, or retain sales, probably should be retail sales.

President Rattner: Yes, we’ll make that correction for the public hearing, thank you. Anybody else? Mr. Bonte.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: Regarding the resolution for the Cross Acceptance Questionnaire, the reason I had brought up the issue earlier was, two weeks ago, the resolution did have attached to it, the documentation. Tonight’s resolution did not have attached any documentation, it merely referred to that the document was going to be prepared and when it was completed, would be forwarded to the County. Is there a reason why the information was not attached to the resolution this evening?

President Rattner: I would have to say it was probably an oversight.

Mr. Bonte: I might not have gotten up, and I would like to see that information, if I could, and finally, a couple of weeks ago, I had called into the Township offices, I don’t know what department I was connected to, because of a rather large tree that I had saw at the corner of Budd Lake Heights and Sand Shore Road that had fallen and was caught in another tree and was about ready to fall across the road, and I would like to just commend the Administration, and I hope it gets back to the proper department, because the next day, they were out and took care of that. So, you know, in spite of everything that goes on here, and Mount Olive is really too small of a town to be worrying about whether people are Democrats or Republicans and all the other issues that are now costing us a lot of money with various court cases, and we really need to look at what this is costing the taxpayer, but in spite of all of that, the township employees are accomplishing what needs to be accomplished on a daily basis, and for that, I certainly would like to commend them, and I’m sure all the township residents, and this was just one example of very prompt responsiveness to something that, you know, had it been ignored for weeks or months, possible might have, you know, turned into a problem. So I, you know, our town is working and….but this is what people see and read about in the newspapers, so, you know, we really need to, in the next few years, it’s the first opportunity we’ve had to have multi-party representation on the Council, which I think is good, and we need to convince the rest of the town that it’s good and move forward. Thanks.

Mayor De La Roche: Thank you Mr. Bonte.

President Rattner: Thank you very much Mr. Bonte. I think a lot of times, it gets overlooked that we have 160 - 170 employees who come in every day and do their job, and a lot of them go a lot further than they have to to satisfy the public. It’s good that they’re recognized every once in a while, so I thank you for that and I’m sure the Administration thanks you for that, too. Would anybody else like to address the Council at this time? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

COUNCIL COMMENTS

President Rattner: And come to final Council Comments. Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: None.

Ms. Labow: None.

Mr. Mund: I just want to reiterate what Rich just said about the employees being exceptional, and I would hope that all the employees would get their raises at a more opportune time than half to three quarters of the way through the year.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, I guess I should have brought this up under Old Business. Mr. Casey, your promise to give me an update as to what had transpired, I know there was a special request by Mrs. Murphy about an increase in her remuneration and I was wondering what the disposition of that was. I know in the salary ordinance that was passed, it was just a normal increase for her, I’m just wondering what the Administration’s disposition of her request was.

Mr. Casey: I saw that carried forward to the next meeting, didn’t I see it on some agenda or something that said it was carried forward?

Mrs. Lashway: No, the notes from the last meeting, when it was discussed, that the resolution was supposed to be presented. I was not at the meeting, Michelle was at the meeting, and the note that she wrote on the agenda, and we copied the agenda afterwards…..

Mr. Casey: The only reason I’m not prepared is that I was under the distinct impression it was time dated forward to the 9th, because I saw that somewhere written down someplace.

Mr. Guenther: It could very well be, I don’t recall.

Mr. Casey: So, we’ll have an answer for you by then.

Mr. Guenther: By the 9th, okay thank you. Now, I do have some additional comments. I want to congratulate Mr. Casey for the quick work that he did regarding the JIF and it’s, you know, just shows how township government can work if we have the proper Administrator. This brings me to my second point. I am appalled, as Mr. Bonte is, by all the litigation that’s been initiated and it’s sad to see that and I’m hoping that, since this is an interim appointment of Mr. Casey, that the Mayor has taken it to heart that, you know, he sees that with an efficient Administrator things move forward and they move forward quickly and they’re resolved in the proper manner, rather than the procrastinating manner the prior Administrator did, and we got ourselves into that pickle because of his inefficiency, and I hope that in his considerations of a new Administrator, he’ll take that into mind that, you know, I think the voters voted him in to run an efficient Administration, and he should name that kind of Administrator, one who is experienced and professional and will move the township forward. I think that’s the least he owes the citizens of the town, and we certainly look forward to that kind of appointment being put before us. Thank you.

Mr. Greenbaum: I have several and I would like to start by directing my comments at Mr. Bonte in a respectful way. Rich, you and I have had many spirited discussions and I think that we can appreciate each other’s positions, even when we don’t agree with each other, and there have been several comments tonight, which I don’t agree with you on, and I just wanted to respond to those. Just during the final public portion, you talked about Democrats versus Republicans and you know, from my perspective, and I can’t speak for anybody else that’s sitting up here, but I don’t believe that this is about Democrats or Republicans, and if that’s the sense that people are getting out there, that’s not what’s going on here, and I’m not going to go into the specifics, because I don’t think we need to get into that battle here and now, but that’s not what we’re talking about. As you can see, the Republicans and the Democrats on Council can work together and work together well. That’s not what the issue is, in my mind. With respect to the DPW Garage, I take great exception in terms of the comments you’ve made blaming Council. It’s easy to blame Council, we’re here once a week, we don’t have a staff. We have to take whatever information is given to us, that information is collected from the Administration. We don’t have the ability, in fact, we were prohibited from participating in that discussion, even though several of us, at the very onset of this Administration, requested to be involved in the DPW project. We were denied that request. I can tell you, I voted against the referendum for a variety of reasons and certainly public record. So, I’m sure that your comments were not necessarily directed at me, or anybody in particular, but the group of us. The bottom line is that I did not know that this building could not be built for $1.9 million until I got Joe DeMaria’s memo, I had no clue, none. Now you can fault me for not having the appropriate information and I don’t know what I should have done to have gotten it, hired my own architect, I certainly wasn’t getting the information from the Administration, I had to rely upon the Administration. Now, tonight I heard from the Mayor and from Bob Casey that they can build this building for $1.9 million and it’s going to be a 30,000 square foot building, and I hope to God that they’re right. And you know what, if we get a building that’s just a shell of a building and it can house the men and the equipment, well so be it for the township. We’ve then accomplished what we need to accomplish, we have the building, and it’s not a question of spending money, and wasted spending money, because it’s going to cost whatever it’s going to cost. If it costs $100 per square foot, that’s what it costs. If it costs $60 a square foot, that’s what it costs, and we will end up, hopefully, the project will be administered properly and we will get a building that we paid for. The problem here is the referendum. We haven’t spent the money, we went forward with the referendum because we got caught in a bind, a time bind, related to the Highlands Legislation. I fault the Administration for getting us into that bind, this is a project which has been on the books for a long time….

Mayor De La Roche: Years.

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes, years, yes years, but now we came up against the Highlands referendum, and it should have been something, it should have been a priority of this Administration, or not a priority of this Administration, one way or the other, from the onset of the Administration. So, we came down to the end, we didn’t know what kind of building we were building, we didn’t know how much it was going to cost, but yet we felt we had to move forward with a referendum because of the Highlands Legislation. It’s not the way to run a project, it’s not the way that this project is going to get run. This project is going to be ultimately, if passed by the voters, is going to be…there’s going to be an architect, and it’s going to be planned, and we’re going to know what size building, and we’re going to know exactly how much it’s going to cost as we go down the road, but for this referendum, nobody would have second guessed how we move forward with the project at the outset. It’s the fact that we put up this arbitrary number and it’s unfortunate, but that’s where we are, and I just thought it was unfair to really blame Council, because we’re not the ones who were responsible for putting together the numbers, and we did the best we could with the information which was given us.

President Rattner: I have no comments. Move for adjournment.

Mr. Guenther: So moved.

Mr. Greenbaum: Second.

All were in favor and the meeting was adjourned at 10:39 pm.

 

_______________________________________________
Steven W. Rattner, Council President

 

I, LISA M. LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on December 14, 2004.

 

______________________________________
Lisa M. Lashway, Township Clerk

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