Township Council Minutes
May 14, 2002
The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was
called to order at 7:30 pm by Council President Scapicchio
with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
MOMENT OF SILENCE
President Scapicchio: If everyone would just join us. At
these Public Meetings, we now do a moment of reflection of
the men and women fighting terrorism and defending the freedom
that we all enjoy.
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice
of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle
and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at
in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt.
Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting
ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Guenther, President Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Spino
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD
Russell Temper Jr., Flanders, NJ: First I would like to thank
you for letting me speak before you this evening. I am here
to give you my opinion of why the D.A.R.E program should be
continued because currently the Mayor thinks that it should
not be continued. I think this program is important because
it teaches students how to say no to anything that could harm
them intentionally and helps students to deal with bullies
and peer pressure. Also in an article that one of the mothers
gave me who signed the letter, said that Mt. Olive had 40
acts of violence, five acts of vandalism and ten acts of drug
use in the schools and six acts of weapons in schools for
violence. I feel very strongly about continuing d.a.r.e. that
I asked all the parents at Tinc Road School to sign a petition
to show their support and so far I have received over 270
petitions and I expect more to come in. I would like to present
these letters to you this evening and ask you to please reconsider
your decision about the
D.A.R.E program and find the funds to continue it.
President Scapicchio: Thank you. You can present those petitions
to the Clerk and she will enter them into the record and just
so that you know, the Mayor and this Council are certainly
in favor of keeping that D.A.R.E program and we assure you
that there are funds in the budget to continue that program.
Any one else from the public?
Lou Candura: I am here to respond to a letter that I received
from the Township on April 29, 2002. It says "Dear Lou
I have been advised that you are in contact with the Governor's
Office in an attempt to discuss the grants regarding the Teen
Center and Budd Lake beach improvements. I would appreciate
if you would provide me with an update of your activities
since the negotiations for these grants are at a crucial stage
and we are in a very delicate position. I would appreciate
your advising me of your intentions as I am concerned that
your intercessions may have a negative affect on the outcome.
These grants are very important to both the citizens and the
children of Mount Olive. By attempting to politicize the issue
for your own political gain, you will eventually eliminate
us from the process. I ask you to consider the consequences
on the above before you act in your capacity of a non-elected
official. There has been much time and effort expended by
many legislators to get back into the contention for these
awards. Working together we could do the best possible job,
not just for Lew Candura but the republican and democrat party
as well as all the people in Mount Olive". I am sorry
the Mayor is absent tonight because I am here to publicly
respond to this. The Governor is a friend of mine; I worked
with him very closely in five years. But when I saw the article
in the paper that they were frozen, I went to him to speak
about it. He said it is frozen. There is no money in the pot
in this legislative budget to get it back. Next year he would
consider it, that's were it was. It was not political; it
was something that I thought was in the best interest of Mt.
Olive to talk to a friend of mine about it. That's my response
to the Mayor.
President Scapicchio: Is that letter the you read Lou from
Mr. Candura: Yes.
President Scapicchio: Thank you. Anyone else from the public?
Seeing none, we will close the first portion of the public
comment period. That brings us to administrative matters.
ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS - Appointment to Open Space Committee
Ms. Spencer: We have an appointment that we would like to
make for Mike Saballa.
President Scapicchio: Does Council have to take any action
Ms. Spencer: Well we need to get sworn in as a member to
the Open Space Committee.
Mrs. Miller: He was at the meeting last night, but I don't
see him in the audience.
Ms. Spencer: I don't see him either.
President Scapicchio: Any other administrative matters at
Ms. Spencer: Just one other one, we do have a resolution
that is listed as non-consent, I received a call a couple
hours ago saying that we really do not have the ability at
this point to move forward on that and we would bring it back
in about three months.
Mr. Dorsey: I think I should tell you that yesterday morning
for two and a half hours we argued the appeal taken by Crown
Tower Estates as to the denial of the Planning Board. Mr.
Bonte and Mr. Tarn were at the Council table and we had as
our cheering section the Council President was there and Councilman
Greenbaum was there and six or seven other citizens from Mt.
Olive there to hear the argument. If we had the opportunity
to pick a Judge this would not have necessarily have been
the Judge we would have picked since he was the one that three
and half years ago said that Mt. Olive was not entitled to
a five acre zone and one wonders of course how that may affect
his thinking. It was a rough oral argument in the sense that
a lot of the hard questions were put to us because I suppose
it is fair to that the Planning Board was relatively supportive
of the proposal and then it fell apart. On the other hand,
Judge Stanton did turn rather emphatically to Councel for
Crown Tower and asked essentially were they prepared, or would
they agree to a remand for the obvious environmental issues
that are raised because that sub-division is proposed to be
sewered by individual septic systems on each and every lot
which Mr. Bonte and I absolutely agree is the standard in
the 21st century for approving sub-divisions. In any event,
in the end of the oral argument he said he needed more than
the usual time that it takes and we are going back 3:00 tomorrow
afternoon to hear his decision in connection with the math.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Mr. Dorsey. I know Rob and
I are going to try to be there at 3:00. Are you going to be
Mr. Dorsey: I have to be there.
President Scapicchio: Does he entertain anymore arguments
or he just gives his opinion?
Mr. Dorsey: You never know what he is going to do or not
President Scapicchio: Okay. Thank you.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS:
February 26, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs.
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino
March 5, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs.
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
May 7, 2002 CS Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs.
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino bsent: Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Rattner
Mr. Guenther moved for approval of the minutes and Mr. Greenbaum
seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Council discussion?
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Letters From Residents
1. Letter received May 1, 2002, from the Flanders Crossing
Homeowners Association regarding Water Restrictions.
2. E-mail received May 2, 2002, from Matt Purcell of Flanders
regarding Water Restrictions.
3. E-mail received May 2, 2002, from Betsy Mansueto of Flanders
regarding DARE Elimination.
4. Letter received May 8, 2002, from Debbie and Frank Forte
regarding DARE Program.
5. Letter received May 10, 2002, from Lori Mcmahon regarding
the High School Parking Problem.
Resolution, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities
6. Resolution received April 26, 2002, from the Borough of
West Paterson regarding Governor McGreevey to restore full
funding for Watershed Moratorium Offset Aid.
7. Three Ordinances (17, 18, & 19) received April 29,
2002, from the Township of Roxbury regarding Land Use.
8. Resolution received April 29, 2002, from the Township
of Randolph regarding Deer Management.
9. Resolution received April 29, 2002, from the Township
of Randolph regarding a Budget Shortfall.
10. Resolution received April 30, 2002, from the Town of
Dover urging the Governor not to withdraw or reduce funds
from the Emergency Medical Technician Fund Except as it relates
to covering the cost of EMT Training.
11. Resolution received May 1, 2002, from the Township of
Randolph regarding the State of New Jersey Budget and the
Funding of the Historical Commission and Trust.
12. Resolution received May 3, 2002, from the Township of
Roxbury regarding a Resolution opposing Governor McGreevey's
Efforts to Cut Funding for Dam Restoration and Rehabilitation.
League of Municipalities
13. E-mail received May 4, 2002, from the New Jersey State
League of Municipalities regarding an Assembly Voting Session
and League Letter on Telecommunications.
14. E-mail received May 6, 2002, from the New Jersey State
League of Municipalities regarding bill S-1211 which seeks
to create a PFRS deferred option retirement program, otherwise
known as DROP.
15. Letter received May 7, 2002, from the New Jersey State
League of Municipalities regarding a League Seminar on Financial
DOT / DEP / Permit's / LOI's
16. Letter received May 2, 2002, from URS Corporation regarding
Notification of Intent to Establish Interim Classification
Exception Area and Well Restriction Area for Dynapac Manufacturing,
Correspondence from Legislative Representatives
17. Letter received May 2, 2002, from Senator R. Torricelli
regarding Resolution that was received on the Falun Gong Movement
and the Chinese Government.
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards
18. Letter received April 29, 2002, from the Mount Olive
Township Historical Society regarding Seward Mansion Sign.
19. Minutes received May 2, 2002, from the Morris County
Planning Board regarding the March 21, 2002 meeting.
20. Letter received May 8, 2002, from Morris County Community
Development regarding Morris County Community Development
and Home Program Federal Fiscal Years 2003, 2004, and 2005.
21. Notice received April 26, 2002, from NJ Transit regarding
22. E-mail received May 7, 2002, from Morris County Chamber
of Commerce regarding MADG - Economic Development Awards Luncheon.
Utilities / Cable
23. Fax received May 10, 2002, from Comcast regarding Cable
System Upgrade, Building a New Playground, Aid in September
11th families and Programming.
President Scapicchio stated we have 23 pieces of correspondence
on the agenda and asked if Council had any comments on same?
Mr. Rattner: I have a question I guess towards the Administration;
the letter we got from Flanders Crossing regarding filling
up the swimming pool. Have we resolved that?
Ms. Spencer: Actually it turns out that their pool was only
three inches down from the top and so when they came and met
with us, they have agreed to take measures this year to try
to brush the sides and clean it the same way that someone
who owned a small private pool would do, so they would be
doing that with chemicals. They have gotten a no fee permit
from DPW and which just allows them to use very limited water
in cleaning the filters and that sort of thing while they
go through that process. They are living with the restrictions.
Mr. Rattner: Then we have another satisfied customer.
President Scapicchio: They are satisfied that they have water
in their pool, they are not happy with what they perceive
to be rules that are not uniform between businesses and associations
and pools of that size. I think all of us here agree with
the Mayor's position on the water restrictions. I feel it
should be across the board equal for all parties. Right now
you have some commercial establishments that rely on these
pools for an income that can fill their pools up. I just found
this out that these large concrete pools are drained every
year for several reasons. I think they take in excess of 60,000
gallons or so to fill back up 60, 70, 80,000 gallons. So I
think that the Mayor is probably going to look at instructing
them prior to next year to think twice before they drain those
Mrs. Miller: We have the Village Green and the ones up at
Eagle Rock. I think they empty them every winter.
President Scapicchio: Cynthia, do you remember how many there
were? A half or dozen or so maybe?
Ms. Spencer: Actually, all of the pools that are part of
Homeowners Association or apartment complexes, those will
be treated as private residents just like Flanders Crossing.
The ones that would not would be are Solar Sun the Jewish
Daycare Center Camp that has a pool. I believe it is only
President Scapicchio: Anyone else on correspondence? Seeing
none, we will move forward.
ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING
Ord. #20-2002 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the
Township of Mount Olive Ordinance Authorizing the Sale of
Block 2801, Lot 89 to Edigio Floro for $10,200. (Result or
In Rem Foreclosure Action)
Mr. Dorsey: This is a deal we struck over year ago, he has
already paid his money into my trust account and awaited the
foreclosure on a piece of property which we had an In Rem
Tax Forclosure Certificate to do so.
President Scapicchio opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2002.
Ned McDonald, Budd Lake, NJ: This really does not pertain
to the sale, but I thought sometime back there was going to
be something in these ordinances that describe where the property
was, a street address or some description other than a lot
and block number. What ever happened to that idea?
Mr. Dorsey: Frankly, I don't know that this lot has a number
yet because it is just a vacant lot, so we use the lot and
Mr. McDonald: As someone said, there was supposed to be a
map attached to these, because it is awful hard to tell where
these things are when it is just lot and block. Some further
description would be very helpful to the public.
President Scapicchio: Ned, you are right, Charlene has been
requesting this right along since the very beginning of your
term. Cynthia, could you see to it that a little map, it could
be just a copy 8 x 10 gets attached.
Mr. Dorsey: McGroarty could give it to you?
President Scapicchio: Thanks for the point. Anyone else wish
to be heard on this ordinance?
President Scapicchio closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2002.
Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ord.
#20-2002 and Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.
President Scapicchio: Council discussion?
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
President Scapicchio declared Ordinance #20-2002 is passed
on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward
a copy of same to the Mayor and to publish the notice of adoption
as required by law.
ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING -
Ord. #22-2002 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Authorizing a Fee of $25.00 for the Preparation of a Duplicate
Tax Sale Certificate.
Mr. Perkins moved Ord. #22-2002 to be introduced by title
and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on
June 18, 2002 at the Municipal Building 204 Flanders Drakestown
Road Mt. Olive, New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration
of second reading and passage of set Ordinance and that the
Clerk by directed to publish, post and make available set
Ordinance in accordance with requirements of the law. Mrs.
Miller seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Council discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA:
Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to
be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and
will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no
separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions
except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements
that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests,
any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed
from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive RE: Fieldview Estates/Toll Brothers.
2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Urging the Legislature to Move and Pass the Reauthorization
of the Clean Communities Bill A-2110 and S-1373.
3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Urging the Governor not to Withdraw or Reduce
Funds from the Emergency Medical Technician Fund.
4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Supporting the Senate Bill No. S644 - Authorizes
Municipalities to Impose Room Tax on Hotels with more than
5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount
Olive Opposing the State Freeze on State Aid to Schools.
6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Endorsing a Constitutional Convention Re: Tax
7. A Resolution Authorizing the Issuance of a Duplicate Tax
Sale Certificate Pursuant to Chapter 99 of the Public Laws
of 1997. (Certificate # 99-041)
8. A Resolution Authorizing the Issuance of a Duplicate Tax
Sale Certificate Pursuant to Chapter 99 of the Public Laws
of 1997. (Certificate #98-080)
President Scapicchio: We have eight items on the consent
resolutions agenda, does any Council person wish to remove
any one? Seeing none, Mr. Greenbaum.
Mr. Greenbaum made a motion to move the Consent Resolutions
agenda and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Any public comment on the Consent Resolutions
Rich Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: Resolution No. 6 which has to
do with the Constitutional Convention. I have a couple of
questions. This Constitutional Convention that is being proposed,
is it strictly to deal with the issue of tax reform? Or is
it going to be an opening for everybody within the State to
look to revise whatever they feel is at ill with the State
of New Jersey?
Mr. Dorsey: Based upon my long legislative career and connection
with these matters it is my recollection that once you call
a Constitutional Convention there are no constraints on what
Constitutional issues it may address. That has always been
one of the fears. In 1947 the State of New Jersey essentially
revised everything there was to revise in the State but the
issue you make and as I understand is a fair issue and once
a convention is called there is no limitation on what it will
Rich Bonte: My second question. Is the issue of how this
State raises taxes part of the State Constitution or is this
a duty for the legislature to enact how taxes are raised and
collected and distributed?
Mr. Dorsey: That is a very complex issue, as most of the
issues that you raise, Mr. Bonte. The issue is that the legislature
can only adopt laws dealing with the raising of revenues as
they are permitted to do so within the confines of the restrictions
placed on them by the Constitution. I think part of the problems
that may be addressed in a Constitutional Convention, you
can only speculate about this, would be the way in which the
New Jersey Constitution has been interpreted by the Supreme
Court over years. For Instance, in New Jersey at one point
in time, it was permitted to have a differentiation as to
the manor in which non-residential property was assessed vs.
the way residential property is assessed and obviously could
make a great deal of difference in terms of how real estate
taxes are raised and can shift the burden one way or the other.
The people who are in favor of a Constitutional Convention
believe presumably I say this in good faith they believe that
they could in some way manipulate the Constitution in order
to permit the legislature to change the way revenues are raised.
It is very difficult to answer these questions because people
who are in support of it have not yet revealed precisely what
their agenda is so it is difficult to know who has the agenda.
Mr. Bonte: In light of what you have answered to me which
I thank you for, do you think that it is wise at this point
in time that this body endorse this Constitutional Convention
without limitations at best?
Mr. Dorsey: I don't answer that question, I will let the
Council answer that question.
Mr. Bonte: I would like the Council to give this a lot of
thought because a constitutional convention is a very serious
undertaking and you know the expression, be careful what you
President Scapicchio: Rich, this was put on this agenda at
several requests from Councilman Spino. I am not in favor
of this; I am actually going to ask that we just take this
off the agenda until Earl is here to address that since it
was put here based on his request. Rob would you want to amend
Mr. Greenbaum amended the motion to approve No. 1 through
8 excluding No. 6. and Mr. Perkins seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the public on the
consent resolution agenda? Any Council comments?
Mr. Guenther: Just from what little I know and maybe Mr. Dorsey
can correct me however I feel the Supreme Court some years
ago has declared illegal the way New Jersey funds the schooling
through property taxes and I think that is what spear headed
this as the cause for this moving for Constitutional Convention.
Am I correct on that?
Mr. Dorsey: I think that is one of the reasons, yes.
President Scapicchio: Anyone else on the Council? Seeing
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
President Scapicchio: Lisa, if you could put that back on
the agenda at another Public Meeting when Mr. Spino will be
here, I would appreciate that. Okay, that brings us to the
motions on the Bill List. Charlene.
Mrs. Miller: What about resolution No. 9?
President Scapicchio: The Business Administrator asked that
9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of
Mount Olive Authorizing the Filing of an Application for a
Smart Growth Grant.
1. Bill List.
Mrs. Miller moved to approve the Bill List and Mr. Guenther
seconded that motion.
President Scapicchio: Council comments on the Bill List?
Mr. Rattner: Just one for the CFO, I see Lamp Post Electric
is back on there. Did we resolve the issues? What are we paying?
Mrs. Jenkins: We have negotiated them for services and I
believe Mark DiGennaro is currently in the process of preparing
a bid for that service.
Mr. Rattner: It looks like the total amounts are well within
the bidding laws at this point.
Mrs. Jenkins: We are. Absolutely.
President Scapicchio: Anyone else on the Council? Sherry,
on page 4, Ford Motor credit lease at $2,009.00. I have not
seen it before, or it hasn't caught my eye. We had one Ford
Mrs. Jenkins: This is just an April lease payment. It is for
the two leases that we have, the two Chevy Impalas.
President Scapicchio: This says Ford.
Mrs. Jenkins: Ford Motor Credit is who we are making the
lease payments to.
President Scapicchio: You mean they finance the Chevy's also?
Mrs. Jenkins: Yes.
President Scapicchio: Okay, thank you.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
2. Approval of Raffle Application #1034 & #1035 for the
Jewish Ctr. Mount Olive.
3. Approval of Peddlers Permit for John Woodburn.
Mr. Guenther moved for approval for Raffle Application #1034
& #1035 for the Jewish Ctr. of Mount Olive and the Peddlers
Permit for John Woodburn for Mobile Food Vending. Mrs. Miller
seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Board of Health, Ray Perkins: The Board of Health had a meeting,
there was no action taken, there was no ordinances to be passed.
It was just a general meeting, so that went rather quickly.
As a matter of fact Councilman Rattner stepped in and actually
lengthened it a little bit.
Mr. Rattner: I didn't say a thing.
Mr. Dorsey: Your presence.
Pride Committee, Ray Perkins: The Pride Committee is working
the beach now. It has the new flags up they put through part
of the requisition to help get that accomplished for the Memorial
Parade. We are coordinating with the Historical Society for
getting those flags down right after the Fourth of July and
having banners put up in their place basically commemorative
for September 11, 2001 as well as other holidays. The essay
contest, the final essays were submitted. They have been reviewed
and my understanding, we should have a winner picked for the
essay contest for Memorial Day. The Robotics Club is going
to be getting an award on the 21st. The Pride Committee is
also taking part to make a $200.00 award to them.
Open Space Committee, Mrs. Miller: We met last night and
I think that the good news is that we recently purchased the
Alden Smith property which was 22 acres. I guess that has
been completed and some of our open space people and environmental
people were at that Crown Towers meeting and they highly complimented
Mr. Dorsey for his presentation at the hearing. They have
been working on a new list of perspective properties, I guess
it is four or five pages long. It is very colorful and they
are going to be sending a copy of this. They discussed it
last night and they will be sending a copy of this to the
Council for review.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Charlene. That is the second
oral argument I have watched Mr. Dorsey make and it is always
very interesting to watch him make those arguments, I might
also add that Mr. Bonte did an excellent job.
Mr. Rattner: This weekend what is commonly referred to as
the Lake Committee had their annual lake clean up which I
participated in. It was under the direction of Fran Lashway
who was able to scramble up about 20 volunteers. We more than
filled the dumpsters that were provided by the Town. The maintenance
on the trees, the new mulch and everything else so it is all
set for the parade goers come Memorial Day.
Planning Board, Rob Greenbaum: Special meeting last week
with regard to Shoprite. The objector put on two of his witnesses
a planner and Peter Steck of Bosewell Engineering, the objector
has one or two more witnesses to put on this Thursday and
I expect that the Shoprite application will come to a vote
of the Planning Board this Thursday. Originally the Second
Street application was to also be heard this Thursday, but
they had voluntarily asked to have it adjourned and rescheduled
which was done at the last meeting.
Mr. Dorsey: Rob, I take it this is a serious objector?
Mr. Greenbaum: They are represented by Beedie Pedavano. On
behalf of Mr. Riad.
Mr. Dorsey: What is the objector? It's serious here.
Mr. Greenbaum: Mr. Riad who has retained the Beedie Pedavano
Firm owns the A&P shopping center and the shopping center
across the street. Although the objection has not been stated
to the Planning Board, I think it is fairly obvious.
President Scapicchio: The Clerk has just informed me that
the attorney for Shoprite has requested the financial disclosure
forms of all Planning Board members. Okay, anyone else?
President Scapicchio (cont'd): I have a small little report.
Council Committee has been going through the Mt. Olive School
Board Budget and today we have presented them with an Attachment
A that has five pages of areas of savings that we believe
can be made and will still provide for a thorough and efficient
education for the students of Mt. Olive Township. We have
identified savings totaling $1,339,846.00. The Board of Education
did not look very happy. We have had our auditor Gary Higgins
do a three year trend. He prepared a detailed analysis and
there are some line items that have significantly increased.
We have a hand out that Lisa has made copies of. We have a
special meeting scheduled for this Friday at 5:00 pm for this
Council to adopt this Resolution. That is where we are.
Mr. Dorsey: It must be adopted this Friday because you are
running out of time right?
President Scapicchio: Monday the 20th is the last day and
we scheduled it for Friday because Monday I have a Board of
Adjustment meeting elsewhere with Mr. Heymann.
President Scapicchio: Okay, that brings us to the second
and the last public portion of this meeting, anyone from the
Bob Elms, Budd Lake, NJ: I see that you have scheduled a
budget workshop after this which I assume is for the Township
Budget not the School Budget.
President Scapicchio: That is correct.
Mr. Elms: With that in mind I have a few comments. I asked
for a line item budget and got it and these are my comments.
The following items are a result of a cursorily review of
the line item budget. I recognize that I did not spend as
much time with the budget as I presumed the Council members
did, so if I mention what has already been resolved, please
interrupt me and let me know what the resolution has been.
I believe that the cable video taping has been thoroughly
discussed but my recommendation would be to delete it as it
has a very small audience and in many cases can be duplicated
by the Townships periodic mailer and it looks very much like
political campaigning. Next, there once was a five percent
cap on spending. What has happened to that?
President Scapicchio: Sherry, could you answer that question?
Mrs. Jenkins: We get an index rate every year that says how
much we are allowed to go up and by law you could actually
go up to five percent. You could get approval to do that so
that is still there. But then you also get into the issue
that if you don't use the full amount of what you could go
up to you could actually bank it, so here what we have been
doing for quite a while is actually able to bank and we could
use that bank towards our annual allotment.
Mr. Elms: Like a savings account?
Mrs. Jenkins: Basically, yes.
Mr. Elms: So if we did not have an increase in the last three
or four years, we could expect a whopping increase now just
from that alone.
Mrs. Jenkins: No. Basically if you have a year where you
have movement between what you could go up or there is a difference
between what you could go up and what you actullay did go
up, the State would actually allow you to bank that and you
could use it in the subsequent year if you needed to.
Mr. Rattner: Bob, just so you know the CAP also has a factor
in it that allows you to increase it for ratable growth because
it recognizes that and not everything in the book is under
Mrs. Jenkins: For instance the library, Municipal Court;
those things are outside of CAP debt service.
Mr. Elms: The information on JIF and MEL is assessed the
largest amount of all the towns in the program. Why is that?
President Scapicchio: We are probably one of the largest.
I think that is most of the answer. We are one of the largest
communities that participate if not the largest.
Mr. Elms: Randolph and Roxbury are not as big as we are or
bigger in the way of numbers of people? I will leave that
for you to look at.
Mr. Greenbaum: Could I just interrupt here a second? It's
a question that I had as well. I was told that this year we
are under contract and regardless of what the answer to that
question is there is nothing we could do about it this year
and I have recommended a review of our insurance needs through
JIF and through MEL at the appropriate time but that is an
item which cannot be changed this year and I agree with you
that it is something that needs to be looked at.
Mr. Elms: The information submitted by the Mt. Olive Library
indicates they spent $337,573.00 in 2001 up to the end of
October. If you extrapolate that figure to the end of December
the library would spend $405,000 in change for the year 2001.
Why is there a request for $526,000 which is a 30 percent
increase over last year? These are items that I noticed going
through the Budget and I wanted to put them on the record
and you can consider them as you wish.
President Scapicchio: Is that their original request Mr.
Mr. Elms: Yes.
President Scapicchio: Their original request was reduced
by the Administration; it was further reduced by this Council.
Mrs. Jenkins: They asked for approximately six percent and
we reduced it down to four percent. I can tell you that I
am also on the Library Board and they definitely spend much
closer than the number that Mr. Elms is providing. I am talking
about the annual expenditures, but I understand what you are
saying. You are looking at an October report and you are taking
it through until the end of the year.
Mr. Greenbaum: We have actually received an updated report
as to additional expenditures after the budget information
Mr. Elms: According to the medical/dental life insurance
spreadsheets, the Township pays these insurances for the library's
eleven employees. These 11 employees represent 412 man hours
per week, 37.5 hours per employee. The library is open 63
hours a week which means that there should be more than 6.5
employees present at the library at all times. Having been
there a few times I don't think this is so. If some of these
employees are part time, why is the Township paying for their
insurances? The other thing I noticed in the library budget
is that the $96,000 insurance bill for these employees is
listed twice. Once under the insurance spreadsheet and once
under the library budget, the exact same figure. I don't know
whether that has been taken care of or not. For the Townships
legal services, Board of Health, Planning Board Zoning Board
and Ethics Board we are now budgeting almost a half a million
dollars. Has the Council considered hiring full time attorneys
for legal services rather than contracting these out? I realize
that Mr. Dorsey got all kinds of glowing accolades tonight
President Scapicchio: Bob, I could tell you that the Council
has not considered that, and that is not something that I
would personally support. I think that what happens when you
hire an in house attorney you end up with a staff for that
attorney and I think at the end of the day the expense becomes
greater than being able to outsource it. This year in particular
we spent a significant amount of time with the budget for
legal fees. A large portion of what you see in that budget
has been put there in reference to some Planning Board litigation
that is taking place?
Mr. Elms: Yes. I saw $200,000 sitting in there for anticipated
President Scapicchio: This Council and the Administration
sort of struggled with each other pulling in both directions
and we think we came to what we all agree is an appropriate
amount based on what we anticipate happening this year.
Mr. Elms: Okay. Fleet Maintenance for 2001 was $196,000 in
change and we are budgeting $440,000 for the coming year.
That may have been changed, but that is what is in the original
line item budget.
Mrs. Jenkins: We budgeted in current fund for fleet maintenance
$393,000. That is what I have on my sheet.
Mr. Elms: Last years expenditures was $196,000?
Mrs. Jenkins: No. We definitely spent much more than that.
Mr. Elms: The administrative capital improvements fund shows
$15,000 irrigation for trees and bushes. $12,500 for cable
access channel, computer cable lines, modems graphics, add
another $10,000 for seasonal decorations. Do we really need
these things in the time we are trying to save some money?
President Scapicchio: We shaved a lot of that stuff down
in some instances to zero.
Mr. Dorsey: The capital budget in total was probably cut
by somewhere in the vicinity of 60 or 70 percent because we
felt that the bigger projects and some of the smaller ones
we could not afford to do at this time, so we did cut that
much out of there.
Mr. Elms: Having gone through a bar code program at Picatinny
I am familiar with what it takes to run a program like this.
Finances requesting two bar-code readers? In order to use
those readers, we have to have a lot of other support services
with a bar code writer program or you have to buy pre-bar
Mrs. Jenkins: We already purchased bar code scanners, we
did that last year and we have a software program that was
already written to allow for the bar code program and had
saved a lot of time in terms of inputting payments and things
like that. We have actually already done that and it is working
out very well.
Mr. Elms: You are using for that rather then an inventory
Mrs. Jenkins: Well we also have an inventory that is done
by an outside company.
Mr. Elms: Using bar codes so we can do our own?
Mrs. Jenkins: We have them come in and they have a bar code
scanner that they use. Maybe we are talking about two different
Mr. Elms: The Recreation Department needs a palm pilot for
somebody. That is in the capital budget for $350.00, that
is not very much, but I thought everybody buys their own palm
Mrs. Jenkins: Where did you see that because that was not
Mr. Elms: It was in the capital for the Recreation Department.
Mrs. Jenkins: Maybe it was in the recreation operating budget,
is that what you are thinking? I don't remember it being in
Mr. Elms: Okay, we can discuss that later. I am almost done.
The Mayor's salary is shown as $7,000, Council member salary
is $4,000 and the Council President is paid and additional
$500.00. The Township policy manual defines the elected officials
as unclassified and full time is described as an employee
who works 37.5 or 40 hours a week. The policy manual states
all full time unclassified officials and employees including
department heads are eligible for Township benefits. I went
through the budget and tallied the employees in the budget
and it does not add up to the tally of the number of employees
covered by Township insurance program. I would like to know
which officials or non-full time employees had been granted
this non-taxable benefit.
President Scapicchio: I get health coverage.
Mr. Guenther: I do as well.
Mr. Elms: That is a $10,000 - $12,000 benefit over and above
the salaries that you receive, right?
President Scapicchio: I don't know that it is $10,000 - $12,000.
Mr. Elms: That is what I was told is the cost of a family
President Scapicchio: Sherry do you know what the cost of
a family plan is please?
Mrs. Jenkins: It is about $8,000.
Mr. Elms: The average that was shown on the spread sheet
if you averaged all the employees was around $8,800. Our interest
and principle payments for our dept service on what the Township
currently owes for water and for the current fund, Water and
Sewer exceeds $3.6 million dollars not counting unspent funds
for Turkey Brook, a new library, etc.
Mr. Elms (cont'd): When are we going to stop or even slow
the Township spending so we can get this debt service cut
President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the Public?
Rob Greenbaum: I have a question for Mr. Elms on one of the
items that he identified actually. He had discussed Health
Insurance, $96,000 in to different places in the budget which
you felt may have been a repetitive error. Could you identity
that area for me please?
Mrs. Jenkins: I was explaining that to Cindy. In the insurance
section, I do the recap that shows where I am going to break
everything out. That does not mean that I have allocated all
that to that insurance line.
Mr. Greenbaum: I just want to make sure that we have not
Mrs. Jenkins: Absolutely not.
Mr. Greenbaum: Could you identify the two spots?
Mr. Elms: One is under that insurance spreadsheet, and the
other is in the budget for the library.
Mr. Greenbaum: Thank you.
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: This is probably nobody's business
but I am a registered republican and the reason that I am
stating that is to put into context what I want to add. That
is and I don't know all the details, but nobody, and Mr. Candura
is included in that, should receive a letter like he read
here tonight in front of this body. We are all guaranteed
the right of free speech. You are all guaranteed the right
to contact our elected officials at any level of government
and express to them our opinions, concerns, needs, desires,
things we may want done in our County State, or Town. Whether
or not we agree with what the person does that person has
the right to do that. He does not have to receive a letter
from another elected official basically telling him to bug
out. The Mayor of this Town is not the king of this Town.
He is an elected official, he has the right to have his opinion
and we all have the right to have our opinion. That is what
the country was built for. That is what we are fighting for
overseas right now. Less we never forget this, and I want
to personally condemn that letter that I heard written here
tonight and it is nothing political between me and Lou I like
and we are friends. I don't share his political affiliations
and he knows that, I want you to know that. What I am saying
to you tonight is not political. Thank you.
President Scapicchio: Thank you Rich and I think I could
speak for the Council and I think they probably have the same
feeling you do and my personal position would be that if the
democrat Mr. Candura has a friend in the State House that
can help Mt. Olive Township out I would certainly hold his
hand and walk down to Trenton to seek that help, so we don't
endorse that letter nor do I think we have seen that letter.
Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, close
Mr. Guenther: I just want to add to the last comment you
made for the record that I agree with Mr. Bonte and I think
that is completely out of line, that letter from the Mayor.
Maybe you should wait and come back the next time when the
Mayor is present and confront him with it.
Mrs. Miller: Maybe he should listen to the tape.
President Scapicchio: I am certain he has two representatives
down at the other end of the dais and will certainly inform
him tomorrow of what was said. Anything else Bernie?
Mr. Guenther: No, that is all.
President Scapicchio: Okay, that brings us to the Turkey
Brook Project Status.
TURKEY BROOK PARK PROJECT STATUS
President Scapicchio: I understand that Cynthia would like
to go into executive session on this. Cynthia, can you tell
us the purpose and the reason that would justify executive
Ms. Spencer: A great portion of the report will be dealing
with issues that are up for negotiation with the contractor.
Mr. Dorsey: That portion that deals with municipal strategy
in terms of claims and the manor in which they will be negotiated
that is an appropriation issue for executive session, anything
else should be an open session and we can determine what that
is after we do the close session.
President Scapicchio: Could I have a motion to go into executive
Mrs. Miller moved for approval Mr. Guenther seconded that
Mr. Rattner: We have been hearing some stories about the
status of Turkey Brook and some of the problems. If we are
going to have actual negotiations that sounds serious then
we could go into closed session for that. But if we are talking
about that this point the status reports, I would like to
know what the status report is. I am not ready to sit down
for any negotiations until I find out what the issues are.
I have heard little bits and pieces. I have heard that we
will find out when it is in due time. I think the first
time we found out anything was late last night. I would like
to find out what the status is of Turkey Brook first, and
then if we have it we can say exactly what we are going into
closed session for.
Mr. Greenbaum: From the little that I have heard, unless
we are going to be discussing something different than what
I have heard, I don't believe that it is appropriate to do
that type of business in closed session. I would like to have
some greater idea as to what we are going to be discussing
tonight. Is there anything that you feel comfortable reporting
on in open session or would it be your preference to go into
executive session, put whatever report you have on the table
and then have Mr. Dorsey and Council make a determination
Mrs. Spencer: I would feel more comfortable with that.
Mr. Ratter: I would like to hear the status. If we have been
told that there are different issues or problems, that is
one thing. If we are going to talk about the next step, if
there are issues about somebody in either non-performance
or additional work that may have to be done that would take
regular negotiations, I could understand that part. But, I
don't want to go into a closed session and realize that three-
fourths of the discussion we had really did not belong there.
Mr. Dorsey: Why don't we go into closed session, and we will
simply not discuss with the Administration those things that
are open session items. We will discuss the issues that are
closed session. The rest of it will have to be dealt with
Mr. Ratter: We are going to go into closed session which
is for the reasons of litigation, contract negotiation. So
we are going to go start off with litigation and contract
negotiation when we have no idea the situation we are in or
even if we are at that point yet. I don't understand that
reasoning. If we have an issue and we have to go into closed
session because we are talking about a negotiation, that is
one thing, but right now, you are asking us to go into closed
session and negotiate something that we have no idea what
the subject matter is even about. I am not ready to sit in
on that kind of closed session.
President Scapicchio: Cynthia what does the subject matter
have to deal with in terms of negotiation and litigation.
Mrs. Spencer: There are conditions that have been found on
site and within the contract that needs to be addressed that
will require negotiation to move forward.
Mr. Ratter: We could say that with almost any issue. We buy
a truck, we are probably going to end up going to end up probably
in negotiation in going to bid on almost any project we have
but we don't go into closed session unless we don't approve
Mr. Dorsey: We don't seem to be getting a vote to go into
closed session. I think you either take a vote or say we are
not going into closed session.
President Scapicchio: Cynthia, any final thoughts?
Mrs. Spencer: No, if that is the desire of the Council then
we will do it in open session.
President Scapicchio: Well we have a motion on the table
with a second. Let's go into executive session.
ROLL CALL: Defeated. Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum and Mr. Guenther
voted no. Mr. Perkins, Mrs. Miller and President Scapicchio
Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk: This is a tie and it does not
President Scapicchio: It is obvious to me that we have a
new Business Administrator sitting up there that feels uncomfortable
and probably is not exactly sure what should or should not
be discussed and I think we should opt to give her that courtesy.
Mr. Rattner: The way I read the Open Public Meetings Act,
feeling comfortable has no part of the Act. There are very
specific conditions that have to be met to go with the closed
session. Until we get to that point, we really don't have
the right to go under the code to go into closed session.
Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to have a status report as to
what is going on at the site, which certainly does not involve
any decision making processes on behalf of this Council, because
simply understand what the issues are and then if we are going
to discuss how to resolve those issues, that might be a more
appropriate item for closed session.
Mr. Dorsey: Lets move on. The motion to go into closed session
requested and represented by the Administrators has failed.
Therefore there is no closed session at this point in time.
Someone can make a motion if we have reached a point in the
discussion where you think it is appropriate, but there is
no closed session.
President Scapicchio: Cynthia, you have the floor.
Mrs. Spencer: I would like to start with Ron Heymann. He
is going to discuss the rebidding work with Olympus.
Ron Heymann, 82 Kevin Drive, Flanders, NJ: I was asked to
come here as the chairman of the Turkey Brook Committee as
conversations and discussions came up concerning an issue
as to whether or not there had been any authorization, I guess
initially from our committee concerning the rebidding of the
project and the work done by the Olympus group.
Mr. Dorsey: You have to understand something. There is a
prelude to this discussion that we had two weeks ago. Mr.
Rattner missed that discussion as well, so lets try to set
the background very quickly. Sometime, I would say two or
three months ago, the CFO began to receive bills for work
done by Olympus in connection with the so called rebidding
process. At the last meeting we reviewed the contracts and
the resolutions as adopted by this Township Council in connection
with Olympus's contracts, the first resolution of the first
contract awarded $96,000 to Olympus. The second contract was
a resolution that awarded $505,000 for services not more than
$30,000 in reimbursable expenses. When Sherry initially contacted
me, the bills as I recall from Olympus couched as being for
the rebidding process were in the neighborhood, of $62,000.
I understand that those bills must have risen since that point
in time because Mrs. Spencer has been in negotiation with
Olympus and came to a lower number. As we all know the Council
only acts by Resolution. There were only two Resolutions.
These billings by Olympus, bring them above what was authorized
by the Council. We got into the academic but practical discussion
as to whether or not the Township ever authorized additional
work by Olympus. At that point your name was pulled out of
the hat as the responsible person in that connection. Since
that time, you have provided me with a copy of minutes of
a meeting. There were 22 people there. Including yourself
and chaired the meeting, you chaired the meeting as chairman
of the sports committee held on November 30, 2001. Maybe there
should have been a notice for a regular Public Meeting because
there were more than three council people here, but anyway
the meeting occurred. The sum and substance of these minutes
are at end of the day, Olympus was directed to do the work
that was then felt necessary for the rebid. That's a fair
summary of what happened at the meeting, correct?
Mr. Heymann: Correct. I am not under oath, so I don't know
how I am going to answer these questions, but you are right
about the scenario.
Mr. Dorsey: But you are a member of the Bar, so you are always
under oath, so remember that. I have read these minutes. They
are amazing in terms of what is not mentioned. What is not
mentioned is the key issue. No place in the minutes does Olympus
say, how are we going to be paid for this. Are we going to
be paid for this? There seems to be somewhat of an inference
at the outset of the meeting that Olympus's fowled up the
first set of bids particularly in connection with the fact
that they did not supply to the contractors for bidding purposes
estimated quantities. Fair statement Mr. Engineer?
Mr. Buczynski: Fair Statement.
Mr. Dorsey: In that connection, and that was a rather bitter
disputed point particularly by Bob Casey, but also by Gene
Buczynski that they had not provided quantities and if I recall
correctly we then had to be lectured by somebody by the name
of DeFreitas. I don't know how they do it in North Carolina.
They let the contractors create the quantities, we said that
is not the way it is done here. I think it is fair to say,
because I explained to the Township Council, that Council
and Townships could be bound by what happens even though they
don't expressly authorize it. Here we have at least a quasi
authorization, here we have what one would almost have to
consider a quayside organization or meeting involving four
Councilmen and the Mayor essentially telling everybody to
go forward with the redesign or the rebid process. There is
no way I think a Township could ever avoid that. That still
leaves open the questions as to who should be responsible
for the cost, and it leaves open the question as to what the
value was of the work that was done by Olympus for the rebid.
Ron Heymann: I don't disagree, I think though for the Council
for the several people that were not there, I should just
indicate what happened. There are new members and there some
people who aren't part of this committee. On November 30,
2001 we made arrangements, to bring in five or six or seven
people from the Olympus Group. I see Mr. Guenther looking
at the minutes, because when I spoke to him the other day
he forgot he was at the meeting, but as you can note, Mr.
Guenther was there, Mr. Scapicchio was there, I was there.
Mr. Spino walked into the meeting later than when the meeting
started, as a matter a fact, we set up about three tables
right here, a young lady was brought in from the Administration
who sat up in Mr. Guenther's chair and took the minutes. Mr.
Spino walked in about half way through the meeting, and there
was conversation at the time as to whether or not he should
be here because of the sunshine act, and he did not participate,
he sat out in the crowd and he said look, the meeting is almost
over and it was. Now I just want to set the record so everyone
knows exactly what happened. Okay, so what happened at that
time was real simple. We brought the DeFreitas group in, and
the Olympus group to indicate to them our displeasures as
to what happened on the initial bid. The next step was we
had it mandated from the Council at that point in time to
cut costs. Somehow we wanted to be able to reduce, what was
going on in order to come in with a better bid. So we sat
down and with Mr. Buczynski and his firm had ideas from us,
and ideas from the committee, we came up with some alternative
solutions for Olympus and DeFreitas to take back to North
Carolina and to revise plans. It is obvious that the intention
was to proceed, because at that point in time we had rejected
a bid, we had a Turkey Brook project that was not moving and
it was our intention to get a second bid package up here.
No question, nothing was discussed, they never said to us
hey guys, we have to be paid for this again, and we never
said hey, do what you want we are going to pay you for it.
Discussions went on, the Mayor got up. We set a time table
as to everything that went on. The only thing I could say
to you is on Page 7 of the minutes, I indicated to the Olympus
Group come back with revised estimates based on what we discussed
here today. That is what they were to do.
Mr. Dorsey: When you say revised estimates, you mean the
estimates of the quantities, or the estimates of money?
Mr. Heymann: Estimates of the quantities.
Mr. Dorsey: Because that is what Buczynski and Casey were
yelling that they had not put quantities, in order for there
to be appropriate bids. For there to be appropriate bids,
Mr. Buczynski: That's correct.
President Scapicchio: Plus, also the unit prices that they
use on some items was incorrect. Their unit pricing schedules
on most items was significantly less than the realized unit
prices submitted by the bidders. So they erred in two area
Mr. Heymann: I am not positive that I remember that. What
happened John, is that we also directed them because we made
improvements and corrections in the reductions in the project,
cut the road, do this do that. We then discussed that come
I would give the Turkey Brook report at a Council Meeting
after that meeting. That is the end of it. At that point in
time, I don't think anybody who was sitting on the Council
up to December 31, 2001 could have any inkling that we were
not going forward and rebidding the Turkey Brook project.
Again, no one discussed how it was getting paid, it never
came up as an issue, although we did take some notes, we did
not have a resolution, you are right.
Mr. Dorsey: I just want to tell you this. Today I checked
my files, I have no correspondence from anybody in the Township
about Turkey Brook other than in the same time period, late
November, preparing a Resolution for the retention on Schoor
Depalma. What I want to see is the correspondence, whether
it's letters or memos or what, then become from Olympus in
connection with these bills. I have never seen those. I assume
the amount of those bills Sherry have grown from the amount
when you first
Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): contacted me as $62,000 to something
larger than $62,000. So I have never seen any of that correspondence.
I think the Council would want to see that correspondence.
I think since we are doing this in Public, I have two thoughts.
What Olympus actually had to do in this case was almost as
I understood it, I suppose it is an over simplification that
was a cut and paste. They cut out certain fields that everybody
believed would bring the price above what you had, and they
used the same set of specs except now providing quantities
as we would traditionally do it in order to do the rebid.
I think where we are, and without prejudice to what may be
revealed by the correspondence for Olympus is that the Township
required this, directed them to do it. From my standpoint
it is not what their hourly fees are, it is really from a
standpoint of value engineering, whatever that word means.
It is really a question of what the value was that it had
to do because I am of the non professional opinion. It was
not a great deal. The other aspect is to say we don't owe
them anything because they failed to bring the project into
whatever the dollar amount was that it was originally set
for. So there are two possibilities here. That is where I
think we are. But I think we have to see the other correspondence.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don't think we need to see anything. It
is my impression and it was my impression at the time that
just from following the issue that the reason we need the
rebid was because they screwed up originally and unless someone
can tell me that's not the case, I don't care what the invoices
say, I am never going to vote to pay them. That is the bottom
Mr. Rattner: I am not going top take as hard a line as Rob,
and I understand when you have a committee trying to move
forward, so I am not going to fault Mr. Heymann because he
is spending a lot of time doing the project, but where I think
the disconnect came about is when we start seeing we were
having problems with the plans coming in late, the things
going longer than we expected, and all the different issues,
it kept coming up at Council Meetings, and we asked. We were
told that we were withholding payments because we did not
get what we expected. We were also told no, they're running
out of money. No, the contract is good, they are not talking
about money, so I think it was a surprise to us, especially
when we only found out probably a month or so ago that these
bills were actually sitting there when we are talking about
other changes. That is where we really start having a problem.
I don't know what we would have done. I would have imagined
at the time we would have looked at it and if it was additional
work we would have gone with it, but we were given the representation,
and I could go back to the representation of our Council Meeting
from the Administration saying no, no, no because I was not
the only person asking those specific questions.
Mr. Dorsey: We must, in making our own legal analysis here,
ask you to differentiate between representations that may
have been made by persons other than Olympus to this Council,
because those are not the same as representations made by
Mr. Ratter: I want to see those, but where my colleague from
the valley says never, never, never. I am saying I am not
necessarily looking at that, but why I was concerned is we
were constantly told, we will not, we will not. We have to
look the at issue. We would have to reconstruct the whole
Mr. Dorsey: Heymann has brought a great deal of focus, generated
additional material, we did not have before for which we are
very thankful. We hope this field gets done better than his
sadding of that other field. So Cindy, will you dig out for
us copies of all the correspondence that we referred to and
we will have to keep working on this.
Mrs. Spencer: I know that I had given to Dave copies of all
the correspondence that came one way from Olympus in terms
of seeking payment for the work that had been sent to Bob
Casey and to Sandy Kaplan. But, they were all one way. It
does not appear from the records that I have been able to
find that there were ever any answers given.
Mr. Dorsey: David already has that stuff?
Mrs. Spencer: A couple weeks ago.
Mr. Scapicchio: You did give me something, I am not sure
I still have it. I think what we need is copies of all the
correspondence from Olympus and any and all invoices or requests
for payment that Olympus has made from November 30, 2001 forward.
Mr. Dorsey: Have you been shredding?
Mr. Scapicchio: Well, I could have shredded that after I
read it. I told you, my position has been clear. I have always
felt that this has been a not to exceed price on Olympus's
part, and that the contract was front loaded to assure them
that they were going to continue. I know there is disagreement,
but that is my understanding.
Mrs. Spencer: Gene Buczynski is here and he is going to give
an up to date report from an engineering perspective of the
Mr. Buczynski: Good evening. I'll try to summarize where
we are at the site at this point and then we can go into some
particular concerns and problems. As far as the site goes;
the grading. I guess the overall rough grading and grading
the fields has been done. There has been some placement of
onsite topsoil on a good portion of the fields. The detention
basin has started to be excavated and I would say probably
it is around 70% done at this point. They began working on
the sewer lines, sewer connections and they had to stop at
one point because they encountered rock within Flanders Road
and we had asked Olympus to look at some redesign in that
area because the pipes were really deep and we had actually
brought that up as a concern when we looked at the plans prior
to bid and they felt they couldn't do anything to that. We
called them again during construction regarding the sewer
lines and their first comment was that it could not be done.
We ended up sending them a redesign; we thought we could lift
it so we told him we could lift it. Then the contract proceeded
with some test bits on the site to give us a better feeling
what where the rock is in the sewer lines and that is under
discussion right now as far as where we are going because
the issue on that is blasting the rock which I will get into.
Mr. Dorsey: Are we talking about work being done by Conte?
Mr. Buczynski: This is all Conte's contract. That is summary
is where we are with things that have been done in the site.
There is storm drainage that has been installed on the site.
There is some additional storm drainage to be installed which
we had some discussions back and forth with Olympus about
revising some inverts. We had some problems encountering some
rock which is still an issue as far as the redesign of these
particular areas. So that is where we are there. Problems
that come up okay with the detention basin as they constructed
the detention basin I am sure everybody is aware of it, they
hit rock. Right now they have excavated 6,000 cubic yards
of rock on the site that is all in one area of the basin.
I brought up the concern as far as what tests were done. There
was 15 test bits that were done prior to construction done
by the Town's forces under supervision of Bob Casey at the
time. I was told to reduce between 12 to 15 feet in depth,
there was not rock encountered on the site and in that area.
I know Mr. Conte, we discussed the job of Mr. Conte because
when we came up here to discuss the order of the contract
at the time, certain people were very concerned about the
order of contingencies and the rock on the site, and what
I stated that night was basically information I had seen to
date, we felt it was going to be a large amount of rock on
the site we discussed that with Mr. Conte before we awarded
the contract with him in the presence of my self, and maybe
even Ron Heymann stepped in one meeting, I am not sure. Mr.
Conte said he did additional tests on the site through out
the site and he did no think he would encounter rock. His
bid price for rock is $175.00 a cubic yard. Very simply, look
at those two numbers plus the fact that there is probably
another 1500 yards of material in that basin, you are looking
at $1.3 million. I think what Cindy wanted to do as far as
closed session goes is there is other issues regarding that
rock possible negotiations where it would not be $1.3 million,
but that is the main issue. Now the concerns I have, if you
think I am going away from open session, by all means, say
so. What it is with the rock, I think the way they set up
the bid they had additional items, but there was not a quantity
listed. It is strictly to get a bid price. So per DOT, and
blue book in the State of NJ if you are over 20% or 25% of
a you have a right to negotiate that particular item, the
unit price. I feel based on that amount of quantity $175.00
a cubic yard is quite excessive. The contractor has submitted
a proposal to us and I am not sure if that is how far I could
go as far as open session or not. I could continue, but I
think that is something we would probably want to discuss
more as negotiations. I don't want to go on the limit, but
I wanted to make everybody aware what the issue is, that's
one issue is the rock on the site.
Mr. Dorsey: You say you are still having Olympus do work
on the site, right?
Mr. Buczynski: Olympus has a contract for construction services.
Mr. Dorsey: I want to ask Sherry this question. That is part
of the second contract that we gave them for $505,000, am
I correct about that Sherry?
Mrs. Jenkins: Yes, one of the phases of that contract.
Mr. Dorsey: We had a contract for $505,000, we already know
that they billed somewhere between $62,000 -$82,000. What
is the total amount of bills that they submitted for the rebidding?
Mrs. Spencer: They have not submitted all the bills because
I met with them and got them to stop submitting bills. I could
have them mail them in, but we weren't paying some of the
Mr. Dorsey: What is the total amount of bills that they submitted
for the rebidding?
Mrs. Spencer: It would have surpassed the original contract
by about $208,000.
Mr. Dorsey: They are doing work while construction is going
on. That work is separate and apart for whatever was done
for the rebidding, correct?
Mrs. Jenkins: Correct.
Mr. Dorsey: Sherry, is there still money in the account for
this work, for the work they are currently doing.
Mrs. Jenkins: Yes, there is $30,000 left. That is $30,000
before you pay anything in terms of the rebidding, correct?
Mr. Dorsey: You have $30,000 left of the original contract
that they have not been paid. That is before there is any
payment made as to the bills that they have submitted or have
threaten to submit for the rebid of the project, am I correct
about that? Okay, we will let that go. Let's go into executive
session now for the purpose of discussing the negotiations
if any with Conte in connection with rock removal.
Mr. Rattner: Lets see if he has any other issues he wants
to bring up before we start talking about specific negotiations.
Mr. Dorsey: Not regarding those specific items.
Mr. Rattner: You said there were other issues.
Mr. Buczynski: The status of items on the site I could go
over rather quickly besides what I mentioned to you already.
Mr. Ratter: Let's hear the good news.
Mr. Buczynski: I don't know if this is good news, it is just
to tell you what is happening. That is one issue of the rock.
There is also the issue of the rock mentioned regarding sewer
lines and which is going to be part of the over all discussion
in closed session. Now there is also an issue of irrigating
the fields, the plants the not showing irrigation of one of
the baseball fields. It was considered not part of the contract.
There was a cost associated of about $32,000 if we move ahead
on that item. We are just trying to give you a listing of
some of the other issues.
Mr. Rattner: Just so I understand; this field, was it in
the original design that a conscious decision was made not
to irrigate the field and now we are deciding for whatever
reason to do it?
Mrs. Spencer: It appears that in field No. 1, the irrigation
was removed from the rebid package without the knowledge without
the sports association to go ahead and do that. That decision
was made by Mr. Casey.
Mr. Buczynski: A little bit more than that to just to fill
in the reason why it was done. I am not sure who did it, if
it was Casey or Olympus but it was
Mr. Rattner: That is why I want to get to it. There may have
been a conscious decision to do that.
Mr. Buczynski: I will put it this way. Olympus felt that
you could not irrigate that field because it was with in the
flooding and we'll say a 25 or 50 year storm of the overflow
of the detention basin design. I disagree with the reasoning
rationale, but that's why they took it out because they said
it could get flooded, and basically the backflow would ruin
the irrigation system. That is why it was taken out of the
contract. That is why I think it was agreed to with Casey
and with the design engineers at the time that was taken out.
As we are getting into it, we are talking to the contractor
and furthermore the irrigation people, that is not a concern
because of valving. As Jim Lynch has said to, he says golf
courses have irrigation they are on the water all the time.
So it really is not an issue in hearty floods. So that is
why it was not in the contract before and we are saying if
we want to put it back in and I think everybody is in favor
of irrigating that field, it would be about $32,000. We are
still waiting for an exact price from the contractor.
Mr. Guenther: But that is $32,000 extra.
Mr. Buczynski: It will be an extra that is correct. Right
now, he told us yesterday and we had this meeting with him
that he was not sure about the price and was going to look
into it. The $32,000 was based on the fact that the bid had
three fields to be irrigated for roughly $96,000. One field
is $32,000 a field. Regarding the entrance road, there is
a lot of unsuitable material there. Probably about eight feet
Mr. Buczynski (cont'd): unsuitable material will be excavated
in that area. He has a price in the bid for that removal and
replacing the good material. Based on that price in the bid,
you're looking in the vicinity of $50,000 for that area. The
contractor has requested to provide a price for removal of
some additional trees and three locations of finding other
property. He gave us a price for that of $37,440.
Mr. Rattner: Gene, before you go, one of the things, you
know we are talking about these types of things, this is something
I brought up when we were discussing the bid. A lot of these
things, I don't think are abnormal in this type of work and
this kind of big project. That is why I was very strong in
keeping an amount there for contingencies, because you are
going to find bad soil. You are going to find a lot of things.
You are going to make changes because once you start laying
something out, you notice it does not work. It is going to
be interesting to hear all these. I even have where Mr. Dorsey,
when we were talking about contingency and he even said I
probably thought it would be light and it was. You have field
changes. You have a $5 million to $7 million dollars on that
big a piece of property you are going to find a lot of things
you are going to do no different then when you build a house
and you start deciding well we forgot the closet here or we
need this or we want to upgrade this or something like that.
Some of these things aren't abnormal.
Mr. Buczynski: Few more then we could probably go into closed
session. A minor item $3,900, the spec calls for an independent
lab from independent agencies to do soil compaction for the
walls. We contacted somebody to get a price from an independent
agency and that would be $3,900 to do that work for various
walls on the site. The spec says by an independent agency.
One issue, I know it was back when Bob Casey was here, here
did a lot of work on bringing water to serve the irrigation
system and there was discussions way back when about utilizing
the well on Wyndam Point/Toll Brothers I am not sure if everybody
is familiar with that. There was a design which we were asked
to do way back when by Mr. Casey to bring and get a permit
to bring the water up to the site. Now we are looking at alternatives.
We are not sure if he ever put that money any where, I think
I discussed it with once with Sherry and she said that that
money was never allocated anywhere. That design to bring it
up there because of the pumping and the difference of height
is going to be in the neighborhood of $100,000. We brought
up an alternate to look into drilling another well on site
up in the vicinity of the detention basin outside of the rock
area where we could get the water for the irrigation system
up there and not have to pipe all that other water and put
a pump in down by the other well that was by Wyndam Point.
I know there are two other wells on site, but the two wells
that I know of are down by pond in that area. There is one
that I think was abundant up above, if somebody knows otherwise,
by all means say so. Up above I don't think was a very good
well. What we are trying to get is some additional information
from the well driller which Frank Dolan was getting for us.
My suggestion would be to get a well driller out there to
do a test well and do some testing to see what we have out
there. I think you are talking more in the neighborhood of
$20,000 instead of a $100,000 to bring that other system all
the way up. The other issue which actually Mr. Conte brought
up and I disagree, I have mentioned to Cynthia today, I disagree
with it. He brought up the concern that the entrance for a
loop road and loop road into the site. There is a fairly large
area which way back our plans show to have tennis courts and
basketball courts in it. That was taken out of the contract
and now it was just going to be lawn area. He took a position
yesterday that that disturbed area is not part of this contract.
I am not sure how we could say that because the plans look
in three or four different areas of plans or specs call for
all disturbed areas to be stabilized. I feel it is in his
contract to stabilize the cedar area. He brought that up last
night as an issue and that is something we'll discuss with
him further and site certain notes in the plans and the specs
prepared by Stuart and Klein and Olympus to discuss we think
it's part of the contract. He claimed there was a letter stating
it was taking out of the contract. I don't know of a letter
we sent, and I don't know of a letter anybody else sent regarding,
we are going to investigate that and I am just bringing up
the issues that I know of at this point. I think that is it
Mr. Dorsey: Let me just tell the Council that Mr. Buczynski's
associate Mr. Malavasi amended the contract to my satisfaction
to now insert Schoor DePalma as the construction contract
Mr. Buczynski: I don't know if I want that anymore.
Mr. Dorsey: It may be too late for that, now they have official
recognition in the contract with Conte. Of course I suppose
if you want to withdraw
President Scapicchio: I wanted to back up a second for Cynthia
and Sherry. Sherry, you indicated that there is $30,000 or
$50,000 left in the bank for Olympus towards their original
contract with us. Is that correct?
Mrs. Spencer: Yes.
President Scapicchio: How much further does that money take
us not including these additional charges that they have presented
to you? How much farther does that take us with them? Does
that take us to the end of the construction phase?
Mrs. Spencer: Within the original contract there was $50,000
allocated for construction management so yes, it should take
you to the end of the contract.
President Scapicchio: $50,000, that's what is left right?
Mrs. Spencer: $30,000.
President Scapicchio: Okay, so $50,000 was left for the construction
Mrs. Spencer: That is how much was set up in the contract
President Scapicchio: Do they have any kind of a time limit
on construction time within their contract that may trigger
some additional charges on their part.
Mr. Buczynski: I know a little bit about that portion. Their
contract calls for them to come once every two weeks to the
site and also calling up for a conference meeting once a week.
That is part of it. They are supposed to also address the
concerns that come up during construction. Part of their construction
and Administration and not extra should be another sanitary
line that needs to be reconsidered. I can't speak for them,
but I would think that is part of their $30,000 - $50,000.
The only thing that I see that would come up is additional
expenses which they fit their limit. If they are flying up
here every two weeks, I am sure somewhere along the line they
are going submit an expense report for their time coming up
Mrs. Spencer: That was actually originally estimated at the
$66,000 for what would be required for this construction management
President Scapicchio: How is the construction payment scheduled
to be applied? Is that outlined? How are we supposed to disperse
this money during the construction period to them?
Mr. Dorsey: Does somebody have a copy of their contract here?
Mr. Buczynski: Not here.
Mr. Dorsey: Well, I think we have to get that to answer that
question. I want to go back to David's question. Sherry, so
that there is no misunderstanding; you said to David there
is $30,000 left in their contract, it would be cash on hand
for their contract. Maybe what I say next is incorrect, but
if it is incorrect, tell me. I assume that is $30,000 that
you were discussing as applying against their billings against
their rebid, am I correct about that?
Mrs. Jenkins: Initially the discussion was that we could
probably use the $30,000 that was left.
Mr. Dorsey: That is the same $30,000?
Mrs. Jenkins: Yes.
Mr. Dorsey: So if there is $30,000 left for their contract
supervision at this point in time, there is no money left
to pay any extras. I am straight. Are you straight?
President Scapicchio: I am straight on that.
Mr. Rattner: We keep talking about the Olympus change orders
or additional amounts. Have we got any finalization because
we had another one of about the same magnitude that came from
Mr. Dorsey: We were discussing that with them today actually.
If you recall I sent a letter to the town, I think they were
looking at $214,000 we originally said we were not recommending
certain change orders, I think it was something like $99,000,
they think we recommended. We felt this was justifiable but
we had to meet with them to go over certain quantities of
theirs. This is a negotiation, we listed 13 or 14 items and
a letter was public. We looked at their earth work again,
they submitted the information to us and we had a meeting
with them. I agree with the earth work that they show there
was a balanced site. I spoke with them this evening where
we still feel there is probably another in our opinion we
feel we should not pay them for another $40,000 of the other
numbers. First of all I do not have my paperwork
Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): with me I shouldn't say that. Regarding
the 214, I think they agreed to the number we had before about
$30,000 that were taking out, they shouldn't get paid for,
and they agreed to. There is another roughly $30,000 that
we feel they still should not get paid for. So now you are
down to $214,000 minus $60,000 which is roughly $154,000.
I think that is the number we are talking about. Of course
they disagree with me on those two items this evening. But
that is another number that has to go into the concerns for
additional monies. I don't think there is monies for that
right Sherry, there is no monies in the old contract for Voller's.
That would be an extra. That would be additional monies that
we have to allot to it.
Mrs. Jenkins: You would have to do a change order to increase
the amount of the contract.
Mr. Buczynski: I know that.
Mr. Dorsey: There is no specific monies designated for Voller's
at this point except for this large contingency for the large
contingency that Mr. Rattner put in for the last authorization.
That is no problem. Rattner took care of that. The fact of
the matter is so everybody understands, there is an open item
with Voller's, it is still under discussion, maybe $140,000
maybe $150,000. It is still under discussion.
Mr. Buczynski: That is correct. There are no monies in the
current Bond Ordinance to cover that I don't think.
Mrs. Jenkins: If I could just talk about that. In my monthly
report I have been giving you an analysis of the Turkey Brook
Project and right now we have available in current bond ordinances):
that have already been authorized approximately I think the
last one was about $250,000. So we could cover the potential
change order with Voller's with the current ordinances that
President Scapicchio: Gene with respect to some of those
items listed on that change order from
Voller's, the issue of importing of soil cam up several times.
It was always my understanding that the original engineers
had a net removal or importation of soil, meaning that soil
that was going to be taking from one area of the site could
be used elsewhere on that site. At the very beginning Voller's
disagreed with the elevations that the Engineers had and we
had talked about having some aerial elevation shots done to
determine where that mistake came about. Could you address
that at all?
Mr. Buczynski: I was not involved in that. I could tell you
Casey was involved, I could tell you what was transpiring
back and forth. There was a lot of meetings with Voller's
at the time and they were going over the discrepancies of
a couple of feet I think it was. Ed Seiko was involved.
President Scapicchio: Let me tell you what I struggle with
that. That is you have Voller's who is working at the AIG/Baker
Site, ITC South, who has an excess of 400 cubic yards of soil
that they cannot find a home for. We have engineers that designed
a project for us that represented we needed no soil on that
site, that there was soil on that site to build the fields
we needed to build and I am not talking about topsoil, but
soil to build the base of those fields. All of the sudden
Voller's needs to get rid of that excess soil, and they find
a home for it on Turkey Brook. So we have the contractor who
has excess soil that I know he can't find a home for. We have
our engineers telling us we don't need soil here, but you
have that same contractor bringing that soil and it happened
on a weekend.
Mr. Buczynski: They did not bring the soil from
was not the soil from AIG/Baker. The soil
President Scapicchio: Gene, I am not going to split hairs
here with you though, the soil came whether it was
Mr. Buczynski: Came from that area, but from the Masonic
President Scapicchio: That was the AIG/Baker construction
Mr. Buczynski: Technically it is separated from ITC, it is.
President Scapicchio: It is not.
Mr. Buczynski: I am just saying it is part of a separate
developer's agreement. The Masonic Lodge is a separate
is from the same area, but it is a separate site.
President Scapicchio: It is all part of the same project.
Mr. Dorsey: David is absolutely correct because the ITC Trade
Zone Rockefeller group had control of that site the same as
it had control of the Texaco site. So it is getting to split
hairs to say that there was a separate developer's agreement,
but it was all controlled by the same people.
Mr. Buczynski: There was a set of additional soil, and they
talked about the overage they had on the site. They were no
talking about the material from the Masonic Lodge. It came
from that area, I am not arguing with you Dave.
President Scapicchio: So that is what I am struggling with
and nobody has been able to explain to me the discrepancy
what our engineers told us and what actually happened there.
Before I agree to give Voller's any additional money, I need
to have an understanding of that and I do not have that yet.
I have had this conversation several times with several different
Mr. Buczynski: It is hard for me to give that to you. It
really has to come from Mr. Casey.
President Scapicchio: Here is my decision.
Mr. Dorsey: My decision is that this should be in executive
President Scapicchio: Let me just make this one point John.
This one point is, we have engineers on site, on staff that
have designed this project, that represented we needed no
additional soil. I think the burden should be put on Voller's
to prove that our engineers were wrong and that they did need
to bring in soil. I don't think the burden should be on our
backs. I think that is actually before Bob Casey left, I think
that is actually what he represented to us at several meetings.
The fact that it was going to be their liability, to prove
that we did need that material, to prove that our engineers
made a mistake. I think that is the position we should take.
Mr. Dorsey: The rest of it goes into executive session.
President Scapicchio: Okay, that is the point.
Mrs. Miller: We are having water problems at Turkey Brook,
correct? The detention basin is full. The site of the new
road is like a detention pond that was not supposed to be
there. They are pumping it out with machinery, they've dyked
it, because I have seen it going down the road. I go past
the site three times a day on my school bus. I see the water
problems that we have and you have not mentioned any of that.
I want to hear about the water problems.
Mr. Buczynski: Of course the detention basin is not finalized
yet because to the rock, so there is no place for the water
to really go at this point, there was an original problem
that was called back to our attention way back when the first
storm where I think some homes right across the street from
the entrance had problems, that had soil and silk on their
site. It was an issue and basically what he did was he had
to dig a sump area which is what you see out there, I think
what he does is he pumps it into the detention basin, he also
pumps water out of that detention basin.
Mrs. Miller: Are you sure he is pumping it in to the detention
basin because it looks to me like the hose is going out of
the new road area and it is going into a storm drain.
Mr. Buczynski: If it is, it is after it is filtered. It would
not be silty water. I know he was pumping it back on site,
I thought it was going to be a detention basin, but I can't
tell you for sure. I would have to check into it.
Mrs. Miller: It just seems to me like we are doing patch
Mr. Buczynski: It is part of construction sequence unfortunately
the way it is set up right now. I mean there are supposed
to be inlets, there are going to be inlets at that intersection.
Mrs. Miller: It is like this new road is now a detention
basin that was not in the plans. That is the way I see it.
We have a pond of water in a place that was never in the construction
plan. It was supposed to be a new road.
Mr. Buczynski: You need to have some area to prevent the
water from going outside of Flanders Road. He is trying to
keep the water on site, not going across the road at this
Mrs. Miller: I could see, it looks like it is a struggle.
I want to know when it is going to change.
Mr. Buczynski: When we can get come additional progress on
the site. Right now he is basically to the point where he
is almost stopped, until we get some issues. I could go all
night on additional items on site regarding the issue of using
the on site topsoil and on site clay. We have had a lot of
difficulty with getting certain materials approved via Olympus.
The contractors are constantly submitting stuff back and forth
and there has been some delays in getting the go ahead to
move forward. So we are getting stymied and the rock is a
big issue now that, and what to do with moving ahead as far
as getting the sewers in and the storm drainers in so we could
end finishing the basin and that is where I think we need
to go into closed session on.
Mr. Guenther: Gene I hope you don't think I am trying to
put you on the spot, but I have to ask this question. How
is it possible that, how many test borings did you do to determine
that there was or was not sufficient rock to be worried about.
How does it happen that we do all these borings and we come
up with a 1.3 million dollar bill for rock that
Mr. Buczynski: That is a very good question. I spoke to the
contractor to and I spoke to Bob Casey and even Bob was very
amazed that there is rock up in that area. But he said they
did test and what happened was they were getting clay and
a lot of sand, they were getting very good material and they
were doing it. I did not see where they were. I was not involved
in doing the testing. They felt that they were sure there
was not going to be anything in that area because they went
further away into higher areas, so they felt if Conte went
out on the site, because I asked him last night. I asked if
you would have taken different areas, you probably would have
gotten the rock. He said well we wanted to confirm what they
had, and we went deeper to the areas, he went even deeper
and he said we are getting really nice material and we are
basically checking and verifying what the tests were and they
said we never went to that area because we were seeing all
sanding material. There is ledge on that site up in that area,
the profile goes up and down. You might hit it in four feet,
you might hit it twelve feet below, unless you hit that spot,
it is one corner of the basin. Six thousand cubic yards seems
like a hell of a lot of rock, lets face it that you should
not know about.
Mr. Dorsey: six thousand cubic yards of rock equates to a
lot of money, but 6000 cubic yards is not a whole lot considering
the size of the total area there.
Mr. Buczynski: Even the base of it. It is just one corner
of the detention basin. It is a lot of money to spend on rock.
President Scapicchio: How far below grade did they hit rock?
Mr. Buczynski: It varies. I don't know without looking. It
went all over the place, now they have rock, I guess 15 feet
deep of rock in some areas. I don't know, I don't want to
criticize the way it was done originally with the plans with
Olympus, but there should have been a geotec for him doing
borings to the whole site, probably, initially. I don't think
it was in their contract.
Mr. Guenther: Who's responsibility was it to provide for
Mr. Buczynski: I brought it up to them. I'll tell you what
I said to them. You have $5.5 million project that almost
can't be built. I said you would think somebody would have
done detailed borings at the very beginning of the job and
basically they said it was not in their contract but they
did mention that they should get some testing and they testing
they got was the testing that was given to them which I discussed
earlier, the fifteen tests. That is all I could tell you.
President Scapicchio: Anything else?
Mr. Greenbaum: What other areas of phase I have yet to be
excavated where we're going to find additional rock?
Mr. Buczynski: The sewer lines, which we are going to go
in to and also there is one specific area of storm line where
we know there is going to be rock in it. It is not quantified
yet, they are trying to get some test pits. The sewer lines
have been quantified because he went out and did test pits
to give us a profile which is why we end up saying, hey you
could bring the line up. There is still some rock that has
to be excavated to there. I would like to discuss that amount
in closed session, because it is part of the negotiations
that we are dealing with right now.
Mr. Greenbaum made a motion to go into executive session
and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion. Executive session opened
at 9:35 immediately followed by the Public Meeting reconvened
and Adjourned at 10:35 pm.
I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount
Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true
and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened
meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on July
LISA M. LASHWAY
Mount Olive Township Clerk