Township Council Minutes
May 13, 2003
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council
was called to order at 7:30pm by Council President Guenther
with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women
fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives
defending the freedom we all enjoy
OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT ANNOUNCEMENT
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice
of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily
Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and
notices were sent to those requesting the same.
ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Greenbaum, President Guenther,
Mrs. Miller, Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Rattner, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: Mr. Spino
ALSO PRESENT: Mayor Paul Licitra; Cynthia Spencer, Business
Administrator; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk; John Dorsey,
Mayor Licitra: Bernie we have our liaison to the Board
of Education, Miffy Ruggiero. Dr. Lamonte is also here
in the audience.
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD - none
Future Municipal Leaders Scholarship Competition – NJ
League of Municipalities – Charlotte Burkly
Mayor Licitra: The three and a half years that I have
been Mayor, I get a lot of information passed through my
desk. I try to read most of it. Whatever I don’t
read, Cindy reads and Catherine will pick up on. The one
thing that I wanted to do when I first started as Mayor
was to make sure that we took advantage of everything that
came across my desk as far as scholarships, grants, items
that the youth of our Township as well as the people of
our Township take advantage of and we compete with. I think
that it is very important for Mount Olive. The notoriety
we get from these things is very important. We have had
something we have applied for the last three years; it
is a municipal leader’s scholarship which takes an
essay that has to be presented by either a Junior or Senior
in our school system. Two years ago, we did have two honorable
mentions in it, one was Mr. Kline. He had an honorable
mention. This year we are indeed fortunate, we have more
than an honorable mention, we have a winner. I was floored
by the essay itself. There were two essays, it was so difficult
to pick one and send it in. I had help from a couple of
Council people, and also staff to try and differentiate
from one to the other, but they are both just outstanding.
But we did have to pick one and send it in. It just so
happens what we thought was going to be an excellent one
and honor Mount Olive, turned out to be that. From the
40 or 50 participants throughout the State and different
municipalities, there were three winners and we have one
of them. That winner is Charlotte Burkly. But I want to
do this, I wanted to bring Charlotte up not only to give
her the check for the scholarship and read the presentation,
I would like to embarrass her, myself and the rest of the
Council by reading her essay that she put in that represents
Mount Olive. This will be in the New Jersey League of Municipalities
magazine. But also this goes along with some other articles
that we have had about Mount Olive and the way we are going.
I may add to this that it is very easy and also with the
School Administration, they supported this wholeheartedly.
Without further ado, I would like to present to you Charlotte
Burkly. I have to make you read this; it would probably
be self serving if I read it. So please, don’t be
embarrassed, take a deep breath.
Charlotte Burkly: I turn on the television ready to watch
a movie. Wait a minute! I say to myself, isn’t that
a Mount Olive Junior pep rally? That is definitely Mayor
Licitra leading the lets go M-O chant. As a resident of
Mount Olive I find myself very lucky to have a hands on
Mayor and Town Government. On many occasions I have seen
the Mayor at the local soccer field chatting with fans.
Council members, past and present are active members of
local organizations such as the Mount Olive Township Historical
Society. Recently in a special program for district fourth
graders, a large group of Town executives including the
Mayor, Council Members, Clerks, and Police Officers gave
up an entire Friday morning to participate in a mock Council
Meeting and subsequent tour. By showing concern for the
youth of our community, the town and government invest
in the future. At the same time, they successfully ensure
the security, comfort, and enjoyment of all citizens, in
all stages of life. From the time their birth is announced
to the Mount Olive Chronicle until they experience the
Charlotte Burkly (cont’d): joys of being a Senior
Citizen in our ever changing community. From childhood
on, Mount Olive residents are a priority to the law-makers.
Inoculations are provided for youngsters for promote good
health. When a child reaches school age, programs such
as Mount Olive Child Development are offered throughout
the town. In order to prevent children from being home
alone or under no adult supervision, before-and after-school
programs are offered at the elementary schools for children
whose parents work full time. During the summer, and throughout
the entire year, dozens of Township programs are offered
for the enrichment of the community. By taking advantage
of the assets that Mount Olive has to offer, the Town Government
creates a unique experience for its residents. Budd Lake,
the largest natural lake in New Jersey boasts a beautiful
beach where, in the summertime, children can swim and partake
in actives under the supervision of lifeguards. Budd Lake
is also used for one third of Mount Olive’s annual
triathlon which benefits the Special Olympics. The triathalon,
with its main site in the International Trade Zone is an
exciting event for all: participants, their families, Town
Government Officials, and many volunteers. Among these
volunteers are teens and Senior Citizens. Two groups often
neglected when looking at the demographics of the Town.
With the construction of the Municipal Complex, a Senior
Center was constructed quickly thereafter, giving Senior
Citizens an opportunity to socialize and relax with transportation
provided to and from the center. Also located at the Senior
Center is teen scene, a sub-committee of the Mayor’s
Youth Advisory Council, or MYAC. MYAC is a unique organization
created by Mayor Licitra in 2000, is made up of civic-minded
township high schoolers. By promoting service and listening
to local teens’ needs, Mayor Licitra has helped to
make teenagers a large and functioning part of the Community.
Working with the Senior Citizens, teens build positive
relationships learn from the life experiences of the senior
citizens and make new friends too. The huge challenge facing
the Township in the near future is unprecedented growth.
In addition to being home to New Jersey’s largest
natural lake. Mount Olive is Morris County’s Fastest
Growing Municipality. But as more homes are being built,
and more people are moving in the Town, the Town Government
is setting aside thousands of acres for Turkey Brook Park.
Turkey Brook will be home to playing fields, hiking trails,
a beautiful pond and the historic Seward Mansion. At the
same time it is a preservation of open space. In the past
ten years a new Municipal Building and middle school have
been built to accommodate our increasing needs. Yet even
with all of this growth, Mount Olive still has that “hometown
feel,” with members of the Town, addressing the Town
Council with any concerns or questions. The Mayor and the
Town Council provide a special atmosphere of caring and
concern for each and every need presented to them by community
members whether it is from an elementary school student
wondering about all-terrain vehicle usage, a property owner
concerned about garbage collection or a Senior Citizen
voicing his appreciation of the new center. As a member
of Mount Olive Township, I have seen the many programs
and special opportunities available. Our town is growing
rapidly, but the local Government is up to the task; Mount
Olive Township officials are ever visible to members of
the community. Tune in to the Mayor’s television
show and see the wonders the Town Government can provide!
Mayor Licitra: That wasn’t too bad. Mrs. Risko?
If I may say something about Mrs. Risko, she has been around
along time and she taught my children. I would like you
to read the State certificate if you may.
Noreen Risko: Certificate of participation presented to
Charlotte Burkly, Mount Olive Township, State winner for
your interest in civic contributions to the community as
evidence by your participation in the future of Municipal
Leader Scholarship competition May 1, 2003. Congratulations.
Rosalie LaMonte, Superintendent: I have the fun part of
presenting a check of $1,000 from the New Jersey State
League of Municipalities made out to Charlotte Burkly,
4 Edward Drive, Flanders, NJ. Congratulations.
Mayor Licitra: I can’t tell you how proud we are
of you and how well you represented Mount Olive. Hopefully
we will have more people come out and represent us as well
as you do. Thank you very much. I will be making a presentation
to you at the awards night. That is the one before the
graduation night. I will be there and we will make that
presentation along with others. Thank you again.
Mrs. Spencer: The sports associations came to me and asked
if they could request that two members of Council be asked
to attend the meeting on Thursday morning to discuss an
issue concerning Turkey Brook and the extension of utilities
to the concession stand pads for the sports associations.
The meeting is going to be held at 8:00 am on Thursday
morning in the administrative conference room.
President Guenther: That is our budget sub-committee.
Dave and Steve, could you both be available?
Mr. Rattner: I am not sure if I am available. I think
I have a 9:00 commitment that day.
Mr. Scapicchio: Thursday morning doesn’t work for
me. It is going to have to be the following week; I know
I won’t be here on Friday.
President Guenther: That is also your late workday, isn’t
Mr. Scapicchio: It is.
President Guenther: Then you are leaving town on Friday?
Mr. Scapicchio: Friday Morning.
Mrs. Spencer: Does Monday work for everyone. The reason
that I am asking this is because it is a some what time
sensitive issue in that it has to do with prices and getting
back to a contractor as to whether nor not they will be
able to go ahead.
Mr. Rattner: Monday is not good for me; however I am out
of town. Let me find out first thing tomorrow morning.
Maybe I could make a switch with somebody on Thursday morning.
Mrs. Spencer: The meeting should not take more than an
Mr. Rattner: It is just that I teach class at 9:00 am.
I have to find someone to cover.
Mr. Scapicchio: Either that or we could set up a conference
call. If it was via conference, I could probably do it
Mr. Greenbaum: Bernie, if you need someone to fill in,
I am available Thursday morning.
Mr. Rattner: I may be able to do it Thursday, I just have
to see if I could switch.
President Guenther: Do you three want to work it out between
Mr. Scapicchio: We’ll try to work it out.
President Guenther: If one of you can’t Steve or
Dave then give Rob a shout. I would also volunteer, but
I have a conflict that morning.
Mrs. Spencer: Thank you.
Turkey Brook Park Project Status
President Guenther: Well we had the tour of Turkey Brook
Park but is there anything else that you want to report,
Cindy, for the public?
Mrs. Spencer: I’ll do it real quickly because we
did not go up to the actual buildings, but the slabs have
been poured at both buildings, above ground masonry has
started, all utilities are complete. The project is still
on schedule. As we saw walking the fields, all fields have
been sodded. Soccer Field #4, the Sand based field was
started this morning, and should be completed tomorrow
morning. This project is 98.9% complete. Over the next
couple of weeks, Conti will be returning to the site to
continue rolling the fields to level out any inconsistencies
that may have been created by the sod laying machinery,
fixing any dips in fencing and completing pedestrian pathways.
Our biggest obstacle which should be solved this week is
that we are still waiting for GPU to come out to the site
to run the connection for the power across Flanders Road
and as soon as that happens, we will have power to the
both wells, we’ll be able to fill the detention pond
and start using the irrigation system to water the sod
down. In the meantime, pray for rain.
Mr. Greenbaum: Last night someone came to me and raised
an interesting point which I wanted to share with the administration
and see if anything is being done or could be done. It
relates to the detention pond itself, specifically concerns
about a standing body of water and the mosquito problems
that have plaqued north New Jersey. The suggestion was
made that perhaps a fountain just to keep the water moving
so that it is not a stagnant body of water. Has that been
Mrs. Spencer: Jim actually has an answer for you, because
this question has come up before and I will let him explain.
Mr. Lynch: In response to the concern over obviously West
Nile Virus and mosquitoes developing; what we have done
is in calculating the rate of recharge with two wells to
that pond and calculating the irrigation intake capacity,
event for moderate nightly watering, the turnover rate
in that water will inhibit larvae development and mosquito
growth. In the even that there was a period where we did
not need the irrigation system and there was
Mr. Lynch (cont’d): not a large turnover rate, we
can utilize services. Morris County Mosquito Commission
could be brought in and they will treat the facility. However
with a typical summer, I don’t anticipate. The water
coming out of those wells from the depth that they draw
from is so cold; it should prohibit the development of
any Mosquito Larvae or weed growth in that water.
Mr. Greenbaum: Would we be able to physically check the
mosquito population in that pond, is it something which
would be visible to the naked eye?
Mr. Lynch: We could have Morris County Mosquito Commission
come out on a regular basis and take a sample. They do
sampling right on site and they can determine.
Mr. Greenbaum: If it is an issue, it is something that
we can address down the road.
Mr. Lynch: Absolutely.
President Guenther: Jim now that we are discussion the
pond, the decision was made not to fence it, correct?
Mr. Lynch: I believe we did decide at the time not to
fence it. If memory serves me correctly, it was an issue
where we were going to discussing it again this spring.
It is something that I don’t think there is a definite
answer on right now. We will have to see when the park
comes into use. As I stated tonight on the tour, the baseline
is only three feet deep. I know three feet can be perceived
as a great depth or a very shallow depth of water. That
is something that if there is input from Council on that
I would be willing to discuss and listen to them.
President Guenther: Charlene, did you have a comment about
Mrs. Miller: I thought that we were going to wait until
Conti Construction was done and then look into a private
President Guenther: I think there was concern especially
small children, that they could climb up the sides of that
and somebody can…Well okay, fine. I think that makes
sense. We’ll wait until Kyle Conti gets off site
and see how…
Mr. Lynch: We did receive a quote in the fall. It was
a very high price as I recall. Exactly what that was, we
would have to look through the minutes, but we did decide
no that Councilwoman Miller brought that up that we were
going to revisit that once Conte’s contract was completed.
President Guenther: I don’t remember where the discussion
took place, but somewhere the arguments were made, pro
and con. One was well, if you put a fence up and a ball
falls over, then it makes it all the more difficult and
makes it even more dangerous if some kid tries to go over
and get the ball out of the pond. I don’t know. Arguments
on both sides, I guess maybe we should have the discussion
Mr. Greenbaum: One other issue Bernie, I was on site,
it must have been Monday, and your guys are working in
the barn and I think they are doing a tremendous job. I
am glad to see that we are doing so many more things in
house under your supervision.
Mr. Lynch: Thank you. To give the Council a brief update,
as you are on site this evening. The windows are now in
the barn. We have one more door we will be constructing.
You may have noticed over the Garage door into the barn,
we’ll construct that and then we’ve begun the
stone work to replace what we have had to take down to
make the building a little more structurally safe. So we
will be working to reestablish the load capacity for the
second floor and I am still working to get the best quotes
possible for a roof so that I could present Council with
the best numbers possible. So I will be coming back to
you with that in the next couple of weeks.
President Guenther: Thank you Jim. Any further questions
regarding the park? Okay, the old municipal building. I
believe we had an update the last time that we’re
really waiting for the end of the summer.
Mrs. Spencer: The end of the summer when Joe DeMaria will
have some concept ideas for us. However there is one issue
that has come up in terms of safety for our residents this
summer when the beach is open. So we would just like approval
to take down the fire escape which is not actually attached
to the building, but if we were to remove that, it would
open up the access way to the beach to make it a little
bit wider and a safer area for residents to be passing
through when they enter into the beach.
Mr. Rattner: So we have a cost estimate on it.
President Guenther: I believe we can do it in house.
Mr. Lynch: Today I was on the beach, you have probably
seen, there were large piles of sand that were delivered
for this beach season. There is approximately a three foot
pathway between the waterline and the proposed snow fence
that Schoor DePalma’s Engineer determined we needed,
in looking at that, in the event we needed to empty the
beach area of patrons. It would be a serious issue to get
that many people through such a small area. The fire escape
structure that is not attached but exists adjacent to the
old municipal building is one that leans back and forth
dependent upon ground stabilization whether it is frozen
or soft. What I propose today was if we take that structure
down, and use block to seal the passage way that was opened
up from the original building into the fire escape, it
would be a benefit in that it could give the beach staff,
enhance capability to get bodies on and off the beach if
we needed access with first aid from either side, then
we would have that flexibility. It would also save some
of the weather that is getting into the old building. I
know we have had many discussions on the old building but
if we used some of the block that we take down, we can
block up that entrance and stop weather from getting into
the whole town hall until we have an absolute plan of action.
That could all be done in house by DPW staff. I have talked
with the Road and Sanitation supervisor, Tim Quinn. Between
our staffs, we have the capability to take the fire escape
down; I will be talking with Russ Brown about the necessary
demolition permit if Council approves it. But I think it
is a benefit in that it stabilizes the structure as it
exists and it helps to create a safer larger beach facility
for the summer for the 12,000 patrons that use that beach.
We just did not want anyone to see us taking it down. We
came to Council, we want input on it, and we want to know
if it is something that you guys concur with.
President Guenther: I see no problem with it, if that
is your recommendation then maybe we should go ahead and
do that. Council Comments? Okay, go ahead Jim.
Mr. Lynch: Thank you.
President Guenther: So we will be anxiously waiting the
end of the summer, hopefully with a plan as to what we
will do with that site. I have here a couple memos for
old business. Apparently Rob, I will address this to you.
It was decided that the Cluster Committee that we formed
would be expanded and the subject is going to be taken
up by the Master Plan Committee.
Mr. Greenbaum: At the Planning Board Meeting last Thursday
Sandy raised the issue as to the appropriateness of creating
a new committee when the Master Plan Review Committee was
already in place. My concern was that the Master Plan Review
Committee did not include the Environmental Commission
and the Open Space Committee and various other groups and
I was educated that it does in fact include members of
each of those groups. It does not matter to me who actually
reviews and conducts the meeting. The same issues will
be addressed and brought forward for consideration and
since the committee already exists and it’s an open
meeting that anyone can attend, I didn’t have a problem
with it. If that is what the Planning Board thinks was
a more appropriate venue, I don’t think anyone here
would really have a problem with it for purposes of harmony.
I suggested that we move forward as per Planning Board
President Guenther: Does anybody have any comments about
that? I have no problem with that. So the cluster committee
we formed last time is officially disbanded and will be
taken up by the Master Plan Committee and appropriate representatives
of other committees to make sure there is total inclusion.
Mr. Greenbaum: The meeting is going to be June 11, 2003.
It is an open meeting.
President Guenther: Okay. Where do we stand on the Muelbouer
Mr. Dorsey: The answer to that on the Agenda tonight is
a resolution. The Vizzoni group which has been involved
with that subdivision since 1994 has collapsed. They have
any number of judgments against them. There is a resolution
here that essentially resolves it and it also provides
where by we will get title insurance not withstanding various
judgments that have been gotten against Vizzoni for the
three principle tracks that were deeded to the Township.
One was like 16 acres for open space. There are two other
smaller tracks. I believe that the Muelbauer Building is
one of those tracks, it fits right in the sub-division.
We will then have ownership and we’ll have title
insurance to guarantee ownership with our current property.
President Guenther: Okay so that will finally get resolved.
That is all I had for old business. Anybody else have anything
they want to bring up?
Mrs. Spencer: One thing of old business. We did resubmit
our Grant for reimbursement for the President’s Day
Snowstorm and it looks as though we are in line for approximately
$74,000. Hopefully we will find out within the next month.
President Guenther: Okay. Any legal matters? Mr. Dorsey.
Mr. Dorsey: We have had an ongoing battle with Fire Tower/Crown
Tower over their Farmland assessment. Their farmland assessment
was revoked about two years ago by Jack Marchione because
they failed to file within the required time period. The
County Board had upheld his decision. There was a motion
for summary judgment before last week before Judge Kuscy
and Peter represented the Township and we were successful.
It’s about $70,000 involved in that particular deal,
so we are still ahead.
President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Dorsey.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS
January 28, 2003 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mrs. Miller, Mr.
Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: Mr. Spino
Mr. Scapicchio moved for the approval of the minutes.
Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
Letters from Residents
1. E-mail received May 4, 2003, from Tom Graziano regarding
hiring of new Police Officers.
Notices / Tort Claims
2. Notice of Petition received May 2, 2003, from the State
of New Jersey, Board of Public Utilities regarding the
New Jersey Propane Gas Association seeking relief from
application of the One Call Damage Prevention System.
3. Letter received May 1, 2003, from Vollers regarding
ITC Crossing Shopping Center – Notice of Mechanics
League of Municipalities
4. E-mail received May 9, 2003, from the New Jersey State
League of Municipalities regarding Tax Relief Convention,
Traffic Impacts and Tax Relief Convention.
DOT / DEP / Permits
5. Letter received May 1, 2003, from the State of New
Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection Division
of Watershed Management regarding proposed amendment to
the Mercer County Water Quality Management Plan.
6. Letter received May 2, 2003, from the State of New
Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding
Statewide Solid Waste Management Plan.
7. Letter received May 5, 2003, from Glasson Environmental
Services regarding US Route 206/Duffy Road Lot 4 Block
6600 for Individual Transition Area Waiver.
8. Letter received May 7, 2003, from the NJ Transit regarding
Public Hearing Notice.
9. Letter received May 8, 2003, from the State of New
Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding Pleasant
Hill Road, Municipal Aid 2002.
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards
10. Letter received April 30, 2003, from Historic Preservation
regarding the 13th Annual Historic Preservation Awards
11. Letter received May 2, 2003, from Morris County Green
Table regarding “Protecting your Investment in Open
12. Letter received May 5, 2003, from Morris County Agriculture
Development Board regarding the Morris County Master Plan:
Comprehensive Farmland Preservation Plan Element.
13. Letter received May 7, 2003, from the Morris County
Visitor’s Center regarding Summer Tour Series.
14. Letter received May 7, 2003, from Alliance for Action
regarding Smart Growth Program.
Utilities / Cable
15. Letter received April 30, 2003, from Jersey Central
Power and Light regarding a new temporary contact person.
President Guenther stated there were 15 items of correspondence
on the Agenda and asked if Council had any comment on same.
ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING
Ord.#23-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Establishing a Weight Limit on Emmans
President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance
#23-2003. Seeing no one wished to be heard President Guenther
closed the public hearing on Ordinance #23-2003.
Mr. Rattner moved for the approval of Ordinance #23-2003
and Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council Discussion. Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
President Guenther declared Ordinance # 23-2003 as passed
on second reading.
ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd Reading May 26, 2003)
Ord.#24-2003 Bond Ordinance Providing for Various Capital
Improvements of the Township of Mount Olive,
in the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating the
Aggregate Amount of $1,968,418
Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $1,870,000 Bonds
or Notes of the Township To Finance Part of the Cost Thereof.
Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ordinance #24-2003 be introduced
by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting
be held on May 26, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road Mount Olive New Jersey for
a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage
of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish,
post and make available said ordinance in accordance with
the requirements of the law. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA:
Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered
to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council
and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will
be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions
except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements
that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests,
any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be
removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Rejecting All Bids Received for Sidewalk
Improvements Along US Route 46.
2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive RE: Vizzoni Group and Intercounty Paving
3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Preliminary
Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Rand
Homes at Rockaway, LLC. (formerly Aasma)
4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Requesting the Morris County Board of Chosen
Freeholders to Temporarily Prohibit Parking on Certain
Sections of the County Road Known as Flanders Road Located
in Mount Olive Township.
5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Temporarily Prohibiting Parking on Certain
Roads and Temporarily Restricting Parking to One Side on
Certain Roads in Mount Olive Township.
6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Relieving Greg Munkirs or One EDU.
7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing a Change Order for Turkey Brook
Park in the Amount of $39,217.00.
8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Endorsing Senate Bill #169. (Clean Water
Trust Fund Act).
MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA
Mrs. Miller moved for the approval of resolutions one
through eight. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
PUBLIC PORTION ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS
Mr. Bonte: I have a question, maybe clarification on number
eight, which is the New Jersey Clean Water Trust Fund Act.
It mentions in the second paragraph that there would be
a tax on water consumption of .10 per thousand gallons.
The current tax that is in place right now only applies
to Public water systems but the new tax would extend to
other water users and then it says such as industrial and
commercial. Does it also apply to residential users or
have private wells?
Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think so. It is not my understanding.
Mr. Bonte: Does it specifically say that they’re
President Guenther: How could you measure it?
Mr. Bonte: About 25 years ago the State of New Jersey
tried to do something like this. Declare that the water
resources of the State were state property, not individual’s
and there was a proposal to tax individuals for the “States
water” that they mined at of the ground. They have
a rough idea of how much water each individual uses per
day and the tax is going to be applied. So I am just curious
if this exempts the private well owners, what prompted
me to ask this is because the language in this resolution
says that the current law only applies to public water
President Guenther: In this second paragraph it says it
only applies to public water systems.
Mr. Dorsey: I was surprised when the Mayor particularly
asked for this resolution if I recall correctly or Cindy
did to support this? I frankly was surprised when I read
the Bill to find out there was already a tax on public
water systems apparently not on private water systems and
now they intend to extend it to cover private water systems
or private users. I take it that is one of the prime reasons
that it is being endorsed because it is to create a further
development of the public water system.
Mr. Bonte: My only concern is, if this is approved, and
individual homeowners that have their own individual wells
are not specifically exempted, will there be at sometime
in the future, some move by the DEP to move to have a tax
based upon this law that was passed that did not specifically
exempt private wells.
Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think that you would ask any
member of the Council or the Administration to particulate
what NJDEP would do in the future. There is no indication
in this Bill that that is the purpose or direction in which
they are going. This seems to be going in the exact opposite
direction to pick up a tax that is already on public systems.
And now place it as well on industrial, commercial and
private systems. That is the way I read the Bill.
Mr. Bonte: I guess my only question is, am I a private
system at this point, or could I become one at this point.
Mr. Dorsey: No. You are not the private system that they
are talking about in this Bill.
Mr. Bonte: Thank you.
President Guenther: Any further comments?
Colleen Labow, Budd Lake: I just want to ask on the resolution
for the Gregg Munkirs for the EDU. I know that the EDU’s
have come up in discussion in the past. I understand why
you are taking one back because two lots were joined together.
It says on here that it is not going to become effective
until all outstanding charges are paid. Okay, do we actually
purchase the EDU back from the people?
Mr. Dorsey: Don’t purchase, we simply take back.
We relieve Mr. Munkirs of the responsibility of the balance
of the assessment on the one EDU, specifically requires
him to bring himself current in terms of every payment
that had come due in connection with the EDU that is now
being taken back.
Mrs. Labow: I don’t know if this is an appropriate
time to ask this, but with the EDU’s for instance
on second street where Illmar Asmaa purchased 10 EDU’s,
maybe Rob can update me. Are they going to give him permission
to possibly develop nine lots. That leaves him an extra
EDU. Then the same thing would be, any situation, like
somebody is only given approval for eight homes vs. 10
President Guenther: That has already been given back.
Mr. Dorsey: The trade off here is that he gave up one
lot in his sub-division to apparently placate the Planning
Board and therefore it is felt to be unreasonable to insist
that he keep the 10 EDU’s.
Mrs. Labow: I don’t mean to single out anyone in
particular, I am just wondering, you’re just kind
of taking it case by case, it’s not like anybody
who has extra EDU’s…
Mr. Rattner: Two years ago we passed a resolution having
the ability after the review of the Public Works Director
on the situation to take back these and we have done it
probably a number of times. We actually passed a resolution
two years ago.
Mrs. Labow: So then how it works is, whatever date, like
if they come forward and they want the Town to claim back
the EDU then they just need to make themselves current
on whatever charges as of that date.
Mr. Rattner: They have to make a case and we have to evaluate
that they really don’t need it, just because business
is slow or something like that, it is not going to qualify
them. They have to show and then they couldn’t get
it back. In other words they couldn’t change the
use. A business property, it’s very hard because
you don’t want to give it back and then have a different
use or an expansion and then you can’t and you won’t
be able to probably in the future.
Mrs. Labow: How many do we have right now? We had a 100
at one point.
Mr. Dorsey: I believe 364, Cindy do you know the exact
Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know. I could get you an account
Mrs. Labow: What do we do with those EDU’s?
Mr. Dorsey: We can sell them.
Mrs. Labow: We can sell them to anybody who uses them
for that treatment for…
Mr. Dorsey: We can assign them to property owners who
are in the appropriate service area. The service area that
was laid out by the DEP for the Budd Lake Sanitary Sewer,
that cannot be transferred out of that and people who are
outside that defined area cannot connect to the system.
Mrs. Labow: That was my next question. Thank you.
President Guenther: Thank you Colleen. Any other comments
from the Public? Seeing none, I’ll close the public
ROLL CALL: Resolutions 1 through 7 Passed Unanimously
Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Perkins and president Guenther voted no on No. 8
1. Bill List.
Mr. Perkins moved for approval of the Bill List. Mrs.
Miller seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unaminoulsy.
2. Approval of an Amendment to Bingo License #1052 for
K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Bingo Application
#1077 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Raffle
Application #1078 for the Budd Lake Volunteer Fire Co.
No. 1; Raffle Application #1079 & #1080 for the PTA
Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve an amendment to
approve Bingo License #1052 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph
A. Cassidy Council; Bingo Application #1077 for K of C
#6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Raffle Application
#1078 for the Budd Lake Volunteer Fire Co. No. 1; Raffle
Application #1079 & #1080 for the PTA Flanders. Mr.
Perkins seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.
Library Board Liaison Report
Mr. Scapicchio: No report. We have a meeting tomorrow
Mr. Dorsey: Maybe I should just tell you. The low bidder
has indeed submitted a signed contract. He submitted to
me the most important document and that was his payment
performance bond issued by an establishing insurance company.
He also submitted a certificate of insurance. Now there
some technical changes that have to occur in that, but
I think he was on his way. Although there was great concern
before the Board of Trustees awarded the contract to Blackstone
with a possible contest from the second low bidder, he
has not done anything. I am beginning to think his time
has run. Perhaps they have decided we have made the correct
President Guenther: We did have a meeting this last week.
There was a report made by Jim Lynch that the football
fields came out of the winter in very good condition. They
needed no rehab this spring despite the tough winter. At
Sandshore School the parking lot is being redone, so this
is going to interfere with some of their recreational activates
this summer and the school also reported that the trailers
will go in the front of the building to handle the overflow
at the High School. They will be delivered shortly. Also
there is sodding that went on at the middle school, both
fields, so the public needs to stay off for a period of
12-16 weeks. We, have urged all the different recreational
groups to please update information so that we can keep
the website updated. That has been one of my pet peeves,
it is not as updated as it should be. So hopefully we could
keep reminding them to do that. We also are in the process
on writing a mission statement for the Recreation Committee
and that was one thing that we discussed and that will
be shortly forthcoming.
Board of Health Report
Mr. Perkins: No meeting last month, there will be a meeting
Planning Board Report
Mr. Greenbaum: Interesting Planning Board Meeting the
other night. We met on February 8th, which is the second
Thursday in the month of February, originally up for discussion
was Crown Tower and the issue related to jurisdiction which
was pulled at the request of the applicant. There was very
interesting discussion by Hovnanian who came in with a
concept plan, similar to the concept plan which I had brought
to Council on a prior Planning Board report. It is a very
interesting issue, as you know we are talking about the
piece of property which is tentatively scheduled to become
an adult active community in the new Master Plan. It’s
the piece of property behind the old Board of Education
building on Route 46. There are obviously access issues
because there is only going to be one entrance in and out
and it is going to be right onto 46. Left turns are going
to be an absolute nightmare. It was raised and will be
addressed. Here is an interesting issue, we are looking
at a zone which is now commercial and we were looking to
bring in affordable senior housing for active adults. I
think the question has really come up as to whether or
not this is actually affordable. When Hovnanian first came
in the units were, according to their testimony, going
to be priced in the $250,000-$300,000 range. Obviously
it is market driven. When he came back this time with his
new concept plan this time which included more units than
originally, but same density, his units went up to $275,000
to $375,000. The question arose whether or not those are
actually what we are looking to accomplish by changing
the zone or in my mind the question arose as to whether
or not we are better off just leaving it commercial. If
you look at the senior in Mount Olive who is going to move
from a house into this adult active community, the taxes
alone and I went into the tax assessors office, Jack wasn’t
there but I had a discussion with Sherry, it is going to
be valued someplace in the $300,000 range. Taxes are going
to be upwards at $1,000 a month on taxes alone. Although
we would be providing a service to the adult active community
by putting this in. I am not sure that we are benefiting
Mount Olive by bringing in another 700 to 800 adults into
the Community. Now obviously adults require less services
and that is one of the benefits of having an adult community
because you don’t have to worry about the impact
on the school system providing recreational needs, so on
and so forth. There are certainly less needs that would
be required, but I am not sure that this actually fits
with what the Master Plan originally thought was going
to happen with this development. I would ask the Mayor
if he had any thoughts on it to chime in, either pro or
con. I know our views differ a little bit.
Mayor Licitra: I think you are just about where I am,
because I was the one that stated that I didn’t think
it was going to be affordable the way that I thought it
was going to come in. It has juice, absolutely, the way
we went about this was again, how could we use our land
where we would generate services to the community. Again,
that is one of the things that we do have is that we don’t
produce school children out of this property. And recreation
services, etc. It is going to take some planning by the
Planning Board and some thought, I think Hovnanian went
back to the drawing Board and decided that they were going
to come back in to us with other plans in a more affordable
area that we can consider, or the people in Mount Olive
can consider. I think it is going to be something that
eventually will be good for the Township, but maybe like
anything else the Planning Board will dissect it and have
a lot of meetings on it I hope, and decide what we want
Mr. Greenbaum: There were several other issues that were
discussed. First, the Master Plan Public Hearing was supposed
to be this Thursday. It has been adjourned until the July
meeting because of the Cluster ordinance issue and the
Planning Board wanted to get the recommendation out of
the Master Plan Review Committee prior to having the Public
Hearing on the Master Plan. So that was rescheduled. Also,
I saw that there was a memo from Howie Weiss with regard
to renaming Link Road. I brought that to Planning Board.
I think that the street naming committee of the Planning
Board decided that because of the nature of the Road it
was not something that they felt was appropriately to be
named for a historical figure in Mount Olive and basically
sent it back to us. We wanted to rename the road under
some other procedural avenue but they didn’t feel
that it would be honoring the purpose of the Street Naming
Committee, it was to honor Mount Olive residents and that
road was just really a connector road. So that was really
their thought. This week is a very light Planning Board
Meeting. There is one application on, it’s a warehouse
on Sandshore Road. I don’t even think they are seeking
Mr. Scapicchio: Just some thoughts I want to throw out
there, I am not sure that anybody here could give me an
answer tonight. It seems to me that we are changing the
zone to accommodate this developer. This developer is already
in front of that Planning Board prior to that Master Plan
with his proposed zone changed then present it to the Council.
I would ask if we have the ability somehow, some mechanism
to be able to require that since we are changing this to
accommodate this particular developer, if we have the ability
to designate a certain number of units that have to be
built to an affordable standard and how does one define
what affordable is in an adult community.
Mr. Dorsey: When you are using the term affordable, you
are not using it in the context of Mount Laurel Housing
or COAH. You are using it in terms of affordable to…
Mr. Scapicchio: I am using it in terms of a Mount Olive
Senior that wants to sell a home they have lived in for
a number of years and move in to an adult community.
Mr. Dorsey: It is a very complex issue. I suppose you
could put it in an ordinance. You could put the market
range in the ordinance. If it were challenged, I would
have questions whether you could do it that way, but of
course one of the advantages of working with a specific
developer is, you could either get his agreement which
would be embodied in his developer’s agreement as
to prices or you simply don’t rezone.
Mr. Scapicchio: How do we begin that process?
Mr. Dorsey: The process has already begun by him submitting
the concept plan.
Mr. Greenbaum: Here is my thought on that. I don’t
necessarily disagree with you, but the process is really
going to be the change in the zone and then a formal application
being made as opposed to coming to an agreement before
hand which I don’t know that the Planning Board has
the ability to do since no plan has actually been submitted
and won’t be submitted until after the zone has already
Mr. Dorsey: I think the bottom line is, I think what you
are trying to do is admirable, it is in the best interest
of the Township. There are some legal issues as to whether
or not you can do it, but I take it that the ultimate place
of the developer is, this is the basis upon which we would
consider this rezoning. We will write it into the ordinance
and if you don’t like it tell us now because we won’t
go forward. So if you don’t like it, fine, then everybody
Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to explore that. I am sure
the Mayor would as well.
Mr. Scapicchio: I guess they wouldn’t get any kind
of approval, Rob, until after that Master Plan is adopted
Mr. Dorsey: They can’t get an approval until there
is a change in the ordinance. The change in the Master
Plan is simply the first step. Then you have to have an
actual Ordinance that deals with that. Then you have to
have site plan approval. David, you know more about building
prices than anybody here but I supposed you have to be
a little concerned is if you put to low a price on it in
today’s market. Do you get what you would then consider
to be a livable unit.
Mr. Scapicchio: I think like Rob said, it needs to be
Mr. Dorsey: We could do it with somebody like Hovnanian
or they are going to tell you upfront to forget it.
President Guenther: I know their history in Chester and
what they did and it was the same kind of thing. Supposedly
they were to come in at very affordable prices and by the
time the project got done it was close to double the prices,
pretty much market rate. They built a fine community, there’s
no doubt about it. But they build pretty much what you
could call a luxury senior community and my understanding
is most of the people did not come from the local area.
This is in Chester where the income levels are higher than
they are in Mount Olive. People are coming from all over
the County and they went for a lifestyle change and what
they could afford, so I think we have to consider that.
I have a basic philosophical difference about changing
zoning to accommodate a builder. I remember there was a
lot of community protest when the same thing was done for
Toys “R” Us. This is a little bit different,
Mr. Dorsey: Bernie I think you are missing the point.
Council would certainly never change zoning to fit the
needs of the builder. It would change the zoning to fit
the needs of the seniors in Mt. Olive. I think that is
true both legally and factually accurate. As far as I understand
the facts Bernie, Hovnanian came in after and I could be
wrong, because I don’t always have all of the facts
but they came in after there was already discussion and
that they were one of several who looked at building out
this community and obviously have the inside track because
they probably have a contract to purchase the property
from the present owner.
President Guenther: Well, they’re a purchaser under
contract is my understanding.
Mayor Licitra: You know from three and a half years ago
when we started the Master Plan, we decided we wanted to
put an adult community zone in. So this wasn’t done
in any way to accommodate the developer. Word gets out
that Mount Olive is looking to do this and people come
in. We have to look at some of these planned adult communities
and see. You can’t have one that looks to me looks
like a garden apartment complex and that is not what I
wanted. I don’t think that is what the Planning Board
wants. You want something that is
Mayor Licitra (cont’d): going to be an adult community.
I would suggest that you take a look at a couple that Hovnanian
put up and then make up your mind but this was the closest
that we could get to what could be affordable to the people
in Mt. Olive lets say.
President Guenther: Working in the real estate environment,
I think Mr. Dorsey brought up a very good point. In what
context are you saying affordable. That is really the question.
If you take the COAH and Mount Laurel decision type of
thing there are definite formulas to follow and that is
a whole different thing, but if you do it “affordable.” I
don’t know if you all noticed in the paper last week
which publishes Morris County as the richest county in
the State, we have the highest housing cost, the highest
level of income and everything else. So Hovnanian is going
to go in accordance with what the market dictates. It is
going to be driven by the market.
Mr. Greenbaum: My concept of what is affordable and I
believe that this echo’s the Mayor’s thought
was that somebody who lives in a house in Mount Olive,
lets say a house that is valued at the medium which is
about $185,000 could sell their house and move into the
active adult community, therefore relieving, themselves
of property maintenance issues on the property. Now you
are taking someone who is in a house that is valued at
$180,000 is going to be able to sell it for $300,000 or
$350,000 or whatever the number, taxes are going to be
twice as high as they were before. For someone who is on
a fixed income, that, to me, takes it out of the affordable
range of what I envisioned the concept to be. Hovnanian’s
proposal, it looks like a first class community, I agree
with the Mayor. There were some questions as to the style
of the house as to where the garages would be. Overall,
it looked like it was really going provide a community
that whoever moved in there would be very happy and would
be able to live out their lives in good fashion. The question
in my mind comes down to do we change the zone if it is
not going to fit the residents of Mount Olive?
President Guenther: I think that is a matter for more
discussion later on. It is an interesting question. How
many units are we talking about?
Mayor Licitra: About 330.
President Guenther: My concerns are always traffic and
I think that most of these people are going to have two
cars. Multiply 330 x 2. That is a lot of cars coming in
and out of there. There is not going to be pubic transportation
to take them to the places, or maybe some of them won’t
be able to drive. I mean that Route 46 is a night mare
Mayor Licitra: Keep it retail Bernie and you have strip
malls and shopping centers and then you’ll see more
generation of one can fear of traffic.
President Guenther: Does it have to be retail? Can it
be something else?
Mr. Greenbaum: It is zoned commercial, so it can be whatever
is permitted in a commercial zone.
Mr. Dorsey: Theoretically you can make it anything you
want. I think you have to decide what is going to be the
driving force. Is the driving force traffic or is the driving
force senior housing? You have to decide and then you mold
everything around the driving force.
Mr. Greenbaum: I think the Master Plan Review Committee
is already taking the opposition that it’s senior
housing which is driving the issue.
Open Space Committee Report
Mrs. Miller: Unfortunately I missed the meeting because
I am going through a drivers training certification which
involves several nights this week, so I missed it.
Legislative Committee Report - None
Pride Committee Report
Mr. Perkins: A couple of updates. The Pride Committee
is still getting ready finalizing plans for the Memorial
Day activities. They are redesigning the new bill board,
probably not looking at replacing the bill board until
sometime in July, getting it ready, so that way it will
stay up with the Marauder territory which I think everybody
will think is appropriate. Still working with Zoning and
the Building Inspector for some of the building along route
46 that are in disrepair that need to be addressed. So
that is still on the hit list, and like I said just getting
ready for Memorial Day.
President Guenther: Whatever happened with the Adopt a
Mr. Perkins: They have been working with DPW with that
as well as the roads department with Linda. They are making
some headway. There were some groups that were no longer
active that were removed from the list. Contracts were
sent out to different organization that were still active
and there is a listing of some spots that are available.
Anybody can walk into the Road Department or contact the
Pride Committee, if you want to Adopt A Spot or if you
want to put one of those hideous signs up there that has
your name on it you can do that to.
President Guenther: What department is now in charge of
Mr. Perkins: It is still running through the Road Department
Board of Education Report
Mr. Scapicchio: They met last night but there is nothing
new to report.
Bob Elms, Budd Lake: As far as the Senior Housing I would
like you to look into what happened over in Washington
Township with a piece of property that was supposed to
be a PUD with affordable housing that Hovnanian has now
built or is in the process of building 95 homes on 102
acres and the minimum price is around $600,000. Each one
of the houses is on less than an acre. As far as the retention
pond at Turkey Brook, I believe we have an ordinance on
fencing all pools. I realize we don’t fence Budd
Lake, so if you call this retention pond a lake, maybe
we could get away without it. In view of the safety of
it and where it is near a school, I would suggest that
we put a four foot fence around it like we require all
pool owners to do. Thank you.
Richard Bonte Budd Lake: I have a question regarding if
we create this adult community zone. Will these developers
come in and will the Council entertain as they entertained
once before and approved that an alternative plan known
as payment in lieu of taxes for these types of communities
because they don’t contribute to the school systems.
Mr. Dorsey: The type of community that they are speaking
of to be built by Hovnanian is not the kind that qualifies
for that kind of arrangement. That was an assisted living
facility if I recall correctly. As I understand it there
was no thought with Hovanian doing that kind of facility.
Mr. Bonte: That would obviously be a concern if that was
the next step. In light of what happened about a year and
a half ago where we granted that to Paragon Village, I
thought I sat in this room and heard that the reason that
they got this was to be able to offer fairly inexpensive
Mr. Dorsey: All I can say Rich is, they preceded with
a facility that specifically qualify under a specific statute
for in lieu of tax payments. It wasn’t because they
made any special representations or guarantees. They applied
for a facility that is under control of the New Jersey
Department of Health and DCA that is why they got that
Mr. Rattner: I just want to say I remember listening to
that presentation two different times. It was, one of the
things was it was going to be for lower income and this
way it is a percentage on the rent and that is the way
they were able to keep it low.
Mr. Dorsey: Steve, that may well have been their representation,
but that’s not the reason.
Mr. Rattner: I talked to the third area resident in the
last two months about looking into Paragano. I am concerned
and I was going to bring it up at sometime. Not necessarily
this meeting, but this filters in. I was told when we were
considering doing that, it was going to be affordable.
I have been told by the third person this is anything but
affordable. Now, we had to do a zoning change, or whatever
we had to do, we had to vote for this tax incentive. Why
would we go that route if the Town gets less money. Because
that is what this in lieu of tax is. We got less money,
the municipality is getting more because we are in lower
taxes and we don’t share it. The school system doesn’t
get anything, the property taxes would. And to have it
very expensive because I am hearing people going to Warren
County and everything else because it is just so far out
of range. This is the third one.
President Guenther: Steve, as I recall and I remember
I was still on the Board of Adjustment when they first
came, and I think we will have to check in to this. I believe
because they are getting a loan from the State there is
some State financing involved and I believe they are somewhat
controlled by DCA as far as their rent loan.
Mr. Dorsey: Let’s get out the Minutes so that we
can read what the representations were.
Mr. Bonte: Actually Mr. Dorsey, that is a very wise thing
because I sat here when they gave the presentation, I heard
the same things Steve gave and it was up to this Council
as to whether we would give them that or not. We weren’t
under the DCA to do that. But the reason I bring this up
is I was just curious, I went to the Paragon Village website
and I saw the prices and they are anything but affordable.
The Village Green is less expensive than Paragon Village
for the unassisted living portion. I think it is something
we should look at because I think there were representations
made to this committee and you acted in a manor based upon
what you heard. So I think we need to look at the minutes
and maybe Lisa has a copy of the presentation and see exactly
what you were told to see whether or not there was some
misleading information given. Thank you.
President Guenther: I think we should also check with
DCA, because I believe there is an element involved. They
have some say because of the low interest loan that they
received from the State.
Colleen LaBow, Budd Lake: I just want to ask another question
on that EDU thing. Does it cost us any money to have those
Mr. Dorsey: It doesn’t cost us anything to hold
them. We do hope at some point we can sell them because
everybody’s assessment was based on the ultimate
utilization of all EDU’s that were developed for
the system. But it doesn’t cost us anything to hold
Mrs. Labow: And we can’t sell them back to the facility?
President Guenther: This whole project was based on us
using so many EDU’s. They went and got their financing
to expand their sewer plant in accordance with it. There
ain’t no giving back. It is over and done with, I
wasn’t here at the time, and maybe Steve could address
this a little bit better. I believe there was some idea
that we would hold some in reserve as people came along,
especially along the Route 46 corridor, that were going
to build especially commercial establishments that would
need more EDU’s that we would have available for
them at the time.
Mr. Rattner: Two different things. First, you are talking
about the gallonage at the MSA. The gallonage that we pay
is at 75% of what we committed to. Until we go over, we
only pay 75% of the gallons that we actually purchased.
That was the total cost of the project to put the pipes
in the ground. If you go back into our Code and look at
the way we set up the rates for EDU’s we actually
have an escalator in there because we realize that if we
sell an EDU five years from when the project went in, we
had the carrying costs and I believe we put in a factor
of 10 percent a year. If you have a vacant spot which would
have cost you about $10,000 at the time of the Sewer Project
going in. I believe if you want to buy an EDU today because
you didn’t purchase it, it would cost $12,000 or
$13,000. That was built in recognizing the cost of money
figuring eventually there will be other development maybe
expansion on Route 46 and some other areas that will need
EDU’s. Just like this project that you heard that
we are discussing. They are going to have to buy a whole
lot of EDU’s.
Mrs. Labow: Just bare with me on this question. The amount
of EDU’s all total, and you are saying the cost was
factored in, it was averaged out amongst all the residents
who had to put sewers in. In essence, all of us are paying
a portion of those EDU’s so when they do get used
would there be a surplus?
Mr. Rattner: The reason why we haven’t had a deficit
is because there is a certain amount of people for whatever
reason decided to pay their assessment in total right at
the onset. Also with land transfers, a majority of Mortgage
companies will make you clean up any prior liens which
means that if you sell your house a lot of times, so that
was there, looking forward we’ll be selling and we
do sell a certain amount of EDU’s each year. The
escalator is in there, and so we’ll probably be okay.
If we never sell them, we could have a problem on the end
and it would just an amount that would be added in to the
user fee to cover the cost on the EDU's.
Mrs. Labow: The other thing I have, about the senior development,
since I live right there, and Bernie you had come across
the same thing a few years ago when you were campaigning
that development up there, the people have a terrible time
getting out of that development. They can’t make
a left hand turn going out, coming in. The State won’t
come in and put in a traffic light because the words that
I heard from the people is they haven’t been enough
casualties, a certain number of people have to die before
it is appropriate to put a light in. So now you are looking
at this section to put in this 330 units where these people
who want to come there to turn into their development can’t
make a left, so where are they going to go, they are going
to go down to Netcong Road, turn around and then come back.
President Guenther: The point that the Mayor made is well
taken too. You have a choice, if you put in lets say a
strip mall, you’ll probably have just as much traffic
and again you’d have to get in the specifics of the
You can’t deny a landowner the ability to develop
the property according to the zoning. You can’t deny
an application based on traffic, the way I understand it.
Mr. Dorsey: I wouldn’t be so fast to say that because
you can’t deny a developer the right to develop.
On the other hand, a developer can lock himself in because
that tract should have been combined with the ITC South
tract so that it had access to the Connector Road and that
was not arranged, apparently by choice by the then owner
and sometimes you can lock yourself in because they are
talking about a significant amount of development which
clearly, as I understand it, is only going to have one
way in and out.
Mrs. Labow: The other question I have is when you talk
about if it were to be rezoned and he was able to put this “senior
development” in, can we by law say that there can
only be people of a certain age that can live there. Are
you allowed to say that?
President Guenther: It’s being done all over the
State. I don’t know, John can correct me on this.
I’ve heard that if somebody really wanted to challenge
that, there’s a possibility of overturning it. That
it could be considered discriminatory but it’s never
been done anywhere.
Mrs. Labow: I was at a Planning Board meeting, Rob, do
you remember that tract, that one guy came in and he wanted
to have it rezoned. They were talking about a senior development
right there by Love Lane I guess it was.
Mr. Greenbaum: Yes, I remember that. It was an Industrial
Mrs. Labow: And the thing was, it was an Industrial Zone.
Mr. Greenbaum: I forget what old facility used to be there.
Mrs. Labow: And the question came up and it was, how can
you prevent (Dynapac) people from coming in and bring it,
you know a two bedroom, you can come in and bring a family
in. So we don’t know. Is there a law that we, John?
John can you have a senior citizen development and tell
people, say someone 35 years old wanted to buy a unit in
there and, can you say, well no, you can’t because
you are not a senior?
Mr. Dorsey: It’s done all the time. It’s done
by age restriction in the ordinance and it is done by age
restriction in the master deed for a particular site. It
is done all the time.
Mrs. Labow: Okay, I just didn’t know if you were
allowed to do that. Okay, thanks.
Dave Jones, Rt. 46, Budd Lake: Rather than restrict the
price of the units, couldn’t you restrict the square
footage of the units possibly?
Mr. Dorsey: Yes, you can absolutely I restrict the square
footage for the units but the problem is to build a decent
amount of square feet at a price that can be afforded by
a senior in Mount Olive. That’s the real difficult
part of the equation.
Mr. Jones: I noticed that most of them were 1,800 square
Mr. Greenbaum: They ranged and Hovanian was going to go
back and see if there were smaller buildings that they
had which could accommodate smaller units, therefore, producing
more affordable units on the site than the larger 2,600
square feet. I think, basically, you are correct; the smallest
unit was 1,600 or 1,800 square feet.
Mr. Jones: That’s pretty big, huh Bernie?
President Guenther: No, that is sort of medium sized.
Mr. Jones: For seniors.
President Guenther: Lifestyles have changed. What was
considered large 20 years ago isn’t considered large
today. People want more comforts. They want a larger kitchen.
They want a larger master bath so you tend to have more
square footage. People want more amenities than they use
to have in the past.
Mr. Greenbaum: It’s an interesting issue that you’ve
raised but I think the problem with restricting the size
of the unit is that then you have a less profitable development.
You end up with more of a garden apartment feel, less amenities.
I’m not sure in accomplishes the goal. In my mind,
I think we are sitting here with one that we are going
to approve or not approve the zoning change. If we approve
the zoning change, it is going to be a market based sale.
Unfortunately, that is what it is going to be but I’m
not sure that legally we can really do anything even if
we limit the size of the units that is something I have
to think about more because I hadn’t thought about
it before. I’m not sure that you are going to end
up with the type of community that’s worth changing
the zoning ordinance for.
President Guenther: Anyone else, I’ll close it to
the public. Final Council Comments?
COUNCIL COMMENTS – None
President Guenther: We now will have an Executive Session
dealing with Land Acquisition and Contract Negotiations.
There will be no public business conducted after the close
of that Executive Session.
Motion made and seconded to go into Closed Session for
purposes of Negotiations for Land Acquisition & Contract
Negotiations. All in favor, none opposed, the Executive
Session commenced at 9:00 pm and finished at 10: 25 pm.
Motion to Adjourn made and seconded. All in favor, none
opposed, the meeting adjourned at 10:26 pm.
Bernhard D. Guenther
I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount
Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a
true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally
convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly
held on July 8, 2003
LISA M. LASHWAY
Mount Olive Township Clerk