Township Council Minutes
April 08, 2003
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women
fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives
defending the freedom we all enjoy
OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT ANNOUNCEMENT
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice
of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily
Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey,
and notices were sent to those requesting the same.
ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Spino, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum,
Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
ALSO PRESENT: Mayor Paul Licitra; Cynthia Spencer, Business
Administrator; Sherry Jenkins, CFO; Lisa Lashway, Township
Clerk; John Dorsey, Township Attorney.
Questions on Bill List?
Turkey Brook Park Project Status
President Guenther: We will start since we see our Township
Engineer here this evening. This ties in with the Turkey
Brook Status report. But the specific incident we had last
Friday, I want him to give a report on what happened later
Gene Buczynski, Township Engineer: Good evening, I also
have one other report to give you to about something else
we discussed last week. I’ll tell you what I know
of it, last Friday I received a call at 4:30 from Linda
in the Public Works Department saying that there was a
problem with water, with silt going into Budd Lake. Phone
calls went back and forth between myself, Mark, and Jim
that day. I also called the Soil Conservation District
and made them aware of it, Joe Dunn was on his way home,
he stopped by to look at it also. I know from the Town’s
standpoint Mark followed up with the procedure of contacting
people from the Budd Lake Committee and what have you.
As far as what happened, unbeknownst to us, on Friday Kyle
Conti opened up the outlet structure and basically took
three of three orifices from the detention basin to slowly
let water out. One of the things he has to do in the spring
now is to empty the detention basin, clean out all the
silt and then stabilize the bottom so that it is ready
for the park opening and ready to put more water in. We’re
not aware of him opening it up and taking the plugs out
that morning. I had a man on the site about 9:00 myself
who goes there everyday just to see how many people are
on the site logging that in. There was just landscapers
there that morning and nobody advised him that they are
going to do anything at the base and Cindy had mentioned
to me that all they knew is Monday he was going to start
pumping out the basin. I spoke to Kyle afterwards, his
thought was it settled all winter and he figured he was
just going to open it over the weekend and just let it
drain. Unfortunately he did not use any environmental bag,
which he should have utilized which he did not. I think
what happens is when you have three orifices even though
it may have been quiet and settled when you have water
coming in from three locations to really start everything,
the soil and everything basically just causing silt and
yellow water coming out. I have spoken to him since then
and he is going to have an environmental bag in the site,
when he pumps it out, he was going to start that today,
but of course with the snow storm yesterday he is not going
to start that until next Monday. That is kind of the quick
summary, if there are any questions. It is something that
could have been avoided if he were to use an environmental
bag instead of just trying to open up. I think his thought
was it was clear, it was quiet, that if he opened up the
three plugs it would not have caused any problems and it
did. I supposed he opened them about 10:00 am in the morning.
We really didn’t know about it until about 4:30 in
the afternoon. I think at that point on the right methods
were taken care of. I wish he would work as fast as Jim
Lynch would work when there is a problem because Conti
never showed up to the site and Jim was able pretty much
to get it under control by about 7:00 or 7:30 that night
with some interventions because two of the plugs did not
work properly. That’s the story.
Mr. Rattner: The first thing I do want to say and you
mentioned Jim, I’ve heard in fact that Soil Conservation
is extremely impressed I don’t know if he jumped
into water or how he did it but he was able to stop it
up because at least he took action. I heard Kyle Conti
refused to come back and close it off, at least that is
the way I…
Mr. Buczynski: I personally never got to talk to him about
Mr. Rattner: I did hear that Jim went and used traffic
cones and other stuff and was able to block it up and stop
the silt. I mean it was great that he was cleaning up the
silt by putting it in the lake. I think what he should
be required to do is go by what’s commonly referred
to as cowboy’s beach, the one by Route 46 on the
start of Sandshore Road because there has already been
a lot even prior that has been dumped in here. It is very
shallow because of all the dirt and he should be required
to clean some of that up. Kyle Conti and his father’s
firm are very well known and one of the most knowledgeable
in this State. He has a reputation, they know what they
are doing, and he knows what he should have had; the filtering
of the environmental bag or anything else. He probably
knows, he should have told somebody, but he didn’t
because he thought he could do it real simple and quickly.
We should have to hold their feet to the fire because we
know that there was a certain amount of silt. Some of that
mud you could see was all the way down to Lakeview Drive
and down that way so a lot went into the lake and it just
gets frustrating when somebody appears to be keep doing
this to us. I don’t think it was an accident. He
is a known contractor, they have what, forty or fifty years
of experience in total working in the whole state. He knew
exactly what he was doing. He was there at 9:00 in the
morning. Your inspector was there at 9:00 and he says he
opened it up at 10:00. That tells me it was planned that
way. Because if they opened it up your guy would have said
something, but I think he should be required, I don’t
know what it would take, to clean out some of that silt
that is coming out under the road there and filling in
that beach. Our residents should not have to put up with
Mr. Scapicchio: I am not going to repeat everything Mr.
Rattner said, but I am in total agreement with his opinion.
Mr. Greenbaum: If he is not going to be prepared to clean
it up then we need to go against his insurance company
because that seems to be negligence to me at a minimum.
So we have a claim for whatever cleanup costs against his
insurance company. Second, I am concerned as we move towards
completion of the park with regard to any activities that
will affect offsite activity, such as, when we start up
the pumps, have the pumps been started?
Mr. Buczynski: Not yet.
Mr. Greenbaum: So the pumps, anything that is going to
leave that particular tract I think requires special attention
on Schoor DePalma’s part at this point. I don’t
want to have to come back and deal with other issues off-site
as a result of things that we are doing in the park.
Mrs. Miller: I am sure that if this was a developer we
have some sort of enforcement or fines that would be issued.
I would like to give fines to Conti for doing this without
advising our inspectors and doing it over a weekend.
Mr. Buczynski: I don’t know what fines we could
actually impose on him.
Mrs. Miller: Well there must be something.
Mr. Rattner: Mrs. Miller, the problem being and I got
this secondhand about what Mr. Dunn said, he said that
the owner is the one that gets the fine, he would like
to issue a fine, but the only place he could issue a fine
is to the owner. We are the owner.
Mrs. Miller: That’s the contractor that is responsible
so we could go after him.
Mr. Rattner: That becomes a civil offense; you are talking
about the fine for violating some work. It would be the
developer, not the contractor who would get the summons;
I think Mr. Dorsey probably would concur with that. I don’t
think we are going to force the issue. The Township of
Mount Olive is going to get a fine that we are going to
have to pay.
Mr. Buczynski: I think probably the best thing at this
point would be to follow what the Council has said. I could
draft a letter to Conti telling him it was discussed at
the Council meeting and I am very concerned regarding the
silt into the lake and he has to proceed with some action
at the park down by Sandshore Road.
Mr. Rattner: We are lucky it happened this time of year.
The last time we had, because of another issue, it was
because of whether beyond control when we had the last
silt that went in, I think everybody remembers we had a
major fish kill. We are lucky that at this time of year,
the fish probably aren’t active so it probably did
not cause a big problem.
Mr. Buczynski: You’re limited probably to what you
do at Cowboy Park or whatever it is before you are going
to say you need DEP permits and things of that nature.
Mr. Rattner: They put the dirt there. When you tell me
that their program was to pump it out of the filter.
They decided to take the easy way out and pull a plug
and maybe no body will notice before a weekend and dump
it into a lake, to me it is very very plain. I remember
we had those issues on a smaller scale with the sewer
project; some people with lower level lots. They dug
a hole to put their pipe connection in, filled up with
water so they just pulled the plug and they let it go
in the sewer line which causes a lot of problems later
on. We caught them where we could. This is just a bigger
deal because it was going into the lake.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don’t believe it was accidental
Mr. Rattner: I don’t either. That was my point.
I just want to again acknowledge we have an employee, Jim
Lynch, every week it just astounds me what he gets himself
involved with. I just want to personally thank him for
doing that because I am very concerned about the lake and
that is going way beyond.
Mrs. Miller: Bernie, I do have one other point. I know
our business administrator told me the Budd Lake Beautification
Committee was also notified as was discussed at our emergency
management meeting last week.
Mrs. Spencer: The process that we have developed was actually
used and it was used effectively. Mark DiGennaro called
the Lake Association as soon as he had full details about
what was taking place and what actions we were going to
take and then Jim followed up at the end of his stop gap
measures and let the Lake Association what had been done.
Mrs. Miller: Are they going to provide input as to perhaps
ways to prevent this?
Mr. Buczynski: As far as the way to prevent it, it is
just to do it the right way the first time. When Linda
called me I said hec, we’re not doing any work out
there that would cause any erosion going into Budd Lake.
My first thought was evidently they have an environmental
bag and that’s where everything came up. It’s
very fine material and even though it might look like it
is clear, once you start causing a vortex situation with
three pipes, you are going to start silting and mucking
it all up. It can look worse than it is. I know it was
pretty bad though. It could get yellow with just a bunch
of fine particles. Who knows how much actually went in
as solids but something definitely went into the lake.
Mrs. Miller: That goes down our storm drains to the lake,
Mr. Buczynski: Yes. And there is a combination too with
Mrs. Miller: So all those storm drains need to be cleaned
Mr. Buczynski: Not really. You have to realize, probably
some of the silt even added up on the way down because
every winter you have say the first flush of the spring,
those inlets get filled up with grits and stuff from wintertime
so this water with constant flow for six or eight hours
I am sure I took some of that with it. It is just normal
if you have something like that. It is just like if you
had a major rain, the first time it is going to carry some
of that out with you. If we are done with the lake, the
other issue I wanted to give you an update on, remember
last week when I talked to you about the change order for
Conti and we had one item that was outstanding still $6,375.00
relative to a disagreement he and I have pertaining to
the wet tap and the size they used because in fact we have
to get another one because we have the wrong size. He called
up today and he said it is zero. We have the right size;
his contract ordered the wrong size. For once the plans
were correct and he is just zeroing that change order so
that was another $6,000 that they see as a zero item right
Mr. Rattner: I don’t think he wanted to talk to
Mr. Buczynski: He didn’t call me; he actually talked
to my assistant.
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie are we going to authorize Gene
to send Kyle Conti a letter stating we want that section
of the lake cleaned up.
Mr. Buczynski: I’ll just do it. That is part of
Mr. Scapicchio: Thanks Gene.
President Guenther: Cindy, is there anything else regarding
Turkey Brook we forgot?
Mrs. Spencer: In relationship to Consolidated Building
Corporation, the footings and foundation are completed
for the baseball tower building. The footings and foundation
are 70% completed for the soccer restroom building, they
have one additional day’s work to complete this.
The next step is to backfill the foundation walls, but
this cannot be done until the soil dries out. So, given
the weather today and predictions for the remainder of
this week, it looks like the earliest they can be back
on site is Friday, but probably not until Monday. There
are two weeks of plumbing work scheduled and that should
start next Tuesday. The President, Tom Loredo believes
he is in very good shape to move forward quickly, but
is currently being hampered by the weather. To bring
you up to date on what Kyle Conti did achieve last week
before this mishap, they had worked from Flanders Road
entrance way back through the loop road, they are hand
raking and clearing debris, rock – seeding and
placing hay on non-athletic areas. The conduit for both
well pumps is in. They placed infield mix on the baseball
fields. They are planning to hand grade the fields as
soon as the snow melts. Then they will be ready to sod
those fields. The football goal posts are being replaced.
The manufacturer was on site, it was a defective part
so they will be replacing those goal posts. They have
been clearing drains of washout materials from areas
where seed did not take over winter, so they have been
shoveling that debris out of the piping. They met with
the landscaper to discuss the tree replacements needed
and completion of the landscape plan. They did additional
grading work, over by the detention pond, the northwest
corner of the property and finally they are working on
removing the debris and spread top soil over the area
on the right side of the Seward mansion .With respect
to the barn, if we do the roof in-house, we can get materials
for approximately $700.00 from a local vendor for the
roofing materials, so we would literally be paying the
vendor cost to put that new roof on. Window replacements
are 50% completed, work is on-going and he is happy in
that all the new equipment has arrived.
Mr. Rattner: I have one question regarding the roof, if
we went outside and had it contracted, what is the savings
by doing it ourselves. I am concerned about having people
that are not used to it that high off the ground working
on a roof. Do we have a rough estimate if we asked the
contractor to do the whole thing? I like doing things in
house, but I also want to be reasonable and make sure we
are not exceeding the capabilities of some of the people.
I don’t want them to risk their safety.
Mr. Lynch: I called today just to get a rough price for
the materials. We could always purchase the materials and
contract the work out after buying them. It would save
us to buy them at cost instead of paying for a middleman
to deal with the materials. We’ll look at it, I just
haven’t gotten quotes back yet.
Mr. Rattner: You understand what my concern is. I like
the idea of what you are doing, but that to me is a little
bit more specialized than being that high off the ground.
I don’t want to risk the safety of any of our employees,
not to save a couple of pennies or dollars.
Mr. Lynch: Absolutely. I will have quotes and I will be
back for that.
Mr. Scapicchio: Jim, what has to be done with the roof?
Mr. Lynch: The asphalt shingles on the barn have pretty
much reached the end of their useful life span. It is a
single roof. It would just have to be torn off. The sheeting
is still good, it would just be a straight reroof.
Mr. Scapicchio: How many square feet is that roof? Do
Mr. Lynch: The numbers are in my office. Off the top of
my head I would not be comfortable.
Mr. Rattner: You are a contractor, Mr. Scapicchio; you
have to have a certain amount of dexterity to stay on the
roof without falling off. I wouldn’t do stuff like
Mr. Scapicchio: Retail value of a rip off roof for that
would probably be in the neighborhood of $300.00 for a
rip off and a reroof. $300.00 for 100 square feet. But
if Jim feels he has the capability in house, and that is
their recommendation, I won’t have a problem with
President Guenther: I have a question since I see Gene
in the audience. Some time ago I had a discussion with
Chuck McGroarty about the highway access plan. Do you have
any word on that at all, Gene?
Mr. Buczynski: I don’t. I haven’t talked to
Chuck at all about it.
President Guenther: I think we are going to try to get
that moving along with the State and see where that stood
because that was instrumental. Now the highway access plan,
I think it was just for Route 46, or maybe it was for both
routes, but we were trying to get that going with State.
For some reason maybe it has been put on the back burner,
maybe with the change of administration last year.
Mr. Buczynski: There is a State Highway Access Plan which
classifies Route 46 and what future improvements will be
to Route 46, long range. As far as trying to implement
it, that is really up to the State, I am not sure what
we can really do. I could speak to Chuck and get a little
more about what you might have talked to him about. I am
not sure what we could really do at this point.
President Guenther: I had the impression and he said,
that there is a program where we could go to the state
and get this highway access plan approved. He claims that
really only one other town in New Jersey has done it for
whatever the reason is. This was an idea of his that he
came up with two or three years ago. I picked up on it
again, especially with Route 46 and not having any shoulders
for whatever the reason is being very constricted on the
properties and what you can do with them. He brought up
as an idea of making a more recent development along Route
46 to provide proper access, ingress and egress for everything
that has developed along the highway.
Mr. Buczynski: I know what you are talking about. As far
as doing something separate for Mt. Olive which might be
a little bit different from the approved plan. We met with
the State a year and a half ago and they were supposed
to get back to us and it kind of died there. There was
a big gung ho, let’s do it right away attitude. We
met with them and then it died on their part. It kind of
went in the back room, I know what you are talking about.
Mr. Greenbaum: Are we still under old business, Bernie?
I would like to have the Old Municipal Building Project
listed as an old business item on a going forward basis
so that it is on the agenda.
President Guenther: Yes, while he brings that up, the
last time we did request Gene, if you could get something
from the State in writing.
Mr. Buczynski: I wrote and faxed the letter to Lisa today
confirming the discussions about the meeting held about
two weeks ago.
Mrs. Miller: As long as he has brought that up, I noticed
that in the letter, second page it says that in accordance
that if the applicant proposes to change the use of the
existing municipal building to a hospital, clinic, nursing
home, school daycare facility or any other similar structure,
the new building must also have at least one more driveway
access route elevated to or above the regulatory flood
elevations. I don’t remember discussing that.
Mr. Buczynski: I confirmed what was discussed. What they
discussed, basically at that point he pulled out the regulations,
the regulations talk about all those different types of
Mrs. Miller: Who is they?
Mr. Buczynski: The DEP, when we met with the DEP.
Mrs. Miller: But this is a letter to the DEP.
Mr. Buczynski: It’s the DEP confirming the meeting
from two weeks ago and that was discussed at the meeting.
Basically what they did was they pulled out the regulations.
Mrs. Miller: I was under the impression this was what
the Council discussed.
Mr. Buczynski: No. We weren’t to discuss what we
could do and couldn’t do.
Mrs. Miller: Because we never discussed this.
Mr. Rattner: No. We are not considering a hospital. Not
even an animal one.
President Guenther: I noticed also your request to the
State to do another traffic study on Connelly Ave.
Mr. Buczynski: It took several weeks to actually get them
to call me back and then they called me back and talked
about what needed to be done and I was able to get the
updated traffic reports. There were quite a few accidents
from 2001 until now, probably on the average, maybe once
a month. A lot of them were left turns from what I looked
at. Hopefully that will have some bearing on them. He gave
me some preliminary information. They still are not going
to warrant the light. I asked them to look at the information
and we will be glad to meet you again.
President Guenther: Thanks, Gene.
Mr. Scapicchio: Gene I haven’t seen it for myself,
but I have heard secondhand that the cul-de-sac at the
north end of Flanders-Netcong Road and International Drive
South has been opened, that gate.
President Guenther: I am not aware of that. Up by Goldmine
Mr. Scapicchio: On the State Trooper side. I haven’t
seen it myself, but neighbors have told me.
Mr. Buczynski: Okay.
President Guenther: By whom Dave?
Mr. Scapicchio: I don’t know.
Mr. Buczynski: That’s interesting because there
is construction on these out parcels like Chili’s & Macaroni
Grill, of course that is right near there and I am not
sure somebody tried to get trucks in that way.
Mr. Scapicchio: Like I said, I have heard that secondhand.
Mr. Rattner: I believe the lock on Goldmine Road up on
my end was actually cut at one time and had to be replaced.
Mr. Buczynski: Maybe that is what happened. Who knows?
President Guenther: Also, I just also heard that Chili’s
opened without a CO?
Mrs. Spencer: They are doing hiring and things without
President Guenther: Any other old business. Anything for
President Guenther: How about new business?
Mr. Greenbaum: I have asked Lisa to get in touch with
Mr. Dorsey’s office concerning rescinding of the
cluster ordinance which is included in our current Land
Use and I have asked that be listed for the next workshop
Mr. Dorsey: Well I will tell you what all of you on the
Council already know, last Monday the Mount Olive Complex
case which is a career case of over an eight year period
came to a final conclusion. The Supreme Court rejected
the second petition for certification filed by Mount Olive
Complex which in essence ended the litigation once and
for all. It is kind of amazing in this litigation because
this litigation started in 1995 and in 1998 through the
insistence of Councilman Spino, the Township rather fearlessly
and recklessly, increased the zoning on this property from
two acres to five acres and that in the end became the
central focus of the litigation, ultimately resulting in
a 47 page opinion written by Judge Harvey in the Appellate
Division which I dare say will become a landmark decision
in terms of the use by the Township of the State Development
and Redevelopment Plan as a justification for what it had
done and of course we are deeply indebted to Jay Lynch
who was the Planning Consultant I think in Mount Olive
for 27 years and to Chuck McGroarty for his fine work,
undoing the testimony by their expert. Lisa was a great
help, Gene was a great help, coming to court whenever we
needed him to testify on matters. I finally thought that
the anecdote to this litigation was that the Reporter for
the Daily Record after she learned about the decision called
me and then she tried to contact somebody at Mount Olive
Complex. First she called Sal Garafolo, who is the managing
partner, he refused to respond, she then called the attorney
from Mount Olive Complex, Bruce Snyder, he refused to respond,
then she called an administrative assistant in their home
office in Short Hills, he was not responding and they referred
her to the sewer operator at their plant. So it is a significant
decision in terms of Mount Olive because there were some
downsides. There were some real issues in this case, they
sued for several million dollars in damages on the basis
that they had installed significant improvements beyond
which they were permitted to develop. They had given 30
acres to the beautiful middle school that is across the
street from us here. They sued for a builder’s remedy
under a 1983 agreement and through the insistence of again,
Earl and Barbara Swasey as a matter of fact, in 1987 we
terminated their rights under a 1971 preliminary approval,
in which whether it was thought or not I specifically advised
them that time that the Council had taken that action,
and they foolishly failed to appeal the action at that
time and then it was the rezoning in the midst of the litigation
which become the central point of the appeal in which we
were finally successful. It does involve 1200 acres, right
next store, down the street. Mr. Dorsey (cont’):
The Mayor will be happy, the last time he asked how many
times did he get to appeal, which to me was the same as
asking how many more times did he get to bill me on this
case. There is no more. There are no more avenues of appeal,
and there are no more bills in connection with this litigation.
Number two, the suit started by Caro in connection with
the Wild Geese Mall in which we had a problem, because
Parker Publications had not published the notice of final
adoption when forwarded to it in a timely fashion by Lisa
and they started the suit, they have now backed off, swamped
with paper discovery. The interesting thing is today that
Russ Brown called me and AIG/ Baker, with whom we seem
to be in another funning battle over the last two months,
and advised that AIG/ Baker had advised Chili’s without
a CO, and most importantly they had occupied it without
the inspection and final approval of the fire prevention
sub-code official. A rather important inspection from the
standpoint that this is a place of public accommodation
and he has placed me on notice that they are in violation
and we will proceed from there. So, that is all I have
President Guenther: Thank you. I do have one question
that I received in my in box, an attached State of New
Jersey Senate Bill number 169, it says as per the Mayor’s
request it was attached; Cindy do you know any particular
reason the Mayor had for this? This is the legislation
that suggests a fund, a levy of .10, I believe it is for
1,000 gallons of water usage, to create a fund for the
New Jersey Clean Water Trust fund Act. Any particular reason
for attaching this? Does he want to put this on the agenda
Mrs. Spencer: To tell you the truth, I was out of town,
and I am unfamiliar with it, I haven’t seen it.
President Guenther: I think we should look at it in detail,
I think there are obvious pros and cons to this.
Mr. Spino: After I read it I would think that we would
want to talk about it. It seems like something that Mount
Olive might want to do. It really only has to do, from
what I understand of it, is very large users.
President Guenther: Anyone that had gotten a DEP water
Mr. Spino: That means a large user.
President Guenther: Absolutely.
Mr. Spino: Since they are using and taking our water,
I think that may be something we want to look at, because
the money goes into a fund and that is the part that interests
me, is it goes into a fund for low cost loans, I don’t
remember it saying grants, but low cost loans to communities
who want to use that money to protect their waterways,
either lakes, inlets, there is whole list of things that
you could do with the money if you want to.
President Guenther: Now what it says here, the proceeds
of funds shall be used for State water resources and water
quality projects and to provide grants and low interest
loans to assist local governing units in funding water
resources and water quality projects. What I have a problem
with is that it is going to be administered by the DEP.
Mr. Spino: Well, I guess you have to take some bad with
President Guenther: It sounds like we are going to have
a full agenda on the 22nd, the workshop. We are going to
discuss the sign ordinance; we are going to have a discussion
that Rob has brought up. I suggest holding it off until
the May meeting, because I think those subjects are going
to take up a lot of time.
Mr. Spino: At the same time we should keep track of where
it is in the Senate. If it goes to committee and gets revoked
before we discuss it, we’ll lose whatever…
Mr. Dorsey: There is no rush because they are on adjournment
now for the budget. Well I wrote you all a letter in connection
with Interverse. Do we wish to proceed?
President Guenther: Yes.
Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think we’ll ever be in
a better position, that’s not to say we are in a
100% position at any time.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS:
February 11, 2003 Present: Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Greenbaum,
Mr. Spino, Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Guenther (late).
Absent: Mrs. Miller, Mr. Rattner
March 18, 2003 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mrs. Miller, Mr.
Spino, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Scapicchio,
Absent: Mr. Perkins
April 1, 2003 cs Present: President Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio,
Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Spino, Mrs. Miller, Mr.
Mr. Scapicchio made a motion that we approve the Minutes
and Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously with the exception of Mr.
Ratter and Mrs. Miller, abstained on
February 11, 2003, & Mr. Perkins abstained on March 18, 2003.
Letters from Residents
1. Letter received April 3, 2003, from Susan K. Sunny
of 241 Flanders Netcong Road regarding Requested Parking
Restrictions – Flanders Netcong Road.
Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from Other Municipalities
2. Letter received March 10, 2003, from the County of
Sussex regarding the Highlands Stewardship Act.
3. Ordinance received March 31, 2003, from Washington
Township regarding Land Use.
4. Proclamation received April 1, 2003, from the Township
of Hanover regarding honoring the members of the United
States Armed Forces.
League of Municipalities
5. E-mail received March 21, 2003, from the New Jersey
State league of Municipalities regarding CAP Relief, Non
Conforming Uses Legislation and FEMA Reimbursement for
6. Letter received April 3, 2003, from the New Jersey
State League of Municipalities regarding League Seminar.
7. Letter received April 4, 2003, from the New Jersey
State League of Municipalities regarding League Dinner.
MSA / MUA
8. Letter received April 1, 2003, from the Musconetcong
Sewerage Authority regarding a list of allocations for
the participating municipalities in the 3.803 MGD Water
Pollution Control Plant.
9. Letter received March 24, 2003, from the State of New
Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding US Route
46 Intersection of Drakestown Road.
10. Penalty Assessment received April 2, 2003, from the
State of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
regarding Notice to right of Hearing.
11. Letter received March 26, 2003, from the State of
New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding
new Stormwater regulations.
12. Letter of Interpretation received March 31, 2003,
from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental
Protection regarding Letter of Interpretation – Line
Verification Applicant Joseph Balk Block 4501; Lot 2 (113
13. Letter received March 31, 2003, from McDonough & Rea
Associates regarding street intersection and lot subdivision
application for access of Lot 12 in Block 9001 Located
in Roxbury Township.
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards
14. Letter received March 24, 2003, from the State of
New Jersey, Victims of Crime Compensation Board regarding
3rd Annual Victims Rights Summit.
15. Letter received March 24, 2003, from the Mount Olive
Township Historical Society regarding cleaning up of Baptist
16. Minutes received March 26, 2003, from the Morris County
Planning Board regarding the February 20th meeting.
17. Letter received March 26, 2003, from the Morris County
Mosquito Extermination Commission regarding Application
for Freshwater Wetlands General Permit and Stream Encroachment
Permit for Water Management Activities for the purpose
of mosquito control in various waterways in Morris County.
18. Newsletter received April 1, 2003, from Council on
Affordable Housing regarding Certification of two Municipalities,
Trenton’s RCA Recipient Certification Status Extended,
Salem City Amendment and Election of COAH Officers for
19. Letter received April 1, 2003, from Alliance for Action
regarding the Morris County Alliance for Action Chapter
Utilities / Cable
20. Letter received March 24, 2003, from R.S. Webb & Associates
regarding FCC Telecommunications Tower Project.
21. Fax received April 3, 2003, from Comcast regarding
Demonstrations and New Advanced Services.
Letters from Legislative Representatives
22. Letter received March 25, 2003, from Rodney Frelinghuysen
regarding supporting our troops.
23. E-mail received April 4, 2003, from Congressman Frelinghuysen
regarding Emergency War Time Supplemental Budget.
President Guenther: Does anybody have any questions on
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, are you going to address letter
President Guenther: It’s up to you; if you want
to address it, address it. Why don’t I let Lisa give
an update regarding the discussion she had with Mrs. Sunny.
Mrs. Lashway: She had called me and told me what the problem
was and I gave her a history on the whole issue. Bernie,
I directed her to write that letter to the Council. She
had called out Officer Scott Van Ness. She is very reasonable
and she only wants to prohibit the parking in front of
her driveway and her mailbox. But she does work out of
the home and can’t get deliveries. Scott Van Ness
told her to call the County, the County said that they
would ask for a letter or a resolution/ordinance from the
Township before they would consider it. Bernie, you and
I discussed it today and you said to list it for the workshop
on the 22nd ?
President Guenther: Based on the report, do you feel we
need to discuss this at a workshop further? Or if everybody
agrees, just to send the County a letter. I don’t
think it needs any further discussion if we are all in
agreement with that.
Mrs. Lashway: If a letter is not sufficient and they require
an ordinance then we will bring an ordinance before you.
Mr. Greenbaum: I just wanted to comment on the first item
of correspondence before we move from the subject. I had
driven by and actually saw the cars parked. It is not the
same type of situation as within an actual residential
community on that particular stretch of road where the
course of parking is actually a very wide shoulder that
has Mr. Greenbaum (cont’d): delineated from the roadway
surface. To me it appeared to be the most appropriate parking
area of all the areas that we have dealt with. I thought
it was a little bit different. Now we only have one person
who is objecting to the parking in that particular area,
one person that I know of.
President Guenther: Well no, she is not objecting to the
parking in that area, but the post office won’t deliver
the mail to cars that are blocking the way. I think she
has a legitimate gripe.
Mr. Greenbaum: I don’t disagree with that. I think
that it should be limited in scope if that is what is being
proposed and rather than prohibiting parking in that entire
Mr. Spino: There is only one house involved on that side
of the street. We could eliminate the parking in front
of her house and on the other side of the street there
are houses also. I don’t know if anybody from that
side has complained yet. It started out with two cars,
and now there are about 14 or 15.
President Guenther: I agree with Rob. The area does lend
itself to that because the shoulder is wide enough and
it does not create a road hazard. On the other hand there
is the other issue which she brought up and has been brought
up and has been brought up before in the hearings we had
before, that it could be a safety issue on the students
actually crossing both roads at certain times. I think
we knew that when we let the thing go by.
Mr. Rattner: I agree with Mr. Greenbaum, that the road
is wide and they delineate the shoulder, but I can understand,
nobody should have their mailbox blocked. However the one
issue I did notice, because I have noticed over the course
of this winter, we have had quite a bit of snow, on our
roads we have an ordinance against parking if the roads
are snow covered. I guess it’s a County road, the
County snow plows, have had a problem going around the
cars sometimes putting up the snow. They can’t clear
the snow all the way off the road because they have to
go around the cars. Maybe we should ask whether they want
the same thing. Only when it’s snow covered, cause
that is a good reason to be able to widen the road.
President Guenther: Do we have a sign on that road, as
we do on some other roads that say no parking at certain
times in the winter months.
Mr. Rattner: We just have a couple signs around in the
beginning of Town. We don’t allow any parking on
any road. That was the compromise we had with the condos
that we only limit winter parking. We had an ordinance
that said no parking on any road from November 1st to April
1st or something like that. We then revised it to say when
roads are snow covered. I just happen to notice that was
an issue sometimes with the County snow plow, so I don’t
know if that would cover ours, or maybe we should ask for
something special on that so that they could widen the
road when they have to. We had a lot of snow this year
and it was a problem for those occurrences.
Mr. King: You have a ordinance that covers cars parked
on the road when it snows so you could issue violations
for that ordinance.
President Guenther: Even on the County Road?
Mr. King: Yes.
Mr. Rattner: Then we should probably look at that. Because
what was an issue is just that. I know on our own roads,
because I listened I heard sometimes that our Road Department
did call and have the police track down the people. I don’t
know if the county did that with our police department
to make a move, so we should make them aware that we do
have that and they could call and we could get it removed.
I think usually what they did is they tried finding the
people and told them to remove their cars.
President Guenther: Let’s see what comes as a result
after the letter is sent. Any other comments on correspondence?
Mrs. Spencer: Item number 20, I think a letter needs to
be sent responding to them that that property would need
a use variance from the Board of Adjustment if they were
to erect the tower.
President Guenther: I will be honest with you. I did not
read that letter, so I don’t know what it says.
Mr. Rattner: I think the Federal Law which frumps a lot
when it talks about communication towers, say that the
town and the limit; they can’t ban them, but they
can limit the areas they are put in and it has to serve
the public good. I think we have done that and we have
non-exclusive usage of some of the Township facilities,
some of our water towers. If this company wants to put
that in, I think we have some leverage if we have room
to make them use one of our existing sites so we don’t
have to build something else, and that is in the Federal
Law and I think maybe Mr. Rattner (cont’d): we could
look that way. It accomplished two things, we get the rental,
and it’s not another piece of property that is going
to be what most people consider to be an eyesore of a tower
that goes up 120 feet.
Mrs. Spencer: They just were advising us that they are
looking to put up a 125 ft. high mono pole for communications
with equipment and cabinets on the bottom and when we did
the research it is in an R-A zone which prohibits communication
President Guenther: What was the location?
Mr. Spino: Oakwood Village.
Mr. Rattner: We have that water tower there, I think we
rent space on.
President Guenther: Is it really necessary to send them
a letter? They should know to get a permit they have to
go through a certain process, do we really need to send
them a letter?
Mrs. Spencer: They are kind of writing to the Township
Clerk as is if this is starting to process, so obviously
they are not fully aware of what the process is, obviously
suggesting that we advise them as to what their options
Mr. Greenbaum: I agree, I think Mr. Dorsey’s office
should write the letter and especially in light of Mr.
Rattner’s comments, that we may be able to use this
to the benefit of the Township.
Mr. King: You see, what will happen is their rngineer
will say that this is what they want to do, and requires
coverage in certain locations, as long as there is other
alternative locations and the one as Mr. Rattner said can
work, you can limit them to that location.
President Guenther: There is a letter, I am looking here,
I don’t see it in the list. There is a letter from
Attorney Larry Fox, this didn’t make the list about
the acquiring of a certain piece of property. Do you want
to put this on the agenda for the next workshop?
Mr. Spino: That might be in today’s mail.
President Guenther: Yes. Actually it was received yesterday
and it wasn’t on the list. Okay, we can hold off
ORDINANCES FOR PUBLIC HEARING
Ord.#14-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Authorizing and Adopting a Stormwater Management Plan for
the Township of Mount Olive (amended). – S. Rattner
President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ord. #14-2003.
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake : I guess I would like Mr. Buczynski
to come up and explain to you what was discussed between
himself and myself to see if this is agreeable to the Council.
Mr. Buczynski: We had several discussions over the last
couple of weeks and Rich provided me with an insert to
add to page four of the plan. I talked to Rich last week
and again this morning, regarding this, with a couple of
minor changes we can live with it, but it could be incorporated
into page 54 of the plan because page 54 was appendix A
which actually was a copy of the Morris County Stormwater
Ordinance. We can’t really change Morris County Stormwater
Ordinance. They said what we could do, I faxed it to Mr.
King’s office this afternoon, but to take the same
paragraph, I just changed a couple of words from shall
to may. What we want to do is take this and prepare an
ordinance amendment to I believe it is section 400-75E
and to add this as number 11 in the town ordinance and
that would at least make the developer aware of the concern
relative to increased rainfall due to oragraphic lifting
in this area of the State and basically just as an advisory
to consider your designs.
Mr. Spino: Would that make it a possibility and it would
be done at the Planning Board I assume, that the Planning
Board could make them use that.
Mr. Buczynski: We would review the drainage calculations
as far as detention basins go. Then we have to see what
storm they use and where it came from but it would basically
give the public a right to question the applicant and the
applicant’s engineer that did you at least consider
addressing that portion of the ordinance?
Mr. Spino: But if the decision from the Planning Board
says whether you thought about it or not, you decided not
to do it, we are saying that this is our preference. This
is what we want you to do.
Mr. Buczynski: But really what we are telling them, Earl,
is to look at it. We are not telling them what storm to
use, but to look at it and address the situation.
Mr. Greenbaum: Earl, I guess the answer to that question
is that if the Planning Board felt that the local storm
data should be used and ultimately denies the application
or forces the applicant to use that, it be would subject
to the arbitrary and capricious standard and so it would
be at the Planning Board’s discretion whether or
not to require subject to judicial review as long as it
is allowed in our ordinance.
Mr. Perkins: I was just wondering Gene, we are giving
them the option, we are saying we would like for you to
Mr. Buczynski: Basically, I will read the last sentence
which Rich actually prepared. Designers of stormwater management
systems and higher terrain areas of the township should
address these increased requirements as part of the proposed
stormwater management design and I encourage sizing stormwater
management systems appropriately. Now one of the things
I was telling to Rich today too is some detention basins
will be designed for larger storms depending on certain
state requirements. Some detention basins are considered
damns and to consider damns then the design standard is
a one and a half times the normal rainfall, which if you
look at 7.5, one and a half times that you are looking
at ten and a half or 11.25 inches of rain which is pretty
much what he is talking about. Some of this will automatically
cap it just because of the DEP regulations. So it is just
basically looking to see what we have and to work with
Mr. Perkins: I was just wondering, can’t we just
put more teeth into it, say that they must use this where
Mr. Buczynski: I wouldn’t recommend it.
Mr. Perkins: How is the word “should” defined?
Mr. Buczynski: I basically would make the applicants aware
of the concern and we would discuss it. You are getting
back into what data does he really use from the storm.
Where is the published data and you get back into that
discussion. This I thought was a good compromise which
Rich brought up, it gives enough of teeth to make the engineer
at least look at it and address it.
President Guenther: Why don’t you recommend it?
What is your reasoning?
Mr. Buczynski: I don’t really have published data
to utilize to say, and I don’t have a published career
from any respective agency that will show you a 100 year
storm curve. We talked about certain types of rainfall
that were probably in excess of a 100 year storm. You have
to have from a published agency a chart which you don’t
really have other than we have records of certain rainfalls
and certain areas that exceeded, but you don’t have
it equated to us, a certain year storm. I thought this
was a good compromise, I was not the one that actually
put it together, Rich did.
Mr. Perkins: Should and shall, I just wanted to get your
expert opinion on those two words. Thou shall not steal,
but we still have people steal.
Mr. Buczynski: Same thing with should. I think should
still gives you a little bit more of a revisory…
Mr. Bonte: I would certainly like to see it stronger also.
But I recognize and I have been accused on occasions of
not being willing to compromise and this is a case where
I think the compromise on this gets our point forward to
the developers, it allows it to become a discussion point.
It is something we can ask the developers to do for us
and we could look at it on a case by case basis. Possibly
as time goes on, we may be able to make it stronger, five
or ten years out in the future as we see how things progress.
But at least now, it becomes something that we alert the
developers that we are looking for. It could be a discussable
item at the Planning Board which it previously has not
been allowed because we don’t even ask them to look
at it and it is a step in the right direction. I realize
that sometimes things like this take a lot of time to get
implemented with the kind of teeth that we like to put
in it and it might take another 10 years to develop the
kind of data that we need to make it our requirement a
little more stringent. I would like to at least open a
door where we say to developers look, the mountainous areas
of the township, these things happen. They are recognized
throughout the world. We want you to take a look at it
and we are going to discuss it and we may require you to
do something a little more than you are asking. At least
you put them on warning, that we are going to look at that.
Mr. Buczynski: One of the things too in contrast to that,
as we just finish, approve tonight hopefully first reading,
the Stormwater Management Plan, and as we had talked about
it with the Planning Board too, it covers the new regulations
so we are kind of ahead of the game a little bit on that.
The same thing with that, right now you still have the
IRIS standards which govern, but talking to people at DEP;
as these new rules and regulations are going to be quite
more stringent once we adopt the DEP regulations of Phase
II, they are going to supercede IRIS. IRIS is going to
have to come up with some revisions and they are looking
towards more local data. It is going to eventually Mr.
Buczynski (cont’d): evolve where you are going to
see some changes from a public standpoint.
Mr. Bonte: I would like to, if the Council feels that
it’s inclined, amend our stormwater management ordinance
within the next month let’s say, with wording similar
to what I gave out to you all last week. Then I would concur
in the passage of this plan this evening so that we don’t
hold the plan up. I hope that we can move on the other
thing within the next few weeks.
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, that brings me to my question,
is this substantial that we want to just continue this
until the next public meeting or do we want to adopt this?
Mr. Buczynski: There is no changing the plan, that’s
what we talked about. There is no changing the plan. You
can adopt the plan with the ordinance we prepared for tonight.
Mr. Spino: I have no problem with doing this and amending
the ordinance. I would make sure that we try to do that
as soon as we can. We should have that on and have an ordinance
with this amendment in it for approval and pass it.
Mr. Bonte: I want to thank you all for your time and consideration.
President Guenther: Any other comments from the pubic?
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing on
Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ord.
#14-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council Discussion?
Mr. Rattner I think it’s great that Mr. Buczynski
and Mr. Bonte were able to compromise and come up with
something to present to us.
President Guenther: Notice they are not sitting together
Mr. Rattner Yes, but they are dressed the same.
Mr. Perkins: I would like to say that it is refreshing
to see that we have had this discussion especially in light
of how it was brought up. I know during parts of the Crown
Towers hearing it was brought up and not necessarily pushed
aside, but I think this would go along way in helping us
down the road as we address some things at the Planning
Board stage, so I want to thank our engineer as well as
Mr. Bonte for taking the time and getting this brought
President Guenther: Ditto.
ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.
President Guenther declared that Ordinance No. 14-2003
passed on second reading and hereby directed the Clerk
to forward a copy of the same to the Mayor and publish
a notice of adoption as required by law.
Ord.#17-2003Ordinance of the Township Council of the
Township of Mount Olive Amending Chapter 176
Parks, Article I, General Regulations of the Code of the
Township of Mount Olive – “Parks.”
(Guidelines for Use of Parks attached)
Mr. Greenbaum moved for adoption and final passage of Ord.
#17-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Ord. #19-2003An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
Authorizing a Revision to the Code of the
Township of Mount olive, Part I Administrative Legislation
Chapter 4, Administrative Code
Article XV, Budget, Purchasing and Expenditure Section
4-73B and 4-73C Entitled Procedures
President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ord. #19-2003.
Colleen Labow, Budd Lake: Is this the ordinance that you
are talking about where there is a certain amount of
money that can be sent out without further approval from
the Council, was it $2,300 or…
Mr. Rattner: $2,500. This is not changing that, what it
is doing is taking specific items that don’t have
to wait for a public meeting.
Mrs. Labow: Okay, specific items. So if there is a bill
that is more than that, they are not allowed to make two
payments. Like say if it is a $5,000 one, they can’t
make two $2,500 payments?
Mr. Rattner: This was specifically for intergovernmental
payments, things like having to pay the County Taxes, or
the Musconetcong Sewage Authority, property tax refunds,
utility payments, because they give you 10 or 15 days and
they are very large and we don’t want to run into
that. Tax Lien redemptions, which are where somebody is
paying somebody’s taxes. Recreation trips which are
in a trust fund, where the people are paying so they can
pay the bus driver. Postage, because we are paying it only
to the post office and payroll. Payroll, I don’t
believe we have to vote on now. It is only these, it is
very limited and it just makes it so they can operate the
office in efficient manner.
Mrs. Labow: Great thanks.
President Guenther: Any other Comments? Seeing none.
Mrs. Miller moved for adoption and final passage of Ord.
19-2003. Mr. Perkins, seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
President Guenther declared that Ord. #19-2003 is passed
on second reading and hereby directed the Clerk to forward
ac copy to the Mayor and publish a notice of adoption as
required by law.
Ord. #20-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive
to Vacate a Portion of Chelsea Drive.
President Guenther opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2003.
President Guenther closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2003.
Mr. Spino moved for adoption and final passage of #20-2003.
Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.
President Guenther declared Ord. #20-2003 as passed on
Ord.#21-2003 Bond Ordinance Providing a Supplemental Appropriation
of $65,000 for Section 3(A) of Bond Ordinance #37-2002,
Finally Adopted September 24, 2002, for the Purchase of
a Truck for the Budd Lake Fire Department in and by the
Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey
and Authorizing the Issuance of $61,750 Bonds or Notes
of the Township for Financing Part of the Appropriation.
President Guenther opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #21-2003.
President Guenther closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #21-2003.
Mr. Perkins moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance
21-2003. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Council discussion? Mr. Rattner, I
will designate you just to give a quick, just for the sake
of the public, review of why this is being passed.
Mr. Rattner: Last year, we put in last years budget, a
new pumper truck for the Budd Lake Fire Department. I guess
around October when they started putting their bid specs
together, they said after 9/11, they said the amount of
emergency equipment being ordered had greatly increased
and there were a lot of price increases. Not just from
NYC, which lost a lot of vehicles, but also other areas
that were starting to build up and they let us know at
that time that they thought that they were going to be
short. They could make up the money by selling their existing
truck which I think they could get around $50,000 - $65,000,
but the extra amount would have to be put in the capital
appropriation. We told them to go out to bid before we
did anything and just find out exactly what it was going
to cost and I guess they received the bids about a month
ago. It did come up where they thought it was going to
come Mr. Rattner (cont’d): up. We already told them
that we would go ahead and appropriate the money if it
was required which it is and that is what we are doing
now. We will be getting most of that money back when they
sell the existing truck, which I think is about 20 years
old. They think they are actually going to get that much.
When it comes to our public safety, we don’t want
to take a chance. We need the equipment, we need the updated
equipment, also the equipment is safer which protects our
President Scapicchio: Thank you, Mr. Rattner. Council
discussion? Seeing none.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
President Guenther declared Ord. #21-2003 as passed on
ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd Reading April 29, 2003)
Ord.#22-2003 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the
Township of Mount Olive Establishing Salaries
of The Department Heads, Supervisory and Certain Non-Union
Personnel and for the
Employees of the Township Clerk’s Office for the
Mr. Rattner moved that Ordinance #22-2003 be introduced
by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting
be held on April 29, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building,
204 Flanders- Drakestown Road, Mount Olive NJ, for a public
Hearing and consideration of second reading and a passage
of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish,
post and make available said ordinance in accordance with
the requirements of the law.
President Guenther: Council discussion?
Mrs. Miller: I have a problem with Section III, where
it says the Mayor reserves the right to issue a yearly
merit award. There is no amount. I thought we all agreed
that the merit awards were not going to be given this year
and this kind of opens it up to almost any amount. It could
be $10,000 or it could total $110,000.00. I would like
to see Section III omitted. Otherwise I agree with the
salaries that we have, but I don’t agree with that
President Guenther Any other comments?
Mr. Rattner: I did not get the memo to the Administration
until this afternoon. Last week when we were discussing
this in workshop, at the Mayor’s request, we said
that we would discuss, at a later time, the position of
the assistant Tax Collector and the salary range and he
agreed to take that off. I noticed that is still in the
listing showing that range. We said we would have it later.
We have enough money in a salary adjustment account, so
if later on we decided to take some sort of action that
would not be an issue. I believe we took the extra stipend
for passing tests, off the table at this point to discuss
at a later time. That was actually at the Mayor’s
request to move the rest of the salaries moving forward.
Mrs. Spencer: Actually, we had understood it and maybe
this is incorrect, was that we were to move that $7,500.00
into a salary adjustment account which has been done in
the Budget and the purpose here was just to set it up in
the ordinance as a range, knowing full well that each time
that we would have further discussions and then at each
time that this individual completes the course work, we
would be bringing that information back to Council for
discussion and approval of those stipends which is the
agreement that was made with the employee at the time of
the class work.
Mr. Rattner: Well, that is where the discussion has come
up. If we do anything at all we have to do is modify the
salary ordinance at that time when we do a modification
to the budget, so it is not a real big issue. I thought
and the way I took it, is that the Mayor said well, take
it off the table at this point because there are a lot
of questions from the Council. I am not saying which way
it is going to go, if you look at the memo, I also went
the other way, there were a couple items that I thought
that we agreed to change, that I did not see where the
money was put in the budget. I kept track and I would go
along with the ordinance, but without the second number,
knowing that we may be discussing it. We are not saying
that it is not going to happen, right now we don’t
know if it is going to happen, I don’t want to put
it and publish it in an ordinance because then it becomes
almost also guaranteed, the Council has already voted on
it so I know somebody could get it, I don’t want
to give any false hopes in case there is a change.
President Guenther: There was also another correction
we had to make, I don’t know if you saw the memo
that we found on our desk tonight, making changes to the
two line items the Deputy Township Clerk and the Construction
Code Official we are voting on.
Mrs. Spencer: Let me just explain those amendments, again
the changes are put in because there an agreement for the
Deputy Township Clerk that at the time that she passes
her certification, there is an agreement with her that
she will get a $2,000 adjustment to her base. It’s
anticipated that is going to take place in December at
which time the annual salary would change by that amount
of $2,000 but she would only actually receive one month
of that stipend, so that is the reason for putting the
range in whereas if you look in the budget, because that
shows the true annual salary similar to the change that
was done to the construction code official. That individual
was paid at the sub-code official of $55,000 for the month
of January and the annual salary would be changing effective
February 1, 2003. It hasn’t changed any of the budgeted
numbers or those approved figures.
President Guenther: I just wanted to make everybody aware
of the changes.
Mr. Rattner: I understood what the changes are with the
Deputy Clerk. Actually on that one again, I don’t
see where there was a need to put in the range as long
as we have money in the budget so we decide to take action.
It is also nice if somebody gets a promotion that we also
acknowledge it at that time. The Construction Code Official
is something different, that is something that we all were
party to, we told that position at the time because we
had some retirements, this is what was going to happen,
we made sure it was in the budget and that should be because
that is the pay rate I think the person is being paid at
now or very shortly. That is why I also said that I wanted
to make sure that I had the money in the budget because
when I went through the State format, I was not sure if
it was in there because we have to be able to pay it too.
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, I agree with Steve and just for
consistency, I would agree that the top end of the salary
range for the Deputy Clerk and the assistant Tax Collector
be taken out of this ordinance, but the funds for that
be put in what Steve calls a salary adjustment account
so that when these individuals do meet certain criteria,
we can then via ordinance adjust those salaries and we
have the money in the budget to do that. That was the understanding
that I had in that last budget meeting we had with the
Mayor and the Administration.
President Guenther: Any other Council Commnets?
Mrs. Jenkins: There are kind of two separate issues. What
is in the budget in terms of availability and then what
is in the salary ordinance? We can’t just give somebody
a raise at some point in time without it actually being
in here. Even thought the money may be in the budget, if
it is not or there is not a range or a specific amount.
Mr. Rattner: We could amend the ordinance at any time.
Mr. Scapicchio: I would also agree to Charlene’s
recommendation Bernie that section three be removed in
President Guenther: Okay. I just want further discussion,
and then I will call for a motion. Okay no further discussion,
do you want to make a motion to that effect Dave.
Mr. Scapicchio: Sure, Bernie, I’ll make a motion
that we amend this ordinance for the Deputy Clerk that
there not be a range, that the salary for 2003 be set at
$31,441.80, that for the assistant tax collector there
not be a range that the salary for 2003 be set at $52,125.00
and on the last page of this ordinance as recommended by
Charlene, section three be removed in it’s entirety.
Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Any further discussion?
Mr. Scapicchio: To clarify that those ranges are out of
line, the Council’s intention is to just wait until
those milestones are met for these employees before we
include the additional salary in the ordinance.
President Guenther: To make it clear, the monies are here
to do this. That is not the issue, it is just the issue
that we want to make sure those are completed before we
authorize it. Any further discussion from Council? Seeing
none, I will call the roll.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA:
Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered
to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council
and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will
be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions
except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements
that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests,
any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be
removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.
1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing a Dedication by Rider for Contributions – Historic
2. Resolution Authorizing the Sale of Certain Lands by
the Township of Mount Olive, County of Morris Lot 5,
Block 3914, Clinton Avenue.
3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Awarding Telephone Coverage Services for
1 Year to ACC Business.
4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Awarding Local Service Fillings Telephone
Services for 1 Year to Bridgecom International. Inc.
5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing
6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing a Cancellation of Sewer User
Charges for Block 2200 Lot 26 Previously Acquired by the
7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Earth-Tec Associates,
Inc. for the Overlay and Drainage Improvements to Pleasant
8. Resolution Authorizing the Execution and Delivery by
the Township of Mount Olive of Certain Agreements in Connection
with the Refinancing of a Loan Previously Made by the New
Jersey Environmental Infrastructure Trust.
9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing a Place-to-Place Transfer of
Alcholic Beverage License No. 1427-33-002-005 from Inactive
Status to Property Owned Within the International Trade
Zone South for Brinker New Jersey, Inc. Trading as Chili’s
Grill & Bar and Romano’s Macaroni Grill.
10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Seeking Reimbursement from AIG Baker for
Certain Electrical Costs.
11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing Execution of Treatment Works
Approval Permit Application for Woodfield Section IIIB.
12. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township
of Mount Olive Authorizing Execution of Treatment Works
Approval Permit Application for Woodfield Section IIIC.
President Guenther: Does anyone from the Council wish
to comment on any Consent Resolutions?
Mrs. Spencer: I just wanted to respond to item Number
two, at last week’s workshop I was asked to look
into why the Board of Adjustment approved the granting
of this variance to this individual and according to the
Board of Adjustment Minutes, they approved it without waiting
for the Council’s decision of the sale of the adjacent
property because they determined that number one, this
individual had written requesting the purchase and the
individual was interested in making the purchase and that
the addition that was proposed was just continuing a preexisting
exception to the property line and the line of the addition,
so they improved it based on that. The property is surrounded
on two sides, by wooded lots and one of the neighbors had
attended the meeting and said that this was only going
to be an improvement to the lot and they were fine with
Mr. Rattner: I don’t have a problem with what is
being done and I look at the lot and you’re right,
where he is going to be extending house, it’s a nicely
wooded corner lot, it is just the fact that if I understand
and I guess it was just a question and that when you go
for a variance, you have to show basically it is a hardship.
The hardship is, I don’t have enough property to
make an improvement to my existing house, it is going to
improve the area and I have tried everything I can. That
is why you have to notify the adjoining lot owners, ask
for a sale and bring back showing that I made a good faith
attempt to buy additional property. When you don’t,
you meet the criteria of a hardship. The thing is we responded
to this rather quickly and that was the whole question.
If we did that and we said that we would sell it, the question
just came up, well we noticed that we got the variance,
but now we got the question and we agree to sell it. It
just seemed to be out of order. It doesn’t affect
the guy’s end result. One of the things that I have
always been concerned about in Town is when we give out
a variance, and they should just be for a hardship because
too many times in the past, we have had a speculator buy
a substandard lot for very little money, probably in some
of the areas of Town that we have drainage problems, everybody
knows what I am talking about. He spends very little money
because the lot is worthless, gets an engineer and an attorney
and gets a hardship case to say now I want to build. So
I am very very conscious of the way we give out variances.
The person who lives in a house and has been a long term
resident, or short term resident and wants to make an improvement,
I could feel for Mr. Rattner (cont’d): and I should.
If the neighbors don’t mind it, it fits into the
neighborhood, you let them do it, but they should file
through the process. I want to make sure that we don’t
give out variances too easy, not this one in particular
but it was just the fact that I know other people have
had a much more difficult time because they had to go after
the adjoining lot owner to try to make a conforming lot.
Mr. Perkins: Cindy, correct me if I am wrong, is it my
understanding that even by purchasing this lot, the applicant
still necessitated variances.
Mrs. Spencer: Yes.
Mr. Perkins: So, even by the purchase of this lot, that
would not have relieved him to be in compliance, he still
would have required the same variances, correct?
Mrs. Spencer: Yes, he would have.
Mr. Perkins: I guess that formed the basis of the approval.
Mr. Rattner: It is not inappropriate in there, it is just
if he was directed by the Board of Adjustment to try to
buy the joining land we agreed and found out that we were
doing it, and we were told one of the reasons was because
this person had the application. Then when we made the
final decision, we discussed it we were told he already
got the variance. It just seemed to be out of order and
I think it should have been followed properly. Remember
the Board of Adjustment is a Council Board, so that is
President Guenther: I think your point is well taken and
no matter what the individual situation is because there
happens to be vacant land and the neighbors don’t
object, the rule still should be followed.
Mr. Greenbaum: Could I ask a question on that?
President Guenther: Yes, Rob.
Mr. Greenbaum: Steve has stood up here and made an issue
out of this, but it dies here because unless someone is
prepared to discuss this matter with the Board of Adjustment
or the Board of Adjustment Attorney, the fact the Steve
has raised this issue is not going to get back to the Board
of Adjustment so I don’t know that we are finished
on this subject, if Steve really has a concern, what are
we going to do about it?
President Guenther: Well, let’s write a letter.
Steve, would you compose a letter and I will sign it and
send it to the Board of Adjustment.
Mr. Rattner: Okay. We have to be very careful because
they are anonymous boards and they make their own decisions,
we can just say we had that concern on this. We could pass
ordinances to change things I guess.
President Guenther: Since you brought it up, you’ll
Mr. Rattner: Yes.
President Guenther: Thanks. Okay, on resolution number
seven, Lisa informs me that Gene had to leave, but there
is just a slight addition to that one, it said basically
that it would be subject to approval by NJDOT. So with
that added in there, we can just go ahead and approve that
I hope. Okay, that is on the last paragraph which is now
therefore be it resolved, right at the end it says “utilized
in connection with the bidding, subject to approval from
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie I would like to remove number nine
from the consent agenda.
President Guenther: Anybody else? Seeing none.
MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT RESOLUTIONS AGENDA
Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve the Consent Resolutions
Agenda numbers 1-8, 10, 11 12, and 7 as amended. Mrs. Miller
seconded the motion.
PUBLIC PORTION ON CONSENT RESOLUTIONS
Mr. Bonte: Questions on numbers three and four, what precipitated
this particular action?
President Guenther: I believe we were approached by this
company, as a way of saving money. Correct?
Mrs. Spencer: Yes. Since Jim and I have been looking at
different ways to save money with the telephone system
so we were open to listening to their approach because
we had already done a line analysis and had reduced our
monthly charges by about $700.00 a month by reducing the
number of lines we were actually paying for. This was another
offer to come in and do an analysis of the overall telephone
bills and to shop around and see if we can get better rates.
Mr. Bonte: What is the total expenditure on an annual
basis for each of these contracts?
Mrs. Spencer: $0. For these two contracts we are not going
to pay any money at all.
Mr. Bonte: We are getting the phone service for free?
What is the total amount of money we will be spending with
these two vendors over the course of the year?
Mrs. Spencer: I am going to estimate between $60,000 and
$70,000 a year is what we have been spending and they hope
to save us $30,000.
Mr. Bonte: Did we go out for public bid for these services?
President Guenther: One thing we did do is that we did
go back to Verizon.
Mr. Bonte: I understand that, I know and we all know what
all of these companies claim and when the year is up, a
lot of time we kick ourselves for changing service, so
I don’t want to debate that issue. The issue I do
want to debate is, it appears that we are procuring telephone
service for the next whatever period of time and are going
to be spending more money than we can without doing this
on a public bid.
Mrs. Spencer: This is just a billing processing. We are
not changing any part of our services. This contracts for
the processing of the bills.
President Guenther: It is also my understanding that this
can be canceled on a month to month basis, correct?
Mrs. Spencer: For the one with Bridgecom on the local level
phones it is a month to month. The one with ACC Business
Systems which is the subsidiary area of AT&T, that
is for your long distance.
President Guenther: For how long?
President Guenther: One year. That one is for one year
and the other one is month to month.
Mr. Bonte: Mr. King, could we procure these services without
going for competitive bids?
Mr. King: I thought it was a billing contract.
Mrs. Spencer: It is a billing contract.
Mr. King: You are not changing the service provider?
Mrs. Spencer: We are not changing any part of our service
President Guenther: I am confused.
Mrs. Spencer: Right now we get 19 different bills from
the telephone providers. What they are going to do is they
are going to bundle those bills, charge a reduced rate
for the services.
President Guenther: What are those 19 different bills
that we receive? From different companies or what?
Mrs. Spencer: Most of them are from AT&T and from
President Guenther: Why are there 19 not two.
Mrs. Spencer: Because we get 19 and they are different
bundles of lines and services and couplings.
Mr. Rattner: What happened is over the course of time
we have gotten different telephone service usually by office
or by location. Each one was set up as a separate billing
entity, even though it was the Township of Mount Olive,
but every sewer location, for recreation and that type
of thing. We were under the regular tariff billing rate
of AT&T, just like some 40% of the people of the public
still goes to AT&T and spend $.25 a minute or whatever.
They didn’t get on to a plan. AT&T for business
accounts set up a subsidiary, ACC, and that is where they
give their reduced rate. Our rates under ACC are based
on the information we got from the administration are going
to average $.6 to $.7 a minute, right now we are averaging
about $.14 to $.15 a minute This is actually changing the
telephone service to another company even though it is
still owned by AT&T which consolidated is going to
give us one bill at a lower rate because we get the volume
discounts. When that came in, the unit costs were very
impressive. If you look at any of our bills you see were
are paying $.17 a minute for this, $.19 a minute for that.
It is now going to be around $.7 or $.8. I was concerned,
that sounds like great idea and I named big companies so
you have the security. They were actually given the proposal
we got and said what doyou have to compare with this? The
administration gave us back the information that showed
that nobody could match at least a proposal at this point.
The next thing you just asked was about the public bidding
laws. Does telephone service fit under the category of
utilities? Because in the Public Bidding Law, there is
an exception for utilities, a certain section. If you go
out for electric, I don’t believe you don’t
have to bid it. I think if you go out for natural gas,
you don’t have to bid it. Especially for deregulation
now. I would imagine telephone service is considered a
utility and it would probably be the same, I don’t
Mr. King: It is, from what I understand, this company
is within AT&T, so you are not changing the company
itself, but regardless you don’t have to go out to
bid. With that understanding we are not even going to a
different company, that was my understanding.
Mr. Rattner: The services are still provided by AT&T
and Verizon who are our local and long distance providers.
It doesn’t change anything for us.
Mr. Rattner: We don’t pay AT&T anymore, we pay
ACC which is a separate corporation owned by AT&T.
Mr. Bonte: Why are we not going out on a formal competitive
bid for our telephone service? Whether that be separate
companies for local and long distance or one company that
can give us both. Why are we not doing that?
I realize what has been done in the past and maybe we are
not changing companies, but this brings to light now, why
are we not going out and buying that like we would buy
other products competitively.
President Guenther: I think Steve explained it, that apparently
there is an exception for utilities, right?
Mr. Bonte: But it doesn’t mean you can’t do
President Guenther: Well, I agree. The two largest service
providers in this area are AT&T and Verizon as far
as local service and long distance are concerned. We went
to Verizon and said can you match this. They could not
Mr. Bonte: When you go out with a competitive bid package,
it is different than calling people on the phone or saying
take a look at what we are doing, or take a look at what
we are being offered.
President Guenther: No, it’s not. They presented
it to them. Cindy, explain please.
Mr. Bonte: It is different when you do a formal process.
It is taken more seriously I believe by the people that
bid on it and I believe on something of this magnitude,
is the proper way to procure goods and services. When we
need work done in Turkey Brook Park, what did we do? We
went out on a competitive bid. The point is we are certainly
talking about the expenditure of funds on an annual basis
that is much greater than the bid thresholds. This is not
something where you are talking about the professional
services of a lawyer or an engineer and there is more than
just price that we are concerned about.
Mr. Rattner: I consider the need for reliability and know
what you are getting rather than going out and getting
any reseller or some other company like that, these start
ups that come and go, that when you talk about communications
I know that I would feel uncomfortable, I wouldn’t
buy it on price at home because I want reliability, I think
for the communications for the town, it is even more important
that we have to deal with reliability. Our telephones go
down for a half hour or something and when people can get
there, there is a real issue. I think what the Administration
did when they came to us with the first proposal, I requested
that they go out to some of the other big names. Everybody
knows I used to work for AT&T. I know that everyone
is competitive, see what they have to
Mr. Rattner (cont’d): offer, make sure that they
have the resources and they are going to be around tomorrow,
or if you call up a half hour later they are here and they
get you back up and running. I think that is very important.
But these people don’t maintain our phone service;
they don’t maintain any problems with the equipment
I think is Ryer or something like that we just got that.
This is telephone service, the network, if the line goes
down, if our connections go down.
Mr. Bonte: Which connections? We are not talking about
the wires out in the street.
Mr. Rattner: Sure we are.
Mr. Bonte: No you’re not. That is Verizon’s
responsibility. No matter who the carrier is, Verizon has
responsibility of the lines.
Mr. Rattner: It depends whose line you are using.
Mr. Bonte: If I have AT&T phone service at home for
my long distance and the line goes down, AT&T does
not come and fix the line. Verizon does. I have no choice
in that, which is regulated by the State.
Mr. Rattner: Suppose you go to a third ABC company that
has bought bulk wholesale, they don’t have it, they
have 600 lines, 700 people are calling and you keep calling
and you keep getting a busy signal because that reseller
ran out of lines to be able to go through, that only 600
people in that area can use it, and 700 people, not to
indifferent that would happen with a DSL or something like
that, the more users the more problems you are going to
have. A bigger company has the extra capacity, the little
ones buy AT&T’s lines, they buy Verizon’s
lines, or Sprint or MCI, whichever is in the area. They
buy them at wholesale, a certain number of lines and resell
them retail. If they run out or their capacity is exceeded
from what they bought, you get busy signals like what happens
areas with your cellular phone. I wouldn’t trust
a local company.
Mr. Bonte: What is ACC’s relationship with AT&T
Mr. Rattner: They are AT&T.
Mr. Bonte: Are they a subsidiary or are they a sub company
that they have set up that is buying excess service.
Mr. Rattner: They have it so that they can come up with
new pricing, so that they don’t affect their whole
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, I just would like to make the
suggestion that Mr. Bonte raises a good point but I think
on a move forward basis now, I think the administration
did the responsible thing. We can realize an immediate
savings and maybe to satisfy everybody next time around,
we could go out with a formal proposal and then make a
decision that is based on not only price, but credibility
and what we perceive to be better more reliable service.
But for tonight, I am in favor of moving forward. The one
proposal is on a month to month. The other one is 12 months
and the administration could prepare themselves to go out
for a formal bidding process 12 months from now.
Mr. Rattner: I think six months from now we should get
a report that we really obtained the savings. This way
it gives us time, so we have, I know that is what Mr. Bonte
was going to get to. That is the way he thinks, he gives
us the same plan each time so that we have enough time
to do a formal review if we decide we want to get one.
Mr. Scapicchio: I also think, you know we have never bid
any of this, so for the administration to go out and even
research this on a quote basis is admirable.
Mr. Bonte: I agree with you 100%. Cindy I want to express
my thanks for what you did here, I think you did a good
job on this. I am really questioning now in light of what
you have done. By the end of this year, we should have
a bid spec prepared that we could go on the street with
at the beginning of next year and see if we can procure
something even better.
Mrs. Spencer: I think by next year we will be in better
shape to do that because one of the things we still need
to do is take a look at everyone of the couplings or groupings
that they have us billed on now and see if there are further
savings and ways to change those so that it is the most
effective and efficient way for us to be operating and
then we would have a clear description of what our overall
system is so that we could be in a position to go out to
President Guenther: Thank you.
Mr. King: The one problem, when you do that on bid you’re
bound by the acceptance or rejection of that. When you
do it the way that the administration has done it and for
the reasons that Councilman Rattner stated, you can pick
people that you know that may be a little bit more expensive
but will be there to give you the service. So that is what
the Council has to wrestle with when you make that decision.
Mr. Greenbaum: I agree with what Mr. King just said, that’s
exactly what I was going to raise before he said it. I
would not be in favor of bidding this out. It’s not
apples to apples, it’s not just a price, I agree
with Steve whole heartedly, I have had different service
with different companies that I have found to be unreliable.
I am very concerned about having ABC company providing
service which is unreliable to the Township. I was very
concerned about going forward with this, with only one
quote and the administration went out and did some additional
research and satisfied my concerns that the numbers that
we’re getting are good numbers with regard to the
companies that I feel are reliable and I am prepared to
move forward with this. I believe that we should have a
review in six months to see if we are actually realizing
the savings and I would not be in favor of bidding this
out at any point in time for the reasons that Mr. King
President Guenther: My only question is this, I guess
I was under the impression it was all just one company
that was going to handle both the local and the long distance.
This Bridgecom International, what are they? Are they also
affiliated with AT&T in some way? How did they come
into play here?
Mrs. Spencer: They will be handling the Verizon or the
local portion of the billings.
President Guenther: What relationship do they have to
either one of those two companies?
Mrs. Spencer: I believe that they process the bills and
almost similar to the way you have secondary resellers
who take brand new AT&T equipment that AT&T would
offer to you for five dollars, they could have that same
brand new equipment and sell it to you for $350,000.
President Guenther: But how did they come into play here.
Were they brought into the process through ACC?
Mrs. Spencer: No. The company that came to us is called
S.S. Technologies. They take a look at your entire system
and all of your bills and they do an analysis and they
shop around to the various bill processors and then they
came back to us and they offered us three different options
on the long distance which we chose ACC, so that we would
not have any interruption or change in the providers of
the service. They only recommended Bridgecom and they have
had a number of years experience with them and they have
been very successful and they can process the bills at
a lower rate than Verzion, but Verizon would still be the
President Guenther: What did we pay S.S to do this?
Mrs. Spencer: Nothing. They are actually paid by Bridgcom
and ACC systems.
Jane Israel, Budd Lake: I am confused. I worked for Verizon
for 30 years. What are local service fillings?
Mrs. Spencer: I don’t understand what you are asking
Mrs. Israel: On the resolution, it talks about filling,
that is one of my questions, and the other question is
will our phone numbers have to change?
Mrs. Spencer: Nothing about out service delivery changes
Mrs. Israel: Okay, because my experience with the other
companies, they have a certain block of numbers in the
Verizon central office that they buy and usually there
are certain numbers and maybe your calls are forwarded
to those numbers but are you sure that there is no change
Mrs. Spencer: I have been assured, and the contract says
that we will have no change in the providers of our service.
Our service will not change. Not the equipment, nothing.
Mrs. Israel: Okay, does anybody know what fillings are?
Mr. King: I took that language off a memo, so perhaps
it was a typo.
Mrs. Spencer: It may be. It is probably filing.
President Guenther: It still does not make sense.
Mr. Rattner: I think it should be lines. It is the closest
thing. You have the long distance lines; you have your
local lines. With affordability, if anybody looks at the
telephone bill, you’ll noticed you get charged anywhere
from $.90 to $1.50 per line, per month. That is so you
can take this telephone number with you no matter what
telephone company you go to.
President Guenther: If nobody has any objections to make
this sound more sensible, is to change the title of it
to awarding local telephone services.
Mr. Spino: I’d rather we find out exactly what we
are talking about.
Mrs. Spencer: I have the file in my office.
President Guenther: Why don’t we take this one out
as well? So we are going to take number four out and we
will come back to it.
Mr. Bonte: Can I comment on one more thing, Bernie?
Mr. Guenther: Sure.
Mr. Bonte: After Jane got up and thinking about it a little
more, I am still confused about this. I don’t understand
how Verizon is still going to continue to provide the service,
how they get paid, how this company gets paid, how Bridgton
gets paid, how ACC gets paid. We pay a bill that is “x” amount
less than we are paying now. Where does the money come
from? I am really confused about this. The only thing I
can see is that somewhere down at the bottom our service
is being switched.
Mr. Scapicchio: Rich, the way I understand this is that
these are both purchasers of the services.
Mr. Bonte: So that means somebody other than Verizon is
providing the service to us.
Mr. Scapicchio: That may be true on the Bridgecom, because
I don’t know who Bridgecom is.
Mr. Bonte: I don’t understand. Why wouldn’t
Verizon do this?
Mr. Scapicchio: Rich, we brought that up at the workshop
and I was wondering the same thing myself, but they refused
Mr. Bonte: I don’t have a good feeling now that
our service is actually going to be somebody other than
Mr. Rattner: I think Mr. Spino said to take those two
off in and continue until the next meeting. I think that
makes the most sense. We are not going to resolve anything
President Guenther: On both of these I think I want in
writing something to satisfy us, that the present service
is first of all local with Verizon and second, number two,
long distance with AT&T are being continued under this
plan. It should be made part of the ordinances. Do we agree
with that Council?
Mr. Scapicchio: That’s fine, Bernie.
President Guenther: Okay so we are taking both three and
four off and that won’t even be considered tonight
and that, they will be taken off for the next meeting.
Any other Public Commnets? Seeing none, any further Council
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
Mrs. Miller: Doesn’t Dave have to amend his motion?
Mr. Scapicchio amended the motion, Resolution number 3 & 4
are off. Number 9 was previously removed. Mr. Greenbaum
seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Any further Council discussion?
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
RESOLUTIONS NON CONSENT
President Guenther: Discussion from the Public on Resolution
No. 9? Seeing none, Mr. Scapicchio, what was your concern
Mr. Scapicchio: The thought that I had, Bernie, was based
on the information that Mr. Dorsey provided us this evening
that Chili’s Bar and Grill, and Macaroni Grill has
opened without the appropriate inspections and C.O.’s.
Would it be appropriate for us to hold off on approving
this liquor license transfer until those inspections and
C.O were issued? That is a question I have for the attorney.
Do we have the authority to do that?
Mr. King: I wouldn’t.
Mr. Scapicchio: Okay. I accept that.
President Guenther: Now that this has brought on the table,
the question I have to ask is how this happens.
Mrs. Lashway: They didn’t open for business. As
Cindy said, they opened just to do hiring.
Mrs. Spencer: They were doing hiring and they were not
supposed to have anyone on those premises.
Mr. Rattner: They were using the business for business
purposes which is illegal.
Mrs. Lashway: But they weren’t cooking and selling
to the public.
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, you asked a question, how did
it happen? They broke the law and did it, but our code
enforcement department caught them.
Mr. King: And the code enforcement department is taking
the appropriate steps.
Mr. Rattner: Commerce bank did the same thing when they
opened. I go to cut a ribbon and find out it was illegal.
Mr. Scapicchio made a motion that we approve Resolution
Number 9. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mrs.
Miller who voted No.
A Resolution to Introduce the 2003 Municipal Budget.
Mr. Rattner made a motion to introduce the 2003 Municipal
Budget. Mr. Scapicchio seconded the motion.
Mrs. Lashway: The amendments that came in today from Gary
Higgins go into your budget package. You need to read the
resolution into the record setting the date for the public
Mrs. Jenkins: If I could just explain a couple changes
that were made, if that is okay. I went through the Budget
on Friday after Gary delivered it and I just noticed in
the Police Department that they hadn’t broken out
the acquisition to police vehicles, they just had the total
under other expenses, the bottom of sheet 14. Basically
the total didn’t change, we just needed to break
out the portion that was applicable to the acquisition
of the vehicles. So that is really that change. The last
sheet which talks about Open Space, Kathy was out on Friday
so we just got the total acreage that was preserved to
date and that was the only change that we made on that
sheet which is sheet number 43.
President Guenther: Thank you.
Mrs. Lashway: Mr. Rattner should read the resolution with
the Public Hearing Date.
Mr. Rattner: Be it resolved that the following statement
of revenues and appropriations attached here to constitute
the local budget of the Township of Mount Olive, Morris
County New Jersey for the year 2003. Be it further resolved
that the set budget be published in the Daily Record in
the issue of May 2, 2003 and that a Hearing on the Budget
be held at the Municipal Building on May 13, 2003 at 7:30
pm or as soon thereafter as the matter may be reached.
Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.
President Guenther: Any further discussion?
Mr. Rattner: I sent out a memo and it was just after lunch
today after reviewing the Budget and I saw something. I
don’t know if I was just reading it wrong or I didn’t
find it. It may be minor and we may be able to change it
later, did the Administration get a copy of that memo?
Mrs. Spencer: No, I have not seen it yet.
Mr. Rattner: I’ll just read it and say what the
minor ones were. I couldn’t find the salary adjustments
for the Building and Grounds and Recreation Supervisors,
when I looked at the line items, I did not see it included
in the State Format Budget. That would have to be done,
right? In other words, the adjustments we were making to
those two positions that we had discussed and agreed.
Mrs. Jenkins: They were included Steve, they are not in
the salary adjustment account but they are in the individual
Mr. Rattner: I went back to the original Budget that I
got, the black binder where it didn’t have those
numbers in there and the numbers are identical to what
is in the budget. I remember the one percent rule, the
five percent rule and 10 percent rule about changing items.
Does that fall in there so that if we could do this, we
could just make the change because they are relatively
minor right, if it is in fact omitted?
Ms. Jenkins: We could change it, but I am sure what is
in there is right. We will double check for you.
Mr. Rattner: But if it isn’t we could change it
Mrs. Jenkins: Yes.
Mr. Rattner: I also did not see the salary adjustment
for the construction official or the sub code official,
the original amount of money we were putting in.
Ms. Jenkins: That was in the original budget.
Mr. Rattner: I am just saying because it looks like it
just said the 4.5%, I didn’t see anything else where
you had inserted lines where there were additional items.
Ms. Jenkins: I can give you the detailed sheets and you
Mr. Rattner: I also did not find the budget dollars for
the additional police officer that we said we were going
to hire this August. In the bottom of my memo, I put down
that I do realize that they are relatively minor in the
whole scheme and I do believe under the Budget Law we could
make those amendments at the Public Hearing if they are
needed. The other one which concerns me a little bit more
because I am not sure what it does with the conditions
of the budget is that I am aware that a tax appeal was
filed by K-Land, Number 51, LLC which is commonly referred
to as Woodfield on April 1, 2003. The appeal represents
181 lots with an assessed value exceeding $6 million. The
complaint states, I don’t know the facts, this is
just what the complaint states, that the sub-division map
not filed, lot not in existence. The area of concern that
I have is the budget. We have spent a lot of time, we looked
at making sure the reasonableness of the surplus, how much
we were using, how we were going to replenish it, also
the reserve for uncollected taxes, those types of things.
I think that I need to know that the numbers that we have
as assessments were good. I don’t know what it means.
It may mean that we are just too aggressive, I am not sure
where that is going. I know that we just got the complaints,
so we probably have not had much time, but I fiqure the
exposure could effect our reserve collection and our replenishment
of surplus for next year. And also, if this is the first
one that came in, do we know of any other big ones out
there, because that could affect tax appeals that we will
have to pay in 2003. It is a question, I felt really uncomfortable
when I saw that come in.
Ms. Jenkins: Jack did mention this to me on Monday. I
did talk about what other appeals might be coming in. We
did speak about this appeal specifically and I will have
him put something in writing for you.
Mr. Rattner: Do I have anything to be concerned about?
In other words, anybody can appeal anything, and I understand
that, especially when it is a big developer, we kept a
lot of things in, but on the pubic document, the complaint
states it’s the whole reason for the appeal, I don’t
know if Mr. King has seen it yet, it states “subdivision
map not filed, lot not in existence”. We have 181
of those. I stopped adding it up when I hit $6 million.
I am just concerned, did we miss a date or did we get something
on before something was filed. I don’t know what
that means. What does that mean?
Mr. King: I have not seen it.
Mr. Rattner: But that could affect the way that we feel
about the Budget.
President Guenther: What does this mean, the subdivision
map not filed. They are claiming we have a fictitious assessment
here; we did not just grab this out of the thin air I hope.
Mr. Spino: Why are we talking about this and we don’t
really know what the situation is. Steve, I am not saying
you should not have brought it up. Let’s find out
more about it. We don’t really know what we are talking
about when we talk about it because we have not seen it.
John has not had a chance to look at it. We are talking
about something in the legal field, and we are talking
about the budget.
Mr. Rattner: That why I thought the Administration would
be able to explain whether we should go ahead with the
Budget tonight or not. I don’t know if it is something
that we should hold up. Obviously it is something that
we could always modify it later, but if it is something
Ms. Jenkins: I spoke to Jack and I do have some information,
but at this point it is pending and I really don’t
want to get into it in this forum, I think it is more appropriate
if I go back and follow up if that is okay.
Mr. Rattner: But should we move ahead with the budget?
Do we have any risks in the Budget? That is all I am asking.
Why introduce a budget if there could be some risks in
the future? If the risks are relatively minor in the whole
scheme of things, I don’t have a problem about moving
Ms. Jenkins: I know the conversation that I had with him
on Monday, and I want to reconfirm that giving that there
are a couple things in here that we did not speak about,
so I need to double check that.
Mr. Rattner: Okay, well that was why I wrote the memo
President Guenther: It will be taken off the table to
be considered at the next meeting.
Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to table the resolution to
Introduce the 2003 Municipal Budget. Mr. Greenbaum seconded
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.
A Resolution to Introduce the 2003 Solid Waste Collection
District Budget was also tabled.
1. Bill List.
Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the Bill List, Mr.
Rattner seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
2. Raffle Application #1069 for District No. 6 Vasa Order
of America and Raffle Application #1070 & #1071 for
the Morris County Foster Parents Association.
Mrs. Miller moved for approval of the listed Raffle Applications,
Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously
Library Board Liaison Report
Mr. Scapicchio: A couple of things, the meeting last night
for the orientation with Netcong, has been rescheduled
based on the weather for next Monday at 7:00 pm. The low
bid for the new library building has been challenged by
the next lowest bidder and I believe that there were six
points that next lower bidder made the challenge on, four
of which Mr. Dorsey did not agree with, two of which I
believe he did which was the requirement that the sub-contractors
be certified by the State. One of the subcontractor’s
certification was not submitted with the bid. The other
contractor’s certification was outdated. I believe
Mr. Dorsey has sent instructions to Rita, the Director
of the Mr. Scapicchio (cont’d): Library. The Library
Board meets tomorrow night and based on Mr. Dorsey’s
review and recommendation, they have several decisions
to make tomorrow night and that is to put the low bidder
on notice that it has been challenged and to see what they
have to say about that, and based on Mr. Dorsey’s
analysis, I believe the Library Board has the authorization
to reject that low bid and make the award to the next lowest
bidder as long as that next lowest bidder has met all of
the requirements of the certifications.
Mr. Ratter: This is a question, I guess just for the Attorney.
Those seem like minor things, a date is expired. You don’t
get any chance to, in other words, the one contractor that
you need a certification, I guess each year. It’s
like having an insurance card in your car. It expires but
if you have the certification.
Mr. Scapicchio: I could answer that question, because
I did ask Mr. Dorsey that question when I had a conversation
with him, he said he tried that in Hanover, I believe it
was the municipal building project and he lost, and it
was obviously awarded to the next low bidder. It’s
a requirement that one cannot overcome.
Mr. Ratter: How much was the next bidder up from the low
Mr. Scapicchio: The low bidder was $3.8 million, and the
next was $4.1 million. So about $300,000.00 more.
Mr. Rattner: But that is still well within our budget.
Mr. Scapicchio: It’s still well within our budget.
We still need to see what the Library Board does tomorrow
Mr. Guenther: I was unfortunately unable to attend the
last meeting but Jill has given me a very detailed report.
They made a progress report on Flanders Park; for example
that the restrooms will reopen when the chance of freezing
pipes is over. We are getting into the spring season and
certain facilities will be open for use by the public.
They have now started the process of updating the website
daily by 3 pm regarding field use and status information.
So anybody that needs to know about that or has a group
involved with that should check the website. A suggestion
was made by Jill, apparently some issues had come up regarding
the youth sports organizations and she made a suggestion
actually forming a separate committee to handle items that
pertain directly to youth sports associations vs. general
recreational activities, apparently of some disagreement
on the advisory committee about that and they will be discussing
that further. There was just a reminder that I wanted to
throw out to the public, it’s sport’s associations
will have to submit the documentation following procedures
and financial policies and memos in order to receive budget
allocations, so that time of year is coming near, and the
sports associations have been informed so that they could
get their allocation. Also, they are looking for suggestions
for Community Service projects for the summer.
Board of Health Report
Mr. Perkins: At our meeting last week, there were a couple
of interesting items that were brought up. We had the honor
of having Council members present, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Scapicchio,
Mr. Art Myers, we awarded him with a plaque for his service
on the Board of Health. His position has been filled, it
is working out nicely. We had a question by Dr. Abrams,
the Dattalo Shopping Mall, and Councilman Rattner has sent
a letter which I believe the Council is also privy to regarding
the well that is over there, so there is an investigation
being done on that. We had an update from Frank Wilpert,
the Morris Cooperative seems to be kicking off very nicely.
They are getting a lot of interest in that. Frank did a
lot of work on it, so far it has not cost us any money,
and with any luck it won’t cost us any money, it
won’t set up that next level of bureaucracy that
I know Dave was concerned about. Moving on from there,
there was a couple of cases of people coming back from
the orient, looking at SARS, my understanding was that
there wasn’t any confirmed cases in the area. There
were some high fevers but there was no concern based upon
that and as far as any of the outbreaks where we may be
looking at bioterrorism or what not, the task group has
put together a still booking, BASF is the partner that
will be working that through with Picatinny Arsenal. In
the event that something should happen, Frank Wilpert and
his staff are up on all of that.
President Guenther: Ray, just a question on Dattalo, I
know this issue is with the well, were they given a certain
increased number of edu’s to operate that laundromat
that they wanted. How was that resolved?
Mr. Rattner: That’s the lawsuit we have going.
President Guenther: Okay, thanks.
Planning Board Report
Mr. Greenbaum: Thursday night, Panera Bread, ITC South
and the Mall at 206 expansion which is additional retail
space and a childcare facility. There is no meeting on
the 24th of April, the next meeting after that will be
May 8th and that should be in part Crown Tower, although
I don’t believe that there is going to be any discussion
on the merits of the application.
President Guenther: Where is that childcare center supposed
Mr. Greenbaum: There is a proposed expansion at the Mall
at 206 on the side of the existing Kiernan’s side
of the building, there was a question with regard to the
parking lot and the stabilization of the hill and the applicant
who is actually going to be leasing space from the owner
of the shopping center wasn’t in a position to agree
to redo some of the problems with that entire site and
the Planning Board basically sent them packing back and
wanted resolution of the issues on that entire site and
they are coming back and I believe that they are going
to repave, restripe that parking lot which everyone knows
is a disaster as well as coming in with a retaining wall
behind the building to stabilize the slope throughout the
length of the building so I think that should…
President Guenther: Aren’t those condominiums in
Mr. Spino: Condo’s.
Mr. Greenbaum: I guess the common ground is a condominium
President Guenther: So you are dealing with condominium
Mr. Greenbaum: We’ll we are not, we are actually
dealing with the applicant.
Mr. Scapicchio: The condominium association sold the development
rights to the property that is adjoined to that property.
President Guenther: Oh so this is on the adjoining property?
Mr. Greenbaum: I think it is actually the same piece of
property and that is how the Planning Board is able to
exercise jurisdiction over the existing property.
Mr. Scapicchio: Rob, what is happening with AIG/Baker,
Mr. Greenbaum: Panera Bread.
Open Space Committee Report
Mrs. Miller: We did have a tour, we took a little mini
van out and toured the open space of Mount Olive and I
think the tour was a success, which was Saturday Morning.
Mr. Greenbaum: The other thing I think we wanted to do
in the future and this is kind of a preliminary; representatives
of various organizations in towns were present. The Board
of Adjustment President was there, members of the Planning
Board, different organizations, so everybody is kind of
tuned in to exactly what we are doing which is great because
a lot of these grounds also involve probably continuous
to school property. The other thing we want to do in the
future that really since I see some members of the press
here, maybe in the future we will have a press tour and
also what we want to do is invite members of the Mount
Olive Business Community so that they could see what we
are doing and possibly sort of integrate them in the process
and have them buy into what we are doing in town to preserve
Legislative Committee Report
Mr. Spino: I have no report.
Pride Committee Report
Mr. Perkins: No report.
Status of Committee RE: Lake/Environment Issue
Mrs. Miller: The next meeting is not until September.
Board of Education Report
Mr. Scapicchio: None
Master Plan Committee Report
Mr. Scapicchio: No report.
Ned McDonald, Budd Lake: Just one question on the Bill
List, on page 12, way down at the bottom, the Star Ledger,
ad for Turf Maintenance for $896.00. Could somebody please
explain what that is?
Mrs. Spencer: That was actually an ad for the turf maintenance
technician, or the senior level person that was being advertised
for an employee.
Mr. McDonald: Is that customary; an $896.00 fee for an
ad in the Star Ledger? It seems like an awful lot.
Mrs. Lashway: That’s probably run a week; it’s
very expensive to run a classified for a week in the Record
and the Star Ledger.
Mr. McDonald: Thank you.
Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: Earlier in the meeting we had
some discussion by Mr. Lynch regarding using our Town employees
to reroof the barn up at Turkey Brook. The concern I would
have, I think it goes along with what Steve had, but he
didn’t carry it further, and that is, will our employees
be covered by workman’s compensation insurance if
they are outside their class, and if they are, I know for
a fact, Workman Compensation rules require that for the
12 months period that the policy is rated at, you get billed
for the highest class that the worker worked in during
that 12 months and I know that the roofing rate is one
of the highest rates, we need to get the answers…
Mr. Scapicchio: Rich, I am not sure it is for the whole
Mr. Bonte: I can show you the letter I just got from my
insurance company yesterday.
Mr. Scapicchio: We have some employees that are split.
Mr. Bonte: You are not allowed to split them; I can show
you the rule.
Mr. Scapicchio: We do it, it is on the policy.
Mr. Bonte: I have had time split for the last 11 years
and they had disallowed it, and I went back on an appeal
and I got the ruling from the insurance commissioner. It
is in the manual.
Mr. Scapicchio: Our insurance carrier allows it.
Mr. Bonte: I know, they are doing it and they shouldn’t
be. I got away with it for 11 years.
Mr. Scapicchio: You may be right.
Mr. Rattner: That’s why I brought up the issue.
The one thing that Mr. Lynch has been doing is that when
ever we ask him to look at something and say can you get
this done, he is doing a tremendous job. We have to make
sure we have other professionals that can look into things
like insurance, but I don’t want him to stop thinking
out of the box like he is doing.
Mr. Bonte: I agree with you. I am not picking on Jim.
My other question was, and it has been in the newspapers
a couple of times over the last few weeks and I see we
have reached an agreement with Netcong on providing library
services at $20.00 and I presume it’s per card holder?
President Guenther: Yes.
Mr. Bonte: I don’t understand how we can provide
that service that cheaply. Doesn’t it cost us more
than that per card holder for Mount Olive residents?
Mr. Scapicchio: It does.
Mr. Bonte: So how are we doing this and why are we giving
another town a “reduced” rate.
Mr. Scapicchio: Rich, I’ll just tell you, I have
raised that issue with Rita, I don’t have a vote
on that Library Board, I am just a Council Liaison. When
that issue came up I did question that and the general
response that I got from Rita was that, and I think it
is a one year contract, she wanted to be able to show Netcong
the value of the service that we could provide, see how
it worked out and that she would revisit it.
Mr. Bonte: I have a real problem with that and I will
tell you why. My problem is, first of all, we obviously
are providing a service of tremendous value to another
community at the expense of our Township residents. The
Mount Olive Public Library may be an autonomous body, but
I believe they receive funding from the taxpayer and therefore
this Council has an obligation to the taxpayers of this
Town that we are not giving our money away to another Town.
I just have a problem with this. I saw what Roxbury’s
numbers were, and they were $40.00. When I did some numbers
in my head real quick, I kind of came up in the upper $30’s.
Mr. Scapicchio: I think ours are $37.00 and $38.00.
Mr. Bonte: So I don’t understand why we are being
so benevolent here at taxpayer expense.
Mr. Rattner: I don’t know how they came up with
the costs, I looked at that too. In industry, there are
two ways of costing something, one is what they call fully
loaded, fully weighted costs, the actual costs to everything
in there. The other is incremental costs. Every manufacturer
in the country uses it. Whether it be GE, they have a toaster
under their own name, they’ll manufacture for somebody
else under another name, as long as they cover all the
variable costs and they cover part of their fixed costs.
There is a benefit. It ends up to be a profit on the bottom
line, especially if we are doing something experimental.
As long as you can cover your variable costs, which having
them come in, I don’t know, the variable costs have
to be very very little. That is something that I just know
from industry. I have no idea how they came up with it,
but the variable costs, if there are 100 people from Netcong,
and this is the easy way to look at it. We don’t
have to hire a single person. We are not going to buy an
additional book. I would imagine we probably have enough
library cards, so it is not going to have to do anything
there, so if we look at it on an incremental basis, we
couldn’t take the Town of Roxbury and do it, but
somebody like Netcong, if they are paying us $10,000 and
it costs us maybe $300.00 out of pocket extra to run the
library, the tax payers of Mt. Olive benefit by $9,700.
I think what they need to do is look how many people use
it, what the real costs are and go forward. But incremental
costing is something that keeps every major manufacturing
giant in this country alive.
Mr. Bonte: I understand the concept completely Steve,
but we are talking about the tax payers that are funding
the library and offering a service to non-residents at
a reduced rate. I do have a problem with that. I understand
what you are saying. But I do have a problem with providing
a governmental service to another entity at a reduced rate.
I don’t see the inherent fairness of that.
President Guenther: Wasn’t also one of the considerations
that they had a very limited amount of money that they
had allocated for that use in the school or wherever they
were running it. Wasn’t that one of the considerations?
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, I could tell you that I was not
privy to the calculations or the method which Rita utilized
to come up with that number. I will tell you that when
it came up in a board meeting the questions that I asked
were the same as Mr. Bonte is questioning us about. Rita
proceeded to tell me that the general funding for the library
is based on population and my suggestion at that time is
maybe what we should do is take the population of Netcong,
the population of Mount Olive, and then figure out what
the per household, or per card use would be based on those
total populations. Her explanation was it is a trial period,
she wanted to show Netcong what we had to offer and that
she and the Library Board would revisit that in twelve
months. But I certainly did share with her of my opinion
that I thought it was unfair to offer a service to another
community at less of a cost than it costs our own tax payers,
I told her as an elected official I have a problem with
that. That is all I know.
Mr. Bonte: All I could say is I hope everybody on this
Council thinks about that, and considers that when they
consider the library’s budget and the kind of numbers
they are going to give the library this year.
President Guenther: Since we have the president of the
library association here, maybe she would want to address
Jane Israel, Library Board: Well we had the same questions
on the board that you brought up, but one of the things
that is different and I don’t know if Netcong has
realized it yet, but our cost is $20.00 per person and
Roxbury’s was $40.00 per household which means that
we were really in the same kind of situation as Roxbury.
Anyway, the thing is, Netcong doesn’t know how many
people are going to come over here and use the library
and Mrs. Israel (cont’d): we don’t either.
I don’t think that we really want to put Netcong
in a position that they have to pay for our building or
electricity or other things that we have to pay for anyway.
It is not going to cost us any more if a few more people
come through the door just as Steve said, we are not going
to run out and buy more books or anything like that. How
we came up with $20.00, is because you know the support
of the library is dictated by the state according to the
evaluation a third of a million per $100.00 dollars of
evaluation and that is what it would be for Netcong. That
is what they should support their library at about $20.00
a person. That is for their whole population.
Mr. Rattner: But they have 3,000 people in town.
Mrs. Israel: Believe me, they are not going to come over
Mr. Rattner: I agree, I understand their concept for an
experiment, but if you are going to use that rationale,
if we are paying based on assessed value at $20.00 per
person, it would be $20.00 for it to be $1,000, which would
Mrs. Israel: I’m sorry, for us it is about $35.00.
Dave was right.
Mr. Rattner: For a cardholder, or per resident?
Mrs. Israel: Per person in Mount Olive.
Mr. Rattner: Per card holder or per person of our 24,000
Mrs. Israel: Per person of the 24,000 people.
Mr. Rattner: So then the same thing, even if you are charged,
then it would be the same thing charged for the 3,000 people
Mrs. Israel: Well should it be, though, because they don’t
have a building, they have to come over here.
Mr. Rattner: Mr. Bonte and Mr. Scapicchio, that is a concept
which I may disagree on how we implement it. But if you
are going to use that, then it would be based on the same
basis, here is the population. It is an experiment, it
does not cost us anything, I think the bottom line is that
we get $10,000 extra in the library that we wouldn’t
have to use for other things so we could do a couple of
different things. Next year, when they see the value, suppose
six people show up, they are not going to pay a lot of
money. We don’t know if people are going to travel
from Netcong, up here.
Mrs. Israel: Right. I would invite Mr. Bonte to come to
our meeting tomorrow night if he would like to question
Mr. Bonte: I have now heard something different, which
is a much wider disparity and in thinking a little further
about excess capacity, at the same time what you are doing
is you are affording the opportunity for another community
to say, we won’t spend the money for a building,
and we won’t have a staff. We will run on the coattails
of another community and let that other community bare
the cost of the electricity and the books and the building
and the new library structure. That is patently unfair.
President Guenther: Rich, there is a movement statewide
on shared services and that has been happening in the case
of small communities like Netcong, it makes sense. For
example we are already doing it with Netcong with the Health
Mr. Bonte: It’s a wonderful concept, but the burden
should be equal, and now what I am hearing is, the burden
is even more distant than I thought it was. I thought it
was $35.00 per card holder vs. $20.00 per card holder.
Now I am hearing that it is $35.00 per person in the town.
I don’t know how many cards we have issued in town
but I am going to venture to say it is half the population.
Mrs. Israel: That is an understatement, I am sorry.
Mr. Bonte: We need to get those facts. If it is per person
in the Town, then that means that we may be spending $60.00
per card holder versus offering the service to an outside
person for only $20.00. I think we need to find out the
answers to this. We need to correct this as soon as possible;
I don’t think we should be offering our service to
other communities at less than we charge our own citizens.
President Guenther: I agree with Rich, at least we should
look at it, I agree with a trial period for a period of
time, I am not sure that a year is really the appropriate
time, but since that is what we have approved I guess.
Mr. Scapicchio: I am not sure what authority we have.
Mr. King: The only authority you have is budgeting in
Mr. Scapicchio: So we are still locked in. All we have
to do is voice our opinion, which is what I did.
President Guenther: Then I guess Rich, Jane Israel’s
suggestion is the correct one, address your concerns to
the library board. But your point is well taken, and I
promise we will bring it up at the next budget hearing
for next year. It will be interesting to see to what extent
the Netcong Residents use it. If there is all of the sudden
a flood of people coming in, well then certainly you have
to re-evaluate it. But if it is a trickle of a couple of
hundred people even finding $20.00 too expensive, well
then you know, what does it matter. It is not significant
income one way or the other.
Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, the individuals from Netcong aren’t
paying that fee. What Mount Olive is going to do is they
are going to keep record of every resident that applies
and receives a library card, they are going to bill Netcong
on a monthly basis and Netcong is going to pay that. Not
the individual users.
President Guenther: Any other comments from the Public?
Seeing none, final council comments?
Mr. Rattner: Next Tuesday is the Board of Education Election.
Lets at least get a good showing out, whether you like
the candidates, whether you don’t, whether you like
the budget or you don’t but the more people that
go out, at least they know it is the feeling of the community.
If the people don’t know, if the budget gets turned
down it comes over here, then we are having problems with
our own budget and we get that one too. We have done that,
and I think we have done a good job in the last couple
of years, but that is where it goes if you tell them no.
Mr. Greenbaum: With respect to the cluster ordinance I
would request that the chair invite Mr. Buczynski, Mr.
McGroarty and someone from the Environmental Commission
to our meeting when we discuss the rescinding of the cluster
President Guenther: Why the environmental commission?
Mr. Greenbaum: They may have some impact; or Open Space.
One or the other, or both.
Mrs. Lashway: Rather than bringing them into a meeting,
how about once I have the ordinance prepared I send it
to those Boards and ask them for their comments?
President Guenther: Your point is well taken. I was planning
to do that, invite Mr. Buczynski and Mr. McGroarty. Definitely
they should be here. Anyone else? I have one final question,
this thing I found in my mail, an Administrative Order
on the penalty from the Department of Environmental Protection.
What did we do wrong this time?
Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know.
Mr. Rattner: According to the complaint, it says that
we put in a generator with out a permit.
President Guenther: A generator, but where? Is this at
the Sewer Plant?
Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know I will have to research
President Guenther: Okay.
President Guenther made a motion to adjourn, all in favor,
none opposed. The meeting adjourned at 10:12 pm.
BERNHARD D. GUENTHER
I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount
Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is
a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a
legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township
Council duly held on September 16, 2003.
LISA M. LASHWAY
Mount Olive Township Clerk