Mount Olive Township Council Minutes
May 29, 2001
The Special Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council
was called to order at 7:30pm by Council President Rattner
with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice
of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle
and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at
in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road,
Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting
ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Sohl,
Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Scapicchio, President Rattner.
Absent: Mr. Spino
President Rattner: I would also like to acknowledge the
attendance of the Mayor, Paul Licitra; the Business Administrator,
Sandy Kaplan; the Township Attorney, John Dorsey; and Township
Clerk, Lisa Lashway.
Mayor Licitra: I wanted to introduce you to Scott Gaskill.
Scott has been hired as a Computer Administrator. Brand new.
Today was his first day, and I thought it was appropriate
that all new employees, managers and such should come up
and be introduced by the Council. So that is why I am doing
so. Scott, welcome aboard.
Scott Gaskill: Thank you.
SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING ON THE PROPOSED CHANGES IN THE 1991
MASTER PLAN FOR TURKEY BROOK PARK
President Rattner: Okay, we=re going to open the Public
Hearing on the Proposed changes in the 1991 Master Plan for
Turkey Brook Park. The Administration has been working extremely
hard with a lot of resources for the last six, eight months.
So I=m going to turn it over to Mr. Kaplan right now, who
is going to have, I=m sure, some of the Township Professionals
explain exactly what this Public Hearing is to accomplish,
what the Statutory requirements are.
Mr. Kaplan: I=m going to turn it over to Mr. Casey, the
Special Project Coordinator for Turkey Brook, he will explain
Mr. Dorsey: Bob, do you want me to handle this part of it?
Mr. Casey: Do you want to start?
Mr. Dorsey: All right, the Record is running as we say,
and this Public Hearing has been called, essentially, for
two specific purposes. The first is to satisfy a requirement
of the DEP before it will issue its final approval as to
the development of Turkey Brook Park. That aspect of the
Public Hearing is really the only matter, which is open for
Public Hearing in terms of a Record. It is a review of the
revised plans for Turkey BrookCrevisions since the 1991 Master
Plan, and as to the impact, or effect of those changes on
the existing environmental conditions in the park, including
any impact on wildlife, environmentally sensitive areas,
steep slopes, wetlands, wetland transition area, and proposed
natural areas of development. Mr. Casey, as proposed that
after we complete that aspect, which is the Public Hearing,
he will then go into, and we will entertain comments from
people as to other details beyond essentially the environmental
impact of the changes which have been made to the 1991 Master
Plan. Bob, do you want to begin by making any explanation
Mr. Casey: Yes, I=d like to basically outline those changes.
Mr. Dorsey: Okay, so those changes deal with the environmental
Mr. Casey: Correct. Thank you, John. What you see here is
a plan that was prepared in 1991, which was part of the original
application package to get State assistance to purchase the
property. In this plan, it showedCFlanders Road is at the
top. It showed all the playing fields, and all the development
on the Flanders side of the hill. This is the top of the
hill about here. This is everything which goes down towards
Flanders Road. It had all the development in there, etc.
The back portion of the hill, toward the pond, the area was
basically maintained as what was called a Agreat lawn@Cjust
an open grass area for whatever. And, then a wildflower meadow
area. There was trails, etc., around the pond. This plan
was prepared in =91, submitted to the State, the Township
received funding in =94, =95, partially predicated upon this
plan. Predicated upon the development of the site for recreation
purposes, with the understanding that because of all the
woodland area, etc., there was an environmentally sensitive
site, and therefore these areas were being preserved for
non-development use. When the Township actually began the
development plans because of the growth in the Recreation
Program, etc. they evolved a revised plan for the Park. Basically,
what you seeChere is the top of the hill here. What has basically
occurred, in the back portionCthis area hereCthere is now
proposed to be approximately four or five soccer fields and
three baseball fields. The areaCthe wooded area, the area
around the pond, the wetlands area, steep slope areas, there
has been no plans. There has been a limited amount of clearing
into the wooded area, slightly. You can=t really see it here,
but the existing treeline comes out like this, so there=s
a slight movement in that direction, which was required to
put the baseball fields in. There is no proposed development
in the area, which is currently heavy-wooded. That area is
still being preserved for wildlife, open space. We have presented
this plan to the Office of Green Acres. The Office of Green
Acres has basically indicated to us that because the Township
is changing the proposed use in this lower portionCthe back
portion of the hill, that we would have to prepare a report
from a Wildlife Expert to indicate whether this change, i.e.,
the deletional portion of the great lawn and the wildflower
meadow would, in fact, impact upon the wildlife on the site,
or have other environmental consequences on the site. The
Township has employed a Wildlife Expert who has prepared
a Report, which has been filed with the Township, indicating
that because the Township has not changed the wooded areas,
and because of the other activity going on around the Park,
in his opinion, there was no significant environmental impact
to what the Township is proposing to do. And, indicated that
Report is on file with the Clerk, and was available for your
review, and has already been sent to the Department of Environmental
Protection, Green Acres. The second criteria that we had
to do was to notify everybody within 200= so that the residents
could come forth with any comments they may have as to the
Environmental Impact of the proposed change. And that is
the real purpose for this meeting right nowCthe first part
of this meeting is, the proposed change in the Park design
as it impacts on the environmental issues, which were outlined
originally in 1991 and have been slightly modified for 1999.
And that is the specific issue that we have before us that
we=d be happy to entertain comments or answer questions on.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dorsey: All right, now everyone that comes up. Courtesy
would be bestCespecially since the Clerk=s Office has to
prepare this transcript as quickly as possible, the first
thing you must do is identify yourselfCname and address.
Then, you could begin by confining yourself to the issues
that Mr. Casey has just referred toCi.e., the Environmental
issue. That would be helpful. Then I believe he is going
to go into other issuesCafter we close the Public Hearing.
So, anyone that wants to speak as to the environmental issues,
please come forward, name, address, and any comment you wish
Mrs. Charlotte Wilson, 83 Woodbine Avenue, Budd Lake: I
just have a question on the soccer fields and the baseball
fields. How muchClike dirtCsince that=s slopey back thereCthat
slopes, and I would imagine it=s going to have to be level
because of fields. What does that do to how much dirt you=re
going to have to move around and, has there been anything
to determine as far as how that would effect drainage down
the hillClike toward the pond. Has that been looked at all
Mr. Casey: The answer is, AYes, it has been.@ The design
standards that have been involved in this developmentCandC
President Rattner: BobC
Mrs. Wilson: You need to be on here, I=m sorry.
Mr. Casey: The site has been designed with two retention
ponds so as to prevent storm water from migrating off the
site. The site has also been designed from environmental
standpoint that we have an on-site drainage system so that
the drain will go to these ponds and will recirculate that
water so that we will not have a problem because of the fertilizer,
etc. migrating off site, they=d be captured in these two
retention ponds and then our irrigation system will recycle
the water back on top of the existing playing fields. So,
the site was basically designed to capture as much as possible
any activity on the site and prevent it from migrating off
the site. Either downhill towards the lake, or downhill this
way, towards Turkeybrook and the South Branch. We have the
on-site storm-water designs which have been reviewed by the
Soil Conservation District, and basically, they=re in agreement
Mr. Dorsey: All right, anyone else? Mr. Bonte?
Mr. Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: Just a comment on what appears
to be happening to the Park here. It appears that we=ve gone
from an original plan which is really a low-intensity, non-scheduled,
lazy Saturday Afternoon-type park environment to a high schedule,
high intensity sports complex. Is that what the Council wishes
to do with a park that originally appeared to just have a
lot of Open Space, a place for people to go, relax, whatever
activities come to mind on a specific day, as opposed to
what appears to be, kind of into a scheduled high level event?
Mr. Dorsey: That=s a comment. Fine.
Mr. Bonte: No comments from anybody else?
Mr. Dorsey: Anyone else on the Environmental issues dealing
with the Park?
President Rattner: Okay, seeing nobody else, I=ll guess
we=ll close the Public Portion.
Mr. Dorsey: Excuse me, Mr. Casey, do you have any closing
Mr. Casey: I have no other comment.
Mr. Dorsey: So we understand we=re going to close the Public
Hearing on the Environmental issues, and wildlife. And that
is the information you need quickly from the Clerk=s Office.
Mr. Casey: Yes.
Mr. Dorsey: Okay, just say quicklyC
President Rattner: Okay, one final chance. Anybody else?
Mr. Bob Elms, Budd Lake: What are you going to do with the
water in the retention ponds in the Fall, Winter and Spring?
Mr. Casey: Of course the retention pond will also be a detention
pond, and it will be basically water retained outside at
all times. It is not anticipated in terms of the use of that
for recreational purposes, that is not on there at this point
in our schedule.
Mr. Elms: Yes, but what do you do in the winter time when
the detention ponds fill up? How do you go about getting
rid of the water? Right now, you=re planning on using it
for irrigation, but you=re not going to be irrigating in
the winter time.
Mr. Casey: The detention pond that=s near the site will
have an overflow channel which will flow down the hill. That
is being maintained. The detention pond in front will be
channeled into the stormwater system along the road we will
have control over discharge, so we will discharge to that
existing stormwater system there. (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Elms: So when you=re not irrigating, you will be discharging
through three inch pipes or whatever it calls?
Mr. Casey: That=s correct.
President Rattner: Thank you, Mr. Elms, anybody else?
Mr. Dan Nelson, Flanders: Good evening, Dan Nelson, Flanders.
Did the detention pond in the backCif I=m not mistaken, you
said that you=d serve to pick up some of the run-off from
the fieldsCfertilizersCand then did you say the over-flow
would go down toward Meyer=s Pond?
Mr. Casey: The issue that was raisedCthe Town will not use
the water for irrigation purposes.
Mr. Nelson: Uh-huh.
Mr. Casey: Yes, at that point, if we have a heavy rain,
etc., the pond will obviously fill up. If in fact it=s what=s
being used to draw down, there will be a spillway and it
will dischargeCthat will be a time when it=s a non-active
park so we shouldn=t be discharging anywhereCfertilizers,
etc. because they basically would be non-seasonal. During
the season we=ll be pumping up--back on the property.
Mr. Nelson: Okay. So it has been thought ofCthe discharge
of fertilizers, etc. Thank you.
President Rattner: Thank you. Anybody else?
Mr. David Pariseau, 7 Sunset Drive: On this planCyou=ve
added five soccer fields. Has anybody considered the environmental
impact of how many carsChow many more people that are taken
to this area? Has that been addressed? Or is that part of
Mr. Casey: The issue of the traffic isCbut I will discuss
that at the next portion of the Hearing.
Mr. Pariseau: Okay.
Mr. Casey: Green Acres standpoint, the park was always intended
to have a certain amount of activity.
Mr. Pariseau: Correct.
Mr. Casey: So the intensification of that activity, they
feel is within the original project application that was
made in =91. The issue that I hope to discuss with everybody
shortly is, we=ll review the traffic control, flows that
we had projected for this park.
Mr. Pariseau: Okay, that=s the second part of this? Okay.
Mr. Dorsey: All right, let=s just have the Record show that
Mr. Casey and every witness was referring to two maps. The
first map is entitled ATurkeybrook Park@ appeared in 1991,
and the second map is also entitled AMt. Olive Turkeybrook
Park@ I guess it is identified or dated 2001. So, the Record
will be clear, there are two maps, and you=ll want to include
with the transcript a copy of those maps so it will be understandable.
President Rattner: Okay, at this point, I don=t see anyone
else wishing to address this matter, so I=ll close the Public
Mr. Dorsey: You are closing the Public Hearing as to the
issues raised by Green Acres/DEP in connection with the Township=s
President Rattner: Okay, I=ll take a Motion to Close the
Mr. Sohl: So moved.
Mr. Guenther: Second.
President Rattner: Any discussion?
ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously
Mr. Casey: With the Chair=s permission, I=d like to spend
a few moments so I can explain, in some detail, the actual
proposal for Turkey Brook Park.
President Rattner: Sure.
Mr. Casey: Then we=ll get into the issues of traffic and
off-site storm water management, etc. because I know some
people are concerned with. What we have on the development
of Turkey Brook Park is, all the planning we=ve done for
the Park has been future full out development. It is not
anticipated there was funding available to build what you
see up here at this point in time. This is to be scheduled
in probably two, three programs, projects as money becomes
available. The proposal that we=re looking for in the short-term,
i.e., the year 2001 B2002, really, this central portion back
in hereCis fourCsix soccer fields, two volleyball fields,
a football fieldCin this area on the top, plus, the underground
facilities required for the future growth of the park. What
we=ve done is designed everything for the maximum development
to track the flowsCthe storm water flows, the water, the
sewer, etc. So that as the park is developing incrementally,
we can add on to the piping that=s in place. That=s why there=s
a little partCthe first fight of this park development is
an expensive fight because of that very issue of siting everything
for park development. Let me go and discussCfirst of all
if you go a little bit further on the issue of storm water
and sewer, everybody is aware of what=s happening. The storm
waterCthe park has a dividing line right hereCacrossCit flows
right about here, across the topCso we actually have two
sets of storm water systems. One will flow this way, one
will flow that way. In addition, we are picking u the storm
water that will flow along Flanders Road. There will be a
detention pond hereCalso a portion of that there will be
a retention pond where a certain amount of storm water retained
on the site. The same will go for the back here. The reason
for that retention portion is we intend to capture that water
and reuse that water for an outside irrigation system. The
water that the Township will retain for irrigation purposes
will come to a well located hereCbehind Rickland VillageCoff
siteCthere is an existing well there that was drilled in
=87, =88, which will come to the Township as the development
is completed, and that well will be used for irrigation.
We will not use water from the existing Goldmine System,
or any other systems on the top of the hill for irrigation
purposes. The site will have bathroom facilitiesCobviously
the pavilion, here and hereCabout four different locations.
This site will be connected to the sewer system, which is
place along Flanders Road. The domestic workCi.e. drinking
water on site will also come up from the water system that=s
in the road. Okay? So we separated the two water systemsCthe
primary water used on site, obviously, irrigation water,
will come from a separate well. It will not encroach at all
upon existing water. The two systems are designedCparticularly
this one along the front, to withstand a 100 year stormCwhich
we all know, we have a 100 year storm every three B four
yearsCbut, that=s the engineering calculation they use. It
is designed to contain here on siteCthat water will flow
100 year storm and then basically meter out excess flows
into the existing storm sewer that=s in the road. So, what
we=re doing, we=re capture the heavy flows then meter that
out when the rest of it flows through the system, as you
do with any on-site detention basin. We have constructed
this basin so that it=s basically going to be bermed aroundCtechnically
on SunsetCfor those that live on Sunset, we have a whole
series of intended berms along this portion of the site so
that the site will beCthere will be visible barrierCwe=re
actually putting these berms up six B seven feet here so
that, in fact any water that comes down here will not encroach
on any of the people on Sunset Drive. We have a lot of detailsCif
anybody wants to look at it.
Resident (from audience): What is the proposed life of that
President Rattner: Excuse meCwe can=t pick you upClet him
make his presentation and then you can get up and ask specific
Resident: I=m sorry.
Mr. Casey: Do you want me to answer it? (INAUDIBLE) If you
live on Sunset, looking out your back, youre not going to
see aCit will be a slope. One of the things that=s very confusing
about this plan (INAUBIDLE) In reference to the on-site trafficCwe
have done an analysis of the traffic flow on site. Again,
assuming the maximum development we=re talkingCso it=s not
going to happen short term. Our traffic analysis assumesCworst
case scenario, it=s a nice warm day in May, when soccer has
nine fields going, baseball has eight fields going, there
are some people playing tennis, some people playing basketball,
some people visitingCwe did a scenario based upon traffic
flows on this side on a Saturday in May which would be your
worst case. Based upon those traffic counts and what we did
is we actually doubled the number of people who come for
a team, how many cars would come if there are two teams playing.
You figure on a staggard arrangement where everybody wouldn’t
start/stop at the same time. Your start em in 15 minute increments,
etc. to spread it out. Based upon that, there is a traffic
crunch between 11:30 and 2:00. At that point in time you
have people who been in early in the morning and are now
leaving, and people are coming in so you have that turnover.
Because of that line of traffic that we are projecting ,
the engineers made a decision to basically widen it to provide
for a turn lane and to provide for acceleration and deceleration
lane up against the park. The reason being, this means that
someone is driving down the road, who does not want to go
into the park, instead of going this way will simply have
to keep on going. Likewise, the person going the other way,
there is a free flow. If you want to turn into the park and
your traveling from the Flanders area coming this way you
pull in to the right turn lane. If your coming this way from
Budd Lake, you drop in to the deceleration lane, and you
pull into the park. So the intent was to keep two lanes free
for traffic. To isolate the turning movements into two other
new lanes that we’re going build. So we are proposing
that the road will be widened to four lanes, we are proposing
in that widening install water which will accumulate and
cause that water to go into a detention pond so it will not,
basically, go across the road and flood the residents on
the other side of the road and we are trying to maintain,
as much as we can, traffic flow along the road given the
fact that when a field turnover occurs, i.e., this soccer
field is now 11:30 and you’ve got, I think, 34 cars
coming in and 34 cars going out two teams coming two teams
going, etc, etc..That in fact, that can happen without dramatically
impacting on the normal traffic flow along the road. That’s
been the design criteria that we used to be reviewed, by
the County traffic Engineer who basically feels that given
the scope of the development that it is a reasonable way
of attempting to contain that traffic because again, we are
dealing with traffic which will peak for about 3 hours a
week, which is Saturday morning when everything is built
out. The stormwater traffic, water and sewer. I think that
is basically enough of an open view at this point in time.
I’ll be happy to answer any question that anyone may
Mr. David Pariseau, 7 Sunset Drive: My question would be
to Mr. Dorsey as far as about the comment that the other
gentleman had about changing it from kind of an unorganized
sports park, to now, we have kind of a complex. Has that
been addressed? I was not a resident of the township[ when
the first plan came around. I moved here in 1994 so I guess
the question would be when would that be addressed. Was the
grant written to the unorganized sporting…
Mr. Dorsey: I think the initial grant was monies to acquire
the plan for development, and I would say that it is about
a year ago that the Township Council had a number of discussion
and debates as to whether or not they wanted to turn this
into an absolute first class recreational facility, with
essentially facilities for every sport their. Was. I believe
the Mayor’s thought was to centralize these athletic
activities at this particular facility rather than to have
them scattered throughout the Township for a number of reasons.
So I would say that implicitly the Township Council has approved
that going forward with a high intensity facility here rather
than spreading them one field here and one field there to
have one coordinated facility. That decision has been made
and has essentially been confirmed.
Mr. Sohl: I think it’s just worth mentioning perhaps
for the record
Mr. Guenther: I differ a little bit from that evaluation.
I was a member of the original Turkey Brook Committee, there
were other discussions that went on. The main motivation
for converting this in to a more intensive sports facility
was because the soccer fields were lost through the construction
of the middle school. I think were all agreed that the members
of the original members of the Turkey Brook Committee we
wanted a more passive use as per the original scheme. Then
the B & H property across the way was acquired. The Olympus
group originally came in I believe, correct me if I am wrong
I don’t know if Peter Duran is here. That they were
looking at that as to develop for the soccer field. Because
Turkey Brook was going to left accordance with to the 1991
plan. They determined that the B & H property was to
hilly. That a more appropriate use for fields and sports
facilities was Turkey Brook. I reluctantly went along with
it. I live in the development as you all know I live down
on Carson Road, not as close as you are, and I prefer to
see it that way. I reluctantly went along because of the
other dyer need that this town has for recreation facilities
that it has not had. I don’t think with all do respect
to Mr. Dorsey, I don’t think the discussion directly
came up about centralizing facilities. There are other pieces
of property that the Township owns where talked has occurred
regarding developing those for other athletic fields. One
specific that I am thinking was the Simsburg property which
still sits there and no plans have been developed for, on
the other side of Budd Lake. I don’t think there is
any property in the Flanders area, but that could happen
in the future. I don’t think the centralization was
the basic driving force. I think it was a matter of necessity
of the need for the recreation facilities to answer that
RESOLUTIONS B NON CONSENT
1. A Resolution awarding a contract for the preliminary
grading of Turkey Brook Park
PUBLIC PORTION ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS
COUNCIL COMMENTS ON INDIVIDUAL RESOLUTIONS
Motion made for adjournment. All in Favor, none Opposed.
The Meeting was adjourned at
Steven W. Rattner
I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount
Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true
and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened
meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on
May 29, 2001
LISA M. LASHWAY
Mount Olive Township Clerk